Ivorak

None of the people jailed (as far as I know) were jailed for using alts. Mighty Pirate used the aramor, and Nadrolski used Paracelsus. The problem is that they put all the tools in one place, which is now impossible due to the new restrictions Mur has added [b]due to this abuse[/b]. As the announcement says:
[quote]You should not use alts to store multiple shared items [u]and you should not hoard them, these items are meant to be used by many people not hoarded by a few.[/u][/quote]

[color=#0000ff]Split from [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10924-eons-help/"]http://magicduel.inv...0924-eons-help/[/url][/color]
[color=#0000ff]-Burns[/color]

I hope Mighty Pirate didn't get jailed for heat jars incident. It would be pathetic to punish somebody who stirred the community into some action hiding jars (BTW I got one 18k quite a long time after tools reset, PM me if you need it) and letting resources deptetion (herbs depletion in most low lands makes the 'most accesible and public' Herbs Basket useless for most game population) go unattended.
After all, you could pick up heat jar if you went there early enough, you could ask ppl to loan it (you could get it for free, not only Mighty Pirate monopoly after all) - tools of the given type were still in circulation. On the other hand resources that are gone... are just gone - hence herbs baskets are available even several hours after reset.
To summarize... I do not think items hoarding should be a jailable offense. It's minor tools abuse comparing with depletion.
... unless depletion is also consider jailable offense only nobody reported it as such?

.. my experince of the issues of the beginnings(that did not manage to scare me away, but it wasn't too far off)

[b]-i had no issues with the beginning story. [/b]
it sets a frame, a "myth", in which than the MD world is enveloped. In fact, after reading few more posts and threads on this forum,[i] i think some texts in the beginning story- their specific wording- should be tweaked into a more neutral description[/i] of the scenes. (In some sense it feels to me that darkness, as in life, isn't necessary evil, but also something else. in the same way, light isnt' necessary reassuring pure goodness).
[i]that is obviously up to the makers of the "game".[/i]

[b]-i have constant issues with no bonuses being awarded withthe free credit votes(and i desperately need AP!)[/b]
This is serious: fyrd's quest, Prince rhaegar's one, and also another one(don't remember precisely the name now, but it involves typing the names of kings of the territories in various places) all request me to go through MDA gates, and i cant' pass. i shoudl wait another 30 days or so to pass through that, gate unless i get awarded the extra AP. Same also true for the lands at the east(but it might be wanted as higher level players' zone.

[i]My advice to admin is: add an item in the MDshop, available from the start- 1$ for 30 extra AP(i would buy it straight off!!).. woudl make the game SOO much more enjoyable. OR lower the ap requirements for the MDA gates..[/i](it got me super frustrated)

I solved what i could in MP3 before hitting the xp cap. have also been lucky enough to get a sneak peek to necro and loreroot for halloween right after joining(that was exciting and probably a big advantage with creatures), managed to find my ways to keep the balance of losses/wins and while hitting max honor. I have now passed to mp4 NOT BECAUSE I COULDN'T STAY IN MP3 but BECAUSE I CAN'T PASS MDA GATES FOR ANOTHER 30 DAYS AND I CAN'T GROW OTHER CREATURES AS THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO STORE HEAT SINCE I HIT THE CAP.

Some "older" players told me there are many things to do while being mp3.. but i havent' spotted them, in the territory available to me so far.
I don't know if they're well hidden and i just didnt' look deep enough, or simply not accessible with my ap. i don't know if i'm not being told about them because it woudl be a spoiler. but the result is=>
=>my reasoning (rough and un-moderated): "If i have to wait 30 days to pass the mda gates, i can wait for them in story mode putting 24 hours meditations at every page...that way also my creatures will get the few days of age they need to evolve". i felt left without any other sensible option.

Right now there is the "research and connections" thing going on, which got me interested and i will partecipate(but that wouldn't make me stay mp3).

...but for the future newcomers, prolly making mp3 more accessible (in practical terms-AP most of all) would be a good thing.

