Glaistig

informal observations so far:
are politics mostly the bulk of this game? (from reading thread about power balances) players seem to mostly engage in the world by thinking philosophically about its philosphy I can see why I preferred a game world based more on the cut and dry mechanics (puzzles, combat system, game story) than such an involved roleplay/political system. too much to think about, a little abstract or too involving for an outsider to feel like delving into. so MD is more a simulation than a game for simple entertainment. mechanics are tailored towards simulation of political power, roleplaying than providing incentives to reach game goals/benchmarks (exp points for lvling up, accomplishments, etc.) "a true roleplaying game".. blergh. :P keywords to investigate:
depletion killing [spoiler]Glai derails in a thought exercise:
how would I change it? I don't know yet if you removed the roleplaying from MD, what would you have left? a little bit of controlled roleplaying would be fine, to add an element of gameplay above game mechanics. but, how do you control roleplaying? it spirals out of your hands and develops its own life, doesn't it? what is the ultimate ambition in MD?
(of course, in this version it's to play another life, create your own character, so there is no definite endgoal. playing the character is the endgoal. but in a ver. of MD with the roleplaying element reduced, what would be the ambition in MD? forming bonds while testing combat play (card game) while exploring the story while having limited roles? a community based on a love for puzzles and innovation and exploring, while they.. while they what? build a mini-realm? protectors/adepts. hmmm not sure yet. are quests good? what if quests were more moderated, built by select few (rather than all) for the players to have objectives?) roleplaying developed naturally, wars would develop naturally, having heros/public interest figures would naturally draw interest size is a limitation; in the end, I don't know if MD could go beyond being a small realm, or even if it got bigger, it would require a lot of intensive attention having guilds would be interesting. creating characters (npcs) for players to interact with and build a world story would be interesting. but how would you avoid the development of active roleplaying and the consequent politicking? maybe some players love and cherish the politicking, the dynamism built into it, the building and interaction of their own world the magic of code / interaction with the game itself  :) what is the goal in normal mmos? you fight monsters, you level up, you build alliances and guilds to fight boss monsters (potentially shaping the world?) and you do party quests to achieve an objective. sometimes some pvp for competition. classes draw some interest with specific skills assigned to each class (MD's principles underexploited here? what are creative skills mdfolk could have? gathering, spells--what spells? creating dungeons, changing maps for new areas to explore, new abilities (creating monsters/eggs, events, changing relationships)...) would require constant innovation. too exhausting I can always rely on MD to pull me into a mind trip, get me thinking  :) even if the tracks my mind takes wouldn't be agreeable to most players/others.[/spoiler]

You might see me pop in once in  a while, but I don't plan on doing much more than that. I'm quite busy these days!
After six years, I'm mostly curious to see where the game has gone, where it is now, and what its fate is.. not necessarily to be an active player.
I never really thought I would, but I'm pursuing software development now. As I told someone, one of the things I liked about MD aside from the community was how it demonstrated the creative magic (world-building) that can be made through code. So maybe thinking of software development reminded me of this game.
 
So, I have a couple questions for you, current players.
I heard this game is stagnating. What would you do to revitalize it? Say I'm a player who hasn't played for six years. I have no creatures, and little idea of how the game is played now. What are your suggestions for getting back into the game and learning more about the current MD world? What are the things I should pay attention to in this game world? This can be based on your gameplay style. This is what I see myself doing, the few times I may be around:
reading dst's blog catching up with chewett reading the occasional MD forum post building up my creatures again following people's suggestions to observe current events ideally, gathering opinions, thoughts and impressions about where the game is going maybe doing a quest or two maybe make informal observations here In the past I was a heated player because I was so wrapped up and invested in the game. Now it's mostly curiosity that drives me, and I have the necessary aesthetic distance and detachment to enjoy myself on MD casually. So, I look forward to poking around MD to kill my boredom once in a rare while.
 
Well, so now you know. If you see me, say hello :) edit: it's probably more like 5 years but the # doesn't really matter, does it? :shrug:

I have around 160 Active days in MD. I joined around January/February time though had to take a month or two out of playing.

