Discussion Of The Item Round-Up

[Darigan]

So Mur wanted discussion about the newest announcement and the item round up.Any thoughts, opinions, or complaints?

Edited August 11, 2010 by Darigan

[Curiose]

Well... I don't have any qualms, opinions, or anything of that sort on the subject seeing as how the only items I have are coins, and they're not enough to even make the 10-count needed to be returned.

[Tarquinus]

I'm very happy about it. I think it is a great idea, and I salute Mur for doing it.

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

It is indeed a great idea! Thank you Mur for the the items, I have waited a long while to have them.

[Kafuuka]

Ambiguous. The one time deal he offers is very attractive. Being rewarded a custom 'powerful' item seems more like a reward than an attempt to stop people from hoarding. Implicitly this also sets the price for a WP as between one and three items.
I'm curious how restricted the role related keyword will turn out and how powerful translates.

[Udgard]

One thing for sure, powerful here will mean way more powerful than most of the stuff currently lying around, since I haven't made any special-powered items ever, and neither have Tengri/Z, AFAIK. I think they will come with either special abilities that can be used right away, or description-only abilities that can be used to sway the storyline.

[Blackwoodforest]

I haven't understood this in complete, does this affect only the mentioned players which hold more then 10+ items or all?

[Shadowseeker]

All. Everyone who gives 3 items to Mur gets a custom item.

[Yrthilian]

hmm well i hope there will be some exceptions to the rule

As i llok at it the kingship items take 5 slots of the items
Yes i have a lot of items but they are for good reasons

I can give up 9 items yes but i will still be over the 10 item limit
so what i am wondering is will the kingship players be allowed to have
the 10 item limit increase to include their kingship items

I am sure it is not really an issue but just putting it out there

Anyway now i need to skeap with mur on the matter of my items.

[phantasm]

my question is what is considered an item. I know raw mats and rescources are out. But what about things like trophy's or other less valuable items that were made more then one of?

[Blackwoodforest]

I thought about the (UTOB)trophy as well...

[Udgard]

"excluded raw materials, the recent ones"

Does this mean only recent raw materials are excluded?

[Lifeline]

seeing that the postman has lots of the old raw materials i supposed with recent mur ment the new guild material items.
the real raw material is over half a year old now that shouldnt be "recent"

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

[quote name='Udgard' date='12 August 2010 - 04:57 AM' timestamp='1281585461' post='65859']
One thing for sure, powerful here will mean way more powerful than most of the stuff currently lying around, since I haven't made any special-powered items ever, and neither have Tengri/Z, AFAIK. I think they will come with either special abilities that can be used right away, or description-only abilities that can be used to sway the storyline.
[/quote]

Just thought I'd make a note here:
Tengri brought into existence items you the people of MD created yourselves. Some gained some fantastical things due to their own initiative, others mundane things. It really depends how much you know about what is already out there. I don't think powerful here will mean anymore powerful than most of what is already out there unless as a matter of course items with death scripts on them etc are coming into existence - which I doubt.

Z

[Muratus del Mur]

about the items.. i have the option to release them automated on a temporary basis using the thing i tested on wasps totem. That means to have a stock of items and anyone to grab anything, first come first served, but for a limited period (time limit still to be added). That will keep them recycled and more dynamic, but will kill trading. IT will also keep them important for longer because there will be a lot more active items and less lost on inactive accounts over time.

An other option is to gift them to people based on their role, that will place the items back in game but there is no warranty those that get them wont give them away to end up in the hands of hoarders.

I could also organize an auction for them, where the "price" will consist of reasons. Whoever gives the best reason why to give a specific item to him/her will get it. (no actual cost). Reason has to be based on actual player activity so far, _established_ role, but also plans for future and so.

Since i fear i wont be able to actually do this myself, i am just opening the discussion here to decide what is best to do, then probably someone of you will take care of the actuall changes, be it auction organizer, role hunting season or rendril to assign the items to the automated system.

I think there are 100 items in total so far.

[Udgard]

Does the 100 items to be re-distributed include raw materials? And if yes, is the 100 count the unique item count, or total item count (including duplicates)?

I personally thing the non-raw mats can be redistributed with the gift/auction or other one-time re-give away, but the raw mats can be distributed via the wasp-totem mechanics. but with a set timer for decay (item will disappear from the inventory on a set date)

[Jubaris]

making the items have a time limit would be annoying to the active ones.

perhaps set a timeline of, let's say one month after an account becomes inactive for the items to re-distribute themselves.

Auction of reasons is attractive to me. if you don't have time to do this, I would like to give a chance to Burns to prove his 'unbiasedness'.

[Yrthilian]

Regard as Mur said Rendril will be tasked with that job if that option was to happen

Time limit for materials could work i suppose or if you wanted to use the items in
conjuction with the item creators in game you could have the material burn up and be sent to
a shop of sort with limited stock for player to buy the materials from with silver/coins

you can use thoes coins to make payment to the coin cert thing you did for the item return
and later use them for something else i am sure.

the other items that could be gifted that are non raw materials well that is a hard call
i for one would love to get my hand on some of the items i wanted from creation a while back
especialy some of the Golemus items in they are in the list.

[apophys]

It would be nice for more of the general population to get items and play with them. However, people are greedy and won't let go easily, so here's my solution:


By default, the items in Mur's holdings should be distributed based on activity (something based on active days modified by last login date) and current item count. I.e. pick the people who don't have any items yet, and give the most active of them 1 item each.
Also, put a countdown timer on each of these items (like 2 or 3 months per person; alts included in the definition of "person"). When the time's up, it gets redeployed in the above fashion (to the most active person with no items). The countdown interval should be cut in half for every other item held at the moment when acquiring the specific item (preventing buildup).