Looking forward to have the chance to get more intrigued with the relating the rabbit hole, it's inhabitants and the projections of the world outside the cave ;o)

Number of AP increasing with AD allows older players to venture further into the realm exploring it and preventing young players from going too far from areas where they could learn and train. On the other hand tools are shared and are supposed to be usable by as many ppl as possible (well, thos who can lay hand on them - themselves or asking for help). AP usage cost would have to be either very small (20?)... or would make them inoperative for younger players.
I agree it would be nice to have harvesting skills and tools 'level' matter - but there is cooldown for that. Also, currently byproducts are generated only for 0 in inventory - that could also depend on skill/ tool.

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1320929391' post='95581']
It is no wonder MD is loosing players by the bucket load when there is nothing but a huge negativity and hatred within the realm.
This topic to be honest is pointless. it is just another one of those moan moan moan and nothing ever gets done.
[/quote]

I am a young player in the realm, I will try to give you a positive answer, so that you see that positive vibes also exist within the realm.

When i discovered strange things were happening with the jars (from the log room), I first consulted someone thinking there was an Alt abuse (I had not noticed the char involved was an empty aramor), and when corrected I went to GG to investigate a bit.
I left clues of my investigations there at tempest fort. Also on a certain wreck. I also talked with Mighty Pirate (I did not know he was involved).

What I would have [b]loved [/b]seeing is some kind of reaction, some kind of Role Play happening. I personnaly believe mighty pirate was a great idea in term of role playing and providing fun and buzz to the realm. But no role play happened. Mighty avoided answering me too directly to not disclose himself as the instigator of this event.

I am almost 100% sure that if you, King, and you, Fusioneers, had made this an interactive event in the realm, using Mood Panel to communicate your claim on heat Jars, using your citizens (instead of an empty aramor) to store jars, then we would all have had some fun together. I know already 3 people who were ready to fight you for the jar grabbing (and we did not try to recruit more, as the topic evolved quite fast).

Instead, this appeared as an attempt to bypass a game mechanism, using a loophole, and that does not give much fun to anyone.

My point: make positive (or at least fun) things, and the realm (well at least young players, as I know those more than I know vets) will react positively and pro-actively.

This is a bit off topic, but I think it would be interesting to have a clickable on a scene that would take heat and lumber and turn it into various different planks. Like a lumber mill. Lumber mills obviously don't fit in your pocket, but it would be pretty feasible to have it on a scene.... if we had a scene with a lumber mill in it, that is.

I like that idea, though. Taking raw items to specific scenes that have cauldrons in clickables to have them processed.

What Mighty Pirate has done may be considered abusive, but it certainly shouldn't be punished by any action other than that of the players in game. If this is the role Mighty Pirate wishes to play, he should be allowed to do so. After all, if you need a heat jar, simply beat him there.

I feel as if MD could use more intrigue of this sort (as opposed to forum arguments and complaining) as it leads to action and creative solutions--something fun. For example, the events surrounding the murder of Mya Celestia had a number of flaws and thus (deserved) criticisms, but it also lead to great fun for many.

As leader of the Fusioneers, I take full responsibility for the actions of all guild members. I was aware of MPs actions and supported it, but will go on record saying that greed was not my motivation. Anyone that has dealt with me knows that the last thing I am is greedy. In truth I thought it humorous and that it would lead many to a scavenger hunt of sorts. The who, what, and what the hell happened:) I do hope this does not turn into a forum war as this is the last thing I wanted. Mighty Pirate's character goes hand in hand with his actions. He is a pirate afterall. As for the other members of the guild, they were not aware of his actions.

[quote name='Ivorak' timestamp='1320861280' post='95541']
What Mighty Pirate has done may be considered abusive, but it certainly shouldn't be punished by any action other than that of the players in game. If this is the role Mighty Pirate wishes to play, he should be allowed to do so. After all, if you need a heat jar, simply beat him there.