No, I had never played an RPG like this (where you actively role play) though, if you have a grasp of language, it's rather easy to learn and adapt to, I feel. :)

Run, you fool.

I heard this game is stagnating. What would you do to revitalize it?
Lack of long-term stuff to compete in with your peers is missing. Hopefully torch will help with that, and maybe statless tourneys, but there needs to be competitive stuff outside combat too.
I don't think big number of quests are a solution because that's only for the moment pleasure, some continuity needs to exist like it used to be with Adventure Log (or it seemed to be that way, maybe it wasn't in truth)
 
Say I'm a player who hasn't played for six years. I have no creatures, and little idea of how the game is played now. What are your suggestions for getting back into the game and learning more about the current MD world?
and
Say I'm a player who hasn't played for six years. I have no creatures, and little idea of how the game is played now. What are your suggestions for getting back into the game and learning more about the current MD world?
The lack of competitive long-term stuff goes in your favor :D There is no race, you won't miss out on anything if you don't collect resources you never heard about... If you're into combat raise some creatures, talk with people, check forums for new interesting stuff and do what you feel like doing, you will pick up new stuff on your own soon enough.
 
A solution? It's hard to generalize, can you please tell what are you interested in doing in MD? In AL you were a Necro spy, there's still room for that kind of gameplay :))
You mentioned you liked creative aspect of MD - there is still much room for that, albeit less fulfilling with less amount of people around?
Anything else, writing, art, maltreating newbies, etc.? :)

Firstly, welcome you back! I'm sure much will have changed around the place, though you are sure to see faces you recognise, so make sure you say hello! (That would be my first "to-do" to a newb)
 
Now, how to start...perhaps point by point? Yes, that seems suitable.

 
I would not say the game itself is stagnating, more the activity within in. Whilst the game still progresses and has it's loyal followers -- and a few new ones here and there -- the activity of those followers within MD dwindles. Most now stay rooted at the GoE, fighting and grinding. There are still a few occasions where activity picks up, but this is usual due to either chaos (death, slander, ill will, etc) or pre-organised events/happenings (MD Birthday, " Story Makers' " quests, etc).
 
Working out how to battle this is hard as we would need to determine why people's activity is becoming stagnant. Is it due to laziness? Because the game is turning more towards fighting than RP? Because people simply don't want to RP? Because there aren't enough quests that make others run around like headless chickens? The list is endless.
 
I (emphasise on I as it's my opinion) believe that the appearance of stagnation is due to less players. There is no longer hundreds of players all playing at the same time, instead there is 30-40. Out of those 30-40 only a handful are "active" enough to run around, do things, make noise...make the place seem alive.
 
So yes, in short, I believe that there is little we can do at the moment until we start getting more people engrossed in MD. :)
 

 
I would suggest (in order):

Speak to everyone - Get to know players, new and old. A lot will have changed in 6 years and you can't expect to know it all yourself. Besides, it's always nice to make new friends! Get involved - Take part in events and quests, perhaps even make your own. Don't shy away or just choose to read about it later. Some of the best ways (i've found) of making friends and learning new things is by getting involved with everything and anything.  Read, read, read - Read everything. Old forum posts, new forum posts, blogs, adventure logs, creature details, personal papers, announcements...there is a lot of knowledge and help to be found if only people were to read a little more than what's right in front of them. And finally

 
Much of what I wrote above applies to this, I feel. Read, read, read, speak to everyone and get involved. From doing that you are likely to learn everything you need. I know that it worked well enough for me, and I was starting off as a brand new player, with no experience.
 
Though, some of it will come down to your own personality and perseverance, of course. :)

Welcome back Glaistig! I've only read about you in the forums but you seemed to be quite the character back in the day. :D

You may also want to read Aethon's articles as he is a very active new player that has breathed some new life into MDA.  :)

As for your questions:
1) Small daily free style RP or just social gatherings, as they can help newcomers get a grip on the realm (or at least the combat system, depends on what they ask and talk about) so long as they are in easily accessible places and the people taking part remain open. Big RP events and quests are good for shaking off the stagnation for the older players for a little while and gives something to talk about during the gatherings. However, interesting big RP events or quests need time to come up with.
2) Go to the Gazebo of Equilibrium and greet everybody. It's the center of many things currently and there is most likely to be someone awake and sparring there who could tell you about the latest events or give you some advice on combat, so long as you ask.
3) Pay attention to as many details (announcements, new forum threads, talking with people) as possible and make sure to have at least one run around the whole realm whenever you log in.