This would encourage a background level of trade, for people not to lose their items (the countdown timer is not reset when trading among alts, so it is real trade, even if only back and forth). Also, items disappearing on inactive people would be something not to worry about; when the time's up, they'll be back in the system automatically. And truly active people who have only one item would still get another one (or keep their current one) if the timer reaches 0.


In other words, create a system that seeks uniformity and is self-sustaining, counteracting human greed.
Being a hoarder (up to about 7 items) is still possible, but would require a lot of work to keep up or they'll disappear.


Of course, you can do whatever starting conditions you like, sending by reasons, role, etc, but that would eventually become a drag to keep doing, so it's not sustainable permanently. I hope my suggestion has what it takes to be permanent.

Edited September 2, 2010 by apophys

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

Seeing as people pay WPs to have custom items created and such, I really don't see an automated timer on all items as an option. In fact that seems abhorrent to me.

[i]"An other option is to gift them to people based on their role, that will place the items back in game but there is no warranty those that get them wont give them away to end up in the hands of hoarders."[/i]

I like this, always have, and frankly if they sell their items off to a collector and then complain then I have no sympathy. This in addition to some random distribution here and there. I say have an anonymous item creator/distributor that doesnt come up in the logs.

[i]If you wanted to use the items in conjuction with the item creators in game you could have the material burn up and be sent to a shop of sort with limited stock for player to buy the materials from with silver/coins[/i] - Really like that for standard raw materials - although might be problematic for the gathering guilds. If raw materials are only to come from guilds now then that makes this idea mostly defunct as the 'shop' already exists so to speak.

On the grander scheme; A limit on the number of items an account can hold may help, but as crafters etc ask you for other items (with your wp) to make a singular item this means often you have to carry/collect a bunch of items you don't want or need in order to make this one item which makes things a bit of a pain(to make an item I have in mind atm for example I will need at least 3 other items with a wp and I will have to carry these until I can get the item made). Then you have to also consider "non-entity" items like medals and certificates. So, perhaps 4 sections to your items list: a limit of 5 in the collecting to make other items section, a money section, a medals and certificates section and a limited normal items section.

Z

[apophys]

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' timestamp='1283433027' post='67564']
Seeing as people pay WPs to have custom items created and such, I really don't see an automated timer on all items as an option. In fact that seems abhorrent to me.
[/quote]

Of course, not every item needs to have a timer. Custom items should not; I agree. But it seems fair that items given automatically, for free, can have timers on them.
In hindsight I see I did not make it clear that timers should only be added to free-given items.

Edited September 2, 2010 by apophys

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

It doesn't seem fair at all to me. The knock on effect of doing that is massive. For one thing you have just made most items worthless - if you can't hold onto it and it just disappears for anyone to get then why would anyone pay for it? If it has no 'real' action other than existing then it can't be actually used anyway in which case what is the point of having it at all now?

When you say for free, I assume you mean that the items didnt come from a wp, but many people have personalised items that came for free. Look at Asterdai's pirate chest example - once that gets onto a pirate account it could be wholely tied up with the individual and their role. Look at things like the staff of syndria which is wholely tied up with an individual character and which came free.

It's also completely unrealistic - not that that matters so much at all, but living in a world where everything I pick up and pocket disappears after a while seems pretty stupid to me even in a fantasy world.

Z

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' timestamp='1283433027' post='67564']

On the grander scheme; A limit on the number of items an account can hold may help, but as crafters etc ask you for other items (with your wp) to make a singular item this means often you have to carry/collect a bunch of items you don't want or need in order to make this one item which makes things a bit of a pain(to make an item I have in mind atm for example I will need at least 3 other items with a wp and I will have to carry these until I can get the item made). Then you have to also consider "non-entity" items like medals and certificates. So, perhaps 4 sections to your items list: a limit of 5 in the collecting to make other items section, a money section, a medals and certificates section and a limited normal items section.

Z
[/quote]


I like that idea it would make things easer to manage too and for kingship have a 5th item for kinghip items

[dst]

I personally don't like items BUT I find them very useful unless they have a timer on them.
I agree, something needs to be done about the "lost items" aka the one on the accounts that are abandoned. Maybe we can apply the same rules that apply to avys to the items: you haven't logged in for 6 months(or less in case of items)...your items get re-distributed. How? I fine the method used so far quite good: random (yes, ok...maybe with some checks as: this is an alt, he/she doesn't get one or this guy has 10 items already...).

And yes, maybe a cap should be applied to the number of items someone can hold.

However, I would put a timer on the PUBLIC items: the ones that were supposed to return to Wasp Totem and which never did...(those items are the worst prodigal sons I have ever seen!!!).

[Fyrd Argentus]

Raw materials should have a shelf life, if not used should go back for redistribution. Random interval appearance at the Wasp's Totem might be a great equalizer there.

I propose a slimmed down version of what apophys said for permanent items. Pass the permanent items out to people with zero items, letting them pick their item, starting with the player with most active days first and working down.

If claims dry up before items, start in on people who (now) have one item, and work down the list.

That would be a pure administrative function, no judgement needed, but it does allow for people to pick items appropriate to their role. Many of us, myself included, would volunteer to facilitate that.