I feel as if MD could use more intrigue of this sort (as opposed to forum arguments and complaining) as it leads to action and creative solutions--something fun. For example, the events surrounding the murder of Mya Celestia had a number of flaws and thus (deserved) criticisms, but it also lead to great fun for many.
[/quote]

Thank you, this is is exactly why I did it. I thought this was a creative way to support a discussion on the role of guilds. That part worked Those who really feel betrayed can contact me or Kiley in game to receive your jar. If you can't see the fun in my actions - my advise for you is not to take things too serious and not to make a mountain out of a molehill

(Of course I will not continue with this - it takes a lot of time to move all these jars and it took almost three weeks until someone complained in public

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1320849963' post='95534']
Kings get penalty points for abusing king tools, which Yrth didn't.
[/quote]
As Brulant pointed out, this isn't the case, however even if it was I would just like to point out that Authority is a kingship tool as well.

That he has the Authority to make such a decision comes from him being a king. That does not by extension decide if the decision is right or wrong, just that he has the authority.

What Mighty Pirate has done may be considered abusive, but it certainly shouldn't be punished by any action other than that of the players in game. If this is the role Mighty Pirate wishes to play, he should be allowed to do so. After all, if you need a heat jar, simply beat him there.

I feel as if MD could use more intrigue of this sort (as opposed to forum arguments and complaining) as it leads to action and creative solutions--something fun. For example, the events surrounding the murder of Mya Celestia had a number of flaws and thus (deserved) criticisms, but it also lead to great fun for many.

What Mighty Pirate has done may be considered abusive, but it certainly shouldn't be punished by any action other than that of the players in game. If this is the role Mighty Pirate wishes to play, he should be allowed to do so. After all, if you need a heat jar, simply beat him there.

I feel as if MD could use more intrigue of this sort (as opposed to forum arguments and complaining) as it leads to action and creative solutions--something fun. For example, the events surrounding the murder of Mya Celestia had a number of flaws and thus (deserved) criticisms, but it also lead to great fun for many.

What Mighty Pirate has done may be considered abusive, but it certainly shouldn't be punished by any action other than that of the players in game. If this is the role Mighty Pirate wishes to play, he should be allowed to do so. After all, if you need a heat jar, simply beat him there.

I feel as if MD could use more intrigue of this sort (as opposed to forum arguments and complaining) as it leads to action and creative solutions--something fun. For example, the events surrounding the murder of Mya Celestia had a number of flaws and thus (deserved) criticisms, but it also lead to great fun for many.

What Mighty Pirate has done may be considered abusive, but it certainly shouldn't be punished by any action other than that of the players in game. If this is the role Mighty Pirate wishes to play, he should be allowed to do so. After all, if you need a heat jar, simply beat him there.

I feel as if MD could use more intrigue of this sort (as opposed to forum arguments and complaining) as it leads to action and creative solutions--something fun. For example, the events surrounding the murder of Mya Celestia had a number of flaws and thus (deserved) criticisms, but it also lead to great fun for many.

[quote name='phantasm' timestamp='1320839295' post='95523']
The only two lands I know that has a rule regarding resource collection are LR and GG (with the don't deplete <50% rule). And how have these rules balanced the market?

The Tribunal has a rule of no depletion under 60%. Though we have no king (that is ever around for its citizens that is) we have all decided upon this rule and do regular checks to see who is depleting resources. If there is a rule in LR its blatantly disregarded, as almost always there is huge amounts of total depletion in that land.
[/quote]
Thanks for the additional information. I only have access to the land rules page on the citizenship page (which only has the rules for the mainlands), so it's very useful to know the rules of non-main lands.
And yes, unfortunately land rules only apply to citizens, so depletion by non-citizens can't be controlled (and it's hard to keep faith that there are no rule breaches by citizens as well - although I would see why citizens would deplete a resource if they saw the resources are being depleted by outsiders anyways).