I didn't read all of it but it certainly seems interesting. A little more interesting than MD was in the prior days I visited it. I wish I had more time to check it out but I probably, most highly likely don't.
I guess some things have gone on in recent times.

Well, the LHO part is interesting. I think it's a bit high-commitment as was brought up, and has opportunities to fall through on some occasions, but MD has a way of maintaining high commitment in players while they last. The other issue is the amount of LHOs that will be needed so the attempt doesn't completely fall apart. You should get recruiting.. you can always scale back once you see that you have enough quality LHOs. But if you have too little, you risk the chance of entropy wreaking havoc on everything. However, overall, I think it's a good idea. It's a change, and something to try if you want to reel in more players.

The real-life challenges is also a change that you can try, and I wouldn't be entirely against introducing it. However, I don't know if I personally would pin so much hope on it. It's novel and has merit, and can change the game, but I wouldn't make it the pinwheel of the game, even if you integrate it with the game and motivational system. As a new player, I don't know if I would be so keen to be spending time in real life doing these things as part of the game. Is it as fun as a fully-fleshed ingame system? Is it entertaining? The magic lies in fantasy.. not that there isn't merit in introducing real life into the game, but I would consider it another aspect. Not the salvaging remedy, as was the rpc system years ago.

My personal opinion is to work on the ingame system. Fix the story mode, fix in-game puzzles and tests of wit and logic, fix principles or whatever they were called and battle fights and the combat system. Work on something that can truly work with all of those, community-wise or merit-rewarding, some final spin I can't visualize. Adding features, such as the irl one suggested above.. may only exacerbate the existing mismatched wonky systems that remain uncomplete by adding one more feature to the hodgepodge. However.. I haven't been here all this time, so I'm being pretty egotistic by offering my opinion. I'm sure Mur has heard this countless times.

MagicDuel may never reach perfection, or completion, but it's good to see it's still kicking a couple years down the line. If one thing never changes, it's that MD keeps on changing, and it is a little interesting to see how it evolves and how the game takes shape and continues to live despite all my misgivings (once I've given up on my attachments, it's not so horrible to witness). Mur must have some drive. It will be fun to watch how the extended liberties to lho-figures kicks out. Not that I'll be watching.

Hmm, yes, he spelled pyramid incorrectly, as well as necessarily, and occasionally forgot to separate his clauses with commas, yes, many flaws. His paragraph breaking was inconsistent, might I say, and he keeps capitalizing some words inappropriately.
No, Ren. >_> I'm very impressed by the creativity in his thoughts, and I think his theory could well
be correct, although I'm not saying I'm thoroughly convinced by it. In any case, I wouldn't be a good judge.
Why you! Provoking me to reply.. I need to get back to homework.

Hypocritical? Me? I demand something to back up your claims!
The suggestions of late are getting more and more improbable.. but they're funny.
Or are they actually not improbable? Am I not as addicted as I thought? People don't actually do these things, right? Right?? ...

Haha, I really liked reading all of this. Well, I didn't read all of it, but yeah.

Reading my own response made me realize an interesting point, which pertains more to the nitpicky issue about roleplayers, in that I disliked them for exemplifying aspects of my own playing style in MD--the whole spin and drum of roleplaying in that desire for social acknowledgement, for the feeling of acceptance in a community you esteem. Seeing how this subordinated the other aspects of the game, literally, in fact, in terms of game development, and otherwise in the attitude of players toward the game, allowed me to see how it was shallow. Though I did not explicitly relate it to myself, it did lead to a sense of dissatisfaction and searching. Why was I playing MD, after all? It took a bit of internalizing to process the changes in the game, but it eventually led me to quit.

