Types of sale threads, Auctions vs Offers

[Rumi]

[quote name='Mighty Pirate' timestamp='1307711466' post='86029']
[s]11 gc from GG[/s]

Sorry, I withdraw my bid. I just want it to stay within GG - there is no need for a GG internal bid contest.
[/quote]


[quote name='Juni0r' timestamp='1307708891' post='86027']
[s]Fine 11gcs[/s]

On second thought I sold this item to you, so it would just be counter productive so rejoice GG you can have it.
[/quote]

Just an example... No surprise there is confusion as to who is currently the top bidder for the GG glaive.


I've been somewhat involved in the central market for the past few weeks (with little success buying or selling anything, I might add ) and I notice pretty frequently people are withdrawing their offers on threads where the creatures or items are sold in an auction format.

Anyone who has ever been to a real auction knows that you cannot withdraw your bid after making it. When you make a bid, you commit on the spot to making a purchase. The only way you're off the hook is if someone else bids higher.

From time to time, people bid prices up and then withdraw their offers when they're the top slot. To me, this says that bidder was never interested in making the purchase in the first place.

I'd like to see WTS threads elaborated as one of two types of sales, an auction sale or an offer sale.

In an auction sale, when you make a bid, you are committed to the purchase and the seller is committed to the sale, so long as there is not an unmet reserve. There should be very few if any edited posts in an auction besides the initial sale post. If a person makes a bid on multiple creatures, expecting to win one of them, they need to have the gold to back up their bids. Auctions would go for a certain length of time, and could have the possibility of an early sale at the sellers discretion (similar to ebay's 'buy it now' or 'make offer'). Highest bids would be added to the initial post.

In an offer sale, the seller lists what is for sale and can list a desired sale price if they so choose. People can make offers and withdraw them as they so choose. There is no commitment to purchase until the final deal is struck and the trade has begun. A seller can choose to list the best offers on the initial post, and sell to the highest offer, or can choose not to sell at all.

Advantages to seller:

Auction - ensures a sale, requires little time and energy other than listing bid updates, buyers can't back out

Offer - gives more opportunity for negotiation, option not to sell


Advantages to buyer:

Auction - opportunity for bargain purchase

Offer - option to back out, easier to negotiate non-cash payments


I know this would make a simple working system more complicated, but it would also give the seller an option to remove all the back and forth bidding and withdrawing. Basically, the offer sale would be the status quo and the auction sale would be a new market form that seller could use at their discretion.

Open to comments.

Note of admission:

I have myself withdrawn a winning offer from a sale. I'm not pointing any fingers, just suggesting a way to improve the system.

[Seigheart]

I support this completely.

Especially when bids are made in events (BHC Pool) and are withdrawn, it's incredibly rude to do so.

I realize that there aren't any ways to force someone to uphold their bid, but gaining a bad reputation as a bad trader will ensue. The only time someone should be able to withdraw their bid is if the next bidder hasn't bid yet.

There IS a button to Post, review your submission before you submit it.

~Seigheart

[Fyrd Argentus]

Also, in a true auction, there should be a reserve or minimum bid set, and there should be some mention of time of closing so a bid doesn't just hang in limbo forever with no action.

There are other sorts of offers that can be used, we should not try to restrict it to these two, but the person offering something for sale NEEDS to explain the terms of their offer - whatever they might be.

[Kyphis the Bard]

However, I would argue that in certain cases it is better to withdraw the bid.

Myself, I have withdrawn from bidding (not withdrawing a bid) because I had made a deal with one of the other bidders, and we where bidding as a group.
Another instance would be if the environment changes (for example BHC getting announced, or its price increasing), thus changing the way that your funds are allocated. In this instance, it would be far ruder to let your bid stand if you can't actually pay, and is actually a sign of good trading to let the seller know asap.
A further instance is when the, purchase is for a specific cause (ie, the two examples you cited) and you are requested to stop bidding, due to either group consensus changing or development of a new plan, or some other change that results in your bid being a bad move instead. Again, leaving a bid in place that you no longer intend to fulfill, regardless of whether you intended to initially or not, would be quite rude and bad trading practice. It is much more polite to let the seller know asap that the situation has changed.
And there are even further extensions of these instances that I won't go into right now...

Also, eBay does have policies that allow for backing out of bids. Just generally not before the bidding ends (except in special cases).

[- Jason Vorhees -]

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' timestamp='1307748615' post='86048']
Also, eBay does have policies that allow for backing out of bids. Just generally [b]not before the bidding ends[/b] (except in special cases).
[/quote]

Any offer of any nature, whether in auction or direct sale, the bidder / potential buyer has the right to cancel / retract their bids IF the seller does not include regulations regarding allowed / or not to perform a cancellation of an offer in the thread.
However, there are unwritten rules relating to ethics and trust when a bidder / potential buyer to cancel bids when the seller closed the trade, and this thing is very important for both sides in the future.
This is especially very important for the seller because the bidder / potential buyer did not get any loss while on the other hand a lot of consideration from seller related to their products or plan to result from the sale.

So I think the most important in the future in the trade, whatever its form both auctions and direct sales, a seller must include rules and regulations with the most clearly in his thread (if possible without changes during the process of trade).


[color="#8B0000"][i][size="2"]in the name of machete,
-v-[/size][/i][/color]

[Pipstickz]

No.

I will not agree with nor conform to this. If people wish to withdraw bids, that's their business, I will NEVER force somebody to pay me if they withdraw their bid. I am not greedy enough to care if I get a bit less, or even if I am, I can simply choose not to sell. If I really wanted to sell something and even [i]I[/i] did not know the top bid at a certain time, I would certainly put the effort in and find out, because it isn't that much effort, honestly.

People who DO care about this sort of thing can follow Grido's example and just ban people from trading with them, even if that's ridiculously strict and unnecessary, in my own opinion. It's your business what you do with your property.

Apologies if this offends you, but I detest this notion.

[- Jason Vorhees -]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1307766000' post='86051']
No.

I will not agree with nor conform to this. If people wish to withdraw bids, that's their business, I will NEVER force somebody to pay me if they withdraw their bid. I am not greedy enough to care if I get a bit less, or even if I am, I can simply choose not to sell. If I really wanted to sell something and even [i]I[/i] did not know the top bid at a certain time, I would certainly put the effort in and find out, because it isn't that much effort, honestly.

People who DO care about this sort of thing can follow Grido's example and just ban people from trading with them, even if that's ridiculously strict and unnecessary, in my own opinion. It's your business what you do with your property.

Apologies if this offends you, but I detest this notion.
[/quote]

Ah.. I agree completely with this, this post was quite describe.
Therefore we must always remain vigilant and be careful on the people (especially the bidder) [b]who are only concerned with their own business[/b].

[Chewett]

Yeah, Until there is a rule whereby removing your bid isnt allowed, people will still be allowed to do so, However if certain people want to impose such rules, its entirely up to them.

There are some people for me, who i just wouldnt trade with, because i have seen they like to scam people, Im not going to try and impose that rule on everyone. Similarly if someone removes their bid in one of my sales, i wouldnt let them bid again in that sale.

[Liberty4life]

bah... there is simple solution for this problem, ya ppl who make auctions should make dutch type of auctions, meaning ya start with very high price and then ya start lowering it, meaning sale would have only one bid, and as soon bid is made deal is done, and there wouldnt be any misunderstandings since bidder has no time to lose his money somewhere else while in this english auction type, after highest bid is made there is still a lot of time left to see if there is gonna be any higher bid, and in that time who knows wot can happen to highest bidder and his money