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1320841367' post='95526']
The Fusioneer's have the responsibility of managing Heat jar's. Before they got turned into public items the heat jars where
used and managed by the fusioneers and that is what they are doing. Managing the tool.
Personally i dont care about the announcement of the shared tool as it is a complete contradiction to the alliance role.
again remember the tool was the alliances before a bunch more got created and put into shared status.
So the fact that the fusioneers feel they have a right to manage such a tool is not unjustified.
[/quote]
Yes, I can see how the fusioneers (and dowsers and woodcutters) would feel it unfair that their tools are suddenly made public. It doesn't really justify abusing "loopholes" (which is even arguable if there's an actual hole there) to maintain monopoly. Besides, doesn't the fusioneers already get the better end of the stick compared to the other 2 resource guilds? From what I understand the fusioneers still have some tools of their own, while the others lost all their tools and must rely on shared ones (CMIIW here).

And as a King, I do think it's really your job to do care about rules that are put on announcement.

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1320841367' post='95526']
To answer to whom gave the permission for Mighty P to do as he has been doing. It was me and i stand by that.
This is just a case of Mighty finding a loop hole to the rules that have not been plugged. He is not using an alt.
The armours are not ALT's they are something else. They are not necessarily dead account's ether.
[/quote]
Right, the ALT "loophole". If that's your argument, then I would argue this:
[quote][b]Severity warning on tool related crime punishments[/b]
Getting tools and placing them on alts will be considered a serious crime from now on. If the interface allows you to, you can grab more than one tool or from more than one location, but [b]using more accounts to take more tools from same place is a CRIME[/b]. Because the obvious temptation that is now bigger than ever with all the new tools and the valuable resources, this crime will be punished more severely than normal. Jail time from 2 month to 4 month plus additional penalties such as confiscating resources on all accounts, trade ban and anything else needed based on the severity of your action. Things will get more and more interesting in the upcoming period, don't spend that time in jail and don't waste my or the Councils time to catch you doing this particular crime. To make things "worse" i am placing a bounty reward for anyone successfully spotting such crime and help catching the criminals.[/quote]
You can't normally take more than 1 of a certain type of shared item with one account. MP is using the aramors to take more tools from the same place, so if we're going to argue over semantics I can argue that this whole thing is breaking the rules at the first place anyways.

You are a king. Mur himself has stated that he will make changes to the system to prevent [b]this [/b]kind of [b]abuse[/b], yet you do not feel compelled to change your policy?

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1320841367' post='95526']
This sort of thing has been done many times in the past and has always been abused. Just when someone
has done it with a tool like this now you all complain. Why didn't you moan about the woodcutters and their abuse?

But if that is the case then nardolsk i think is it should stop taking all
the water tools like he has been as that is a worse case of abuse. that what you lot are moaning about
but you have done nothing to stop him or complain much about it.

So if you are going to start picking on this sort of thing then bring every one into it that is abusing and not just
the one guild or player. But all of them and i mean ALL of them. It is funny how you lot decided to gang up
on one player until they give up and not bother others whom have been abusing the system for a much longer time.
[/quote]
Personally, I didn't complain about this "abuse" of shared tools that the woodcutters and nad are supposedly doing since I don't even know it exists. But I find it utterly ridiculous to tell myself not to do anything about an abuse that does come into my knowledge simply because I do not know of all the other abuses that have been happening.

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1320841367' post='95526']
The only reason this is coming to light is that is has curved the greed a little and the greedy are upset by it.
All this has come down to one thing farming what ever you can and abuse it all. To me all you lot are doing is making a mess
of what should have been a wonderful system.
[/quote]
Uh, news flash! I've never even picked a heat jar before and don't have any plan on doing so in the near future. And if it's just greed for resource I could just take the materials I get from making items for people for myself (there's no rule on what I can do with those other than my self-imposed rule, you know). So.. could you tell me why the hell am I here again?

Kings get penalty points for abusing king tools, which Yrth didn't.

I suggest Yrth gets a penalty point for condoning such abuse, and MP gets off with a warning. Anyone else?

So now that someone has decided to manage a resource you all go crazy and complain.
What happened when the memory stones got managed like that? oh nothing a small bit of neg repping and that was about it.
Each land has their own rules to each land item and in regards to tool use.