There is certainly some legitimacy to roleplaying in a game. It added another dimension to MD, and it doesn't mean that players necessarily don't appreciate the more traditional aspects of its novel gameplay, battle mechanics, story, and player structure. Technically, roleplaying can be a creative exercise, and Mur's attempt to integrate it into part of the game system was another nod to MD's tradition of innovation. Isn't it natural to enjoy social interaction?--why not make a part of gameplay? I can see why other players can and will defend MD as it is now. But--it's not my thing. It requires too much suspension of disbelief for a shallow product, and I value more intellectual concepts in games than the social and dynamic alone. Yes, I enjoyed being a part of MD's community, but only while I liked that community for what it was. It's also not true that every community has its bickering and politics and drama, as some new players like to say; old MD's culture was very different from what it is now. I miss it.

For further comment on the deal of roleplaying in games and MD's development, I would like to add that there is a [b]balance[/b] (eh, eh? principles!) between chaos/imagination and rote/order. MD is so innovative by part because of Mur's inclination to experiment. But as he is adding in all these elements and trying all these things, the game becomes more complex, unmanageable, and gnarly--kind of a bit like reality, eh? There is a value to that. A mini-society, how interesting, how cool. But it wears down after a while--how interesting is it when that's what you're acquainted with in real life, anyway?

You can roleplay without going as far as asterisks, hence the normal sense communicated by "roleplaying games." Games by principle provide something different through rules, limits and simplification [b]in addition[/b] to fantasy and imagination: an alternate reality. I no longer see MD as an alternate reality (and I would rather see the aspect of roleplay and social play in MD executed in a more formal way). Mur has managed a bit by making his vision executable thus far. MD is a significant achievement. But I view it as unbalanced (in the end, though, since I'm disengaged from MD, I find that OK in a way--it's a compensation for MD's nature).

Finally, even ignoring personal preferences in gameplay, whenever significant change occurs and a new culture takes place, it's natural that older players miss what they are familiar with and feel displaced by newer players. In addition, some changes are bound to dissatisfy any one player. It depends on a host of factors, but I guess this is what Mur would call the inevitable loss of players.

Anyway, this is just a personal observation, provided to supplement my more mundane response. It looks like I've returned to my rambling habits. ;) From this you might get a better sense of what kind of person I represented in the previous MD community on the threshold of change, when it was dealing with the new roleplaying issue and game development. I used to be an incendiary anti-RP rabbler in the "stubborn old vet" school. As for why I still have some attachment to MD and bother replying to threads like this and visiting, it's the memories of good times that keep me going. :) Not MD as it is now; it's not mine any more.

Haha, I really liked reading all of this. Well, I didn't read all of it, but yeah.

Reading my own response made me realize an interesting point, which pertains more to the nitpicky issue about roleplayers, in that I disliked them for exemplifying aspects of my own playing style in MD--the whole spin and drum of roleplaying in that desire for social acknowledgement, for the feeling of acceptance in a community you esteem. Seeing how this subordinated the other aspects of the game, literally, in fact, in terms of game development, and otherwise in the attitude of players toward the game, allowed me to see how it was shallow. Though I did not explicitly relate it to myself, it did lead to a sense of dissatisfaction and searching. Why was I playing MD, after all? It took a bit of internalizing to process the changes in the game, but it eventually led me to quit.

There is certainly some legitimacy to roleplaying in a game. It added another dimension to MD, and it doesn't mean that players necessarily don't appreciate the more traditional aspects of its novel gameplay, battle mechanics, story, and player structure. Technically, roleplaying can be a creative exercise, and Mur's attempt to integrate it into part of the game system was another nod to MD's tradition of innovation. Isn't it natural to enjoy social interaction?--why not make a part of gameplay? I can see why other players can and will defend MD as it is now. But--it's not my thing. It requires too much suspension of disbelief for a shallow product, and I value more intellectual concepts in games than the social and dynamic alone. Yes, I enjoyed being a part of MD's community, but only while I liked that community for what it was. It's also not true that every community has its bickering and politics and drama, as some new players like to say; old MD's culture was very different from what it is now. I miss it.