The Fusioneer's have the responsibility of managing Heat jar's. Before they got turned into public items the heat jars where
used and managed by the fusioneers and that is what they are doing. Managing the tool.
Personally i dont care about the announcement of the shared tool as it is a complete contradiction to the alliance role.
again remember the tool was the alliances before a bunch more got created and put into shared status.
So the fact that the fusioneers feel they have a right to manage such a tool is not unjustified.

To answer to whom gave the permission for Mighty P to do as he has been doing. It was me and i stand by that.
This is just a case of Mighty finding a loop hole to the rules that have not been plugged. He is not using an alt.
The armours are not ALT's they are something else. They are not necessarily dead account's ether.

This sort of thing has been done many times in the past and has always been abused. Just when someone
has done it with a tool like this now you all complain. Why didn't you moan about the woodcutters and their abuse?
and no i wont start bringing in more crap of prove this prove that. I have no care to do so.

Until Mur make a set rule or implement what every he has planed i dont see the issue.
Mighty has a system he has figured out and it is up to Mur to fix that if he so wishes.
The only reason this is coming to light is that is has curved the greed a little and the greedy are upset by it.

So it is like this. When Mur states it is 100% abuse and should not be done
then Mighty may stop doing it that way. But if that is the case then nardolsk i think is it should stop taking all
the water tools like he has been as that is a worse case of abuse. that what you lot are moaning about
but you have done nothing to stop him or complain much about it.

So if you are going to start picking on this sort of thing then bring every one into it that is abusing and not just
the one guild or player. But all of them and i mean ALL of them. It is funny how you lot decided to gang up
on one player until they give up and not bother others whom have been abusing the system for a much longer time.

All this has come down to one thing farming what ever you can and abuse it all. To me all you lot are doing is making a mess
of what should have been a wonderful system.

[quote name='Mighty Pirate' timestamp='1320833034' post='95513']
Some remarks (explicitely not for Pips).

Currently, the heat jar market is unbalanced. Compare that to resourses where there are land rules in place to balance supply and demand. Currently we have very high supply of heat jars for low demand. So what I do is just a way to balance the market.

Remember that the guilds goal is to make money with heat jars. Read the related annoucements. I know that not everybody likes this but that's the way it was announced.

As for permission - I asked for permission before and I got permission.

As for the announcement cited several times here: I did not use alts for this. I did not hoard items. (Many people hoard stuff, most popular are probably memory stones. I do not.)

Items are meant to be used by many people - I absolutely agree to this. Actually, they can be used by all, I'm not aware that there is a single person in this realm who is unable to use a heat jar.

If you interpret this announcement as "all should get heat jars for free" - No, this contradicts our guilds goal and it has never been announced that way.

A final word to all police men and judges: There is no injured party and no denied privilege. This is just something that you might not like. But that's nothing new, all threads dealing with resources and land laws are full of similar complains.

I'm happy to discuss more in a calm way.
[/quote]
Sadly, I would have to disagree with your argument.

First of all thought, I need to ask which resources are you referring to when you say "Compare that to resourses where there are land rules in place to balance supply and demand"? The only two lands I know that has a rule regarding resource collection are LR and GG (with the don't deplete <50% rule). And how have these rules balanced the market?

As far as I know, heat is one of the more highly demanded resource, being a resource that is needed for the only creatable cauldron item at the moment (aromatic tea). If you're talking about low demand vs high supply, other "useless" resources such as all the wood products, poison herbs etc would be in a more dire situation than heat. (And I'd like to remind everyone again that heat jars are also usable directly in a cauldron, not just heat stones). Why would heat need such a monopoly more than those other resources?