For further comment on the deal of roleplaying in games and MD's development, I would like to add that there is a [b]balance[/b] (eh, eh? principles!) between chaos/imagination and rote/order. MD is so innovative by part because of Mur's inclination to experiment. But as he is adding in all these elements and trying all these things, the game becomes more complex, unmanageable, and gnarly--kind of a bit like reality, eh? There is a value to that. A mini-society, how interesting, how cool. But it wears down after a while--how interesting is it when that's what you're acquainted with in real life, anyway?

You can roleplay without going as far as asterisks, hence the normal sense communicated by "roleplaying games." Games by principle provide something different through rules, limits and simplification [b]in addition[/b] to fantasy and imagination: an alternate reality. I no longer see MD as an alternate reality (and I would rather see the aspect of roleplay and social play in MD executed in a more formal way). Mur has managed a bit by making his vision executable thus far. MD is a significant achievement. But I view it as unbalanced (in the end, though, since I'm disengaged from MD, I find that OK in a way--it's a compensation for MD's nature).

Finally, even ignoring personal preferences in gameplay, whenever significant change occurs and a new culture takes place, it's natural that older players miss what they are familiar with and feel displaced by newer players. In addition, some changes are bound to dissatisfy any one player. It depends on a host of factors, but I guess this is what Mur would call the inevitable loss of players.

Anyway, this is just a personal observation, provided to supplement my more mundane response. It looks like I've returned to my rambling habits. ;) From this you might get a better sense of what kind of person I represented in the previous MD community on the threshold of change, when it was dealing with the new roleplaying issue and game development. I used to be an incendiary anti-RP rabbler in the "stubborn old vet" school. As for why I still have some attachment to MD and bother replying to threads like this and visiting, it's the memories of good times that keep me going. :) Not MD as it is now; it's not mine any more.

Haha, I really liked reading all of this. Well, I didn't read all of it, but yeah.

Reading my own response made me realize an interesting point, which pertains more to the nitpicky issue about roleplayers, in that I disliked them for exemplifying aspects of my own playing style in MD--the whole spin and drum of roleplaying in that desire for social acknowledgement, for the feeling of acceptance in a community you esteem. Seeing how this subordinated the other aspects of the game, literally, in fact, in terms of game development, and otherwise in the attitude of players toward the game, allowed me to see how it was shallow. Though I did not explicitly relate it to myself, it did lead to a sense of dissatisfaction and searching. Why was I playing MD, after all? It took a bit of internalizing to process the changes in the game, but it eventually led me to quit.

There is certainly some legitimacy to roleplaying in a game. It added another dimension to MD, and it doesn't mean that players necessarily don't appreciate the more traditional aspects of its novel gameplay, battle mechanics, story, and player structure. Technically, roleplaying can be a creative exercise, and Mur's attempt to integrate it into part of the game system was another nod to MD's tradition of innovation. Isn't it natural to enjoy social interaction?--why not make a part of gameplay? I can see why other players can and will defend MD as it is now. But--it's not my thing. It requires too much suspension of disbelief for a shallow product, and I value more intellectual concepts in games than the social and dynamic alone. Yes, I enjoyed being a part of MD's community, but only while I liked that community for what it was. It's also not true that every community has its bickering and politics and drama, as some new players like to say; old MD's culture was very different from what it is now. I miss it.

For further comment on the deal of roleplaying in games and MD's development, I would like to add that there is a [b]balance[/b] (eh, eh? principles!) between chaos/imagination and rote/order. MD is so innovative by part because of Mur's inclination to experiment. But as he is adding in all these elements and trying all these things, the game becomes more complex, unmanageable, and gnarly--kind of a bit like reality, eh? There is a value to that. A mini-society, how interesting, how cool. But it wears down after a while--how interesting is it when that's what you're acquainted with in real life, anyway?

You can roleplay without going as far as asterisks, hence the normal sense communicated by "roleplaying games." Games by principle provide something different through rules, limits and simplification [b]in addition[/b] to fantasy and imagination: an alternate reality. I no longer see MD as an alternate reality (and I would rather see the aspect of roleplay and social play in MD executed in a more formal way). Mur has managed a bit by making his vision executable thus far. MD is a significant achievement. But I view it as unbalanced (in the end, though, since I'm disengaged from MD, I find that OK in a way--it's a compensation for MD's nature).

Finally, even ignoring personal preferences in gameplay, whenever significant change occurs and a new culture takes place, it's natural that older players miss what they are familiar with and feel displaced by newer players. In addition, some changes are bound to dissatisfy any one player. It depends on a host of factors, but I guess this is what Mur would call the inevitable loss of players.

Anyway, this is just a personal observation, provided to supplement my more mundane response. It looks like I've returned to my rambling habits. ;) From this you might get a better sense of what kind of person I represented in the previous MD community on the threshold of change, when it was dealing with the new roleplaying issue and game development. I used to be an incendiary anti-RP rabbler in the "stubborn old vet" school. As for why I still have some attachment to MD and bother replying to threads like this and visiting, it's the memories of good times that keep me going. :) Not MD as it is now; it's not mine any more.

UPDATE: I am no longer Loreroot's Master of Spies nor part of the Lorerootian alliance!~ Please refer to the third post down.
Like any other alliance we maintain an interest in the internal affairs of certain peoples. Currently we are in need of spies, to be blunt. As a spy you will be part of the support group, but you won't be listed in any place others outside the alliance might see. Meaning, you won't be added to the official list of SG members in either the fansite forums or the MD forums. Most likely only I and Nelya will know your identity.
For now I am in charge of all espionage activity as spymaster for Loreroot. That means if you want to spy for us, you'll be overseen by and report solely to me. Contact me discreetly; for obvious reasons you should not associate yourself publicly with Loreroot, so don't post here or join the forums. I'll be asking you:

Why do you want to help Loreroot rather than another alliance?What is your opinion about the current state of affairs in the MD lands?

Do you have any objectives besides helping Loreroot?



Why do you want to be a spy rather than help Loreroot other ways?

What alliance/group do you think you can infiltrate and spy in most easily, and why?

What will tactics would you use in espionage, given the liberty to choose?

I reserve the right to tell you how and where to spy, but I tend to believe that people know themselves and their capabilities best so I will consider what you say carefully. I also expect my spies to be flexible and sensible, in case an opportunity or choice presents itself during espionage activity and must be answered immediately. Therefore I will search for signs of such characteristics in your response.

Why they have skulls. D: I thought they were supposed to be pretty much immaterial and insubstantial, as if made from shadows.
I'm disillusioned and repulsed by Necro-shade-world now. I think I'm going for RJ's little people instead. They're pretty cute, like miniatures of what I previously thought shades were like.
Let's go to Golemicus next!~

I'm quite sure BigC was returned to his pit. I was tracking the shade, as was Braiton, and found both him and the mutilated infirm in the Trial of Agony. I told him that his honor was in the negative before following the shade to the Eternal Toiler, where he retreated.
I don't think the shades would allow BigC to be saved without interference. I think a rescue party would be a different sort of quest, with an objective contrary to that of respecting the shades' wishes while on their territory in return for knowledge. I, for one, wouldn't want that, although I'm not adverse to helping him.
EDIT: I just returned to Necrovion and confirmed it: BigC is still in the Trial of Agony.

Why they have skulls. D: I thought they were supposed to be pretty much immaterial and insubstantial, as if made from shadows.
I'm disillusioned and repulsed by Necro-shade-world now. I think I'm going for RJ's little people instead. They're pretty cute, like miniatures of what I previously thought shades were like.
Let's go to Golemicus next!~

I'm quite sure BigC was returned to his pit. I was tracking the shade, as was Braiton, and found both him and the mutilated infirm in the Trial of Agony. I told him that his honor was in the negative before following the shade to the Eternal Toiler, where he retreated.
I don't think the shades would allow BigC to be saved without interference. I think a rescue party would be a different sort of quest, with an objective contrary to that of respecting the shades' wishes while on their territory in return for knowledge. I, for one, wouldn't want that, although I'm not adverse to helping him.
EDIT: I just returned to Necrovion and confirmed it: BigC is still in the Trial of Agony.