The guild's goal is.. to collect heat. At least that's the only thing mentioned about purpose in the announcements. Yes, guilds are allowed to gather money with the tools you have at your disposal, but I don't think money collection was ever the main purpose of any guild in MD.
[quote][b]Fusioneers - New heat based guild[/b]
A new resource based guild was founded, based in GG. This guild will gather..HEAT. For that purpose they were provided with advanced tools, Heat jars and associated Heat Solidifiers. The jars will be given to other people to load with heat and return to them. The Fusioneers will be able to store that heat into memory stones and create Heat stones (casting heat spell). For that they will obviously need Memory stone resource in large quantities. Leadership was granted by GG King to Kiley second by Mighty Pirate. 3 more seats left in the guild, but requirements will be very strict, considering the special activity of this guild. [/quote]

Please clarify who exactly gave you the permission you mentioned you have. Was it the council/Mur? Since the whole issue would be different if it were..

[quote]As for the announcement cited several times here: I did not use alts for this. [/quote]
Although you're treading on a gray area here with "those are not my accounts" stuff, shared tools in the first place are not meant to be just passed around to other accounts(especially "dead accounts" like the aramors) like what you're doing - they're not transferrable except via ITC. Heat jars are a unique in that they can be passed around like normal items, but only because they need to be easily transferrable to use the heat, not so this difference can be abused to hide the tools. What you're doing is clearly not the intended use of the heat jar's transferability.

[quote] I did not hoard items. (Many people hoard stuff, most popular are probably memory stones. I do not.)[/quote]
The announcement explicitly says it is meant to be used by many people though. How is what you're doing not directly going against what is stated in the announcement?
[quote][b]All shared items have been returned to their original place.[/b]
Go grab your favorite tool and engoy it till the next regroup. Try avoiding cauldron type items just before this regrouping takes place (same date and hour weekly) as they will regroup even if they are in use. Item keep some of the modified values on regrouping. You should not use alts to store multiple shared items and you should not hoard them, these items are [b]meant to be used by many people[/b] not hoarded by a few.[/quote]

[quote]Items are meant to be used by many people - I absolutely agree to this. Actually, they can be used by all, I'm not aware that there is a single person in this realm who is unable to use a heat jar.

If you interpret this announcement as "all should get heat jars for free" - No, this contradicts our guilds goal and it has never been announced that way.
[/quote]
There is lots of people in this realm who is unable to use a heat jar - not when they're hidden away in an empty aramors's hollow suit.

Btw, the announcement did announce things "that" way, you know...
[quote][b]Shared Tools[/b]
A vast majority of tool items will be turned into shared tools. Shared tools can be picked up in a fixed place, probably the capital of each land or other suitable locations. After a time they will spawn back there to be picked up by someone else or same person (time and way they are picked up is not final yet). All current tools except a few ones and the tools marked as "independent" will move to this new way of using tools. The guilds responsible with resources will remain as they are but their purpose will shift to a new direction when their tools will be migrated to the shared system. This is a major concept change and won't come easy to do. [b]During this process all migrated tools can be taken freely from the item dispatch places described[/b], but eventually, tools will be "rented" by each land and resource guilds will have a much better purpose and way to determine hierarchy (based on skill). This way tools will remain always in action and anyone could work for his resource related role and will not depend on joining a guild or receiving such a role as a gift. As always, use the forum for commenting this.[/quote]

NB:
@passant: thx for the explanation on the mechanics

Some remarks (explicitely not for Pips).

Currently, the heat jar market is unbalanced. Compare that to resourses where there are land rules in place to balance supply and demand. Currently we have very high supply of heat jars for low demand. So what I do is just a way to balance the market.

Remember that the guilds goal is to make money with heat jars. Read the related annoucements. I know that not everybody likes this but that's the way it was announced.

As for permission - I asked for permission before and I got permission.

As for the announcement cited several times here: I did not use alts for this. I did not hoard items. (Many people hoard stuff, most popular are probably memory stones. I do not.)

Items are meant to be used by many people - I absolutely agree to this. Actually, they can be used by all, I'm not aware that there is a single person in this realm who is unable to use a heat jar.

If you interpret this announcement as "all should get heat jars for free" - No, this contradicts our guilds goal and it has never been announced that way.

A final word to all police men and judges: There is no injured party and no denied privilege. This is just something that you might not like. But that's nothing new, all threads dealing with resources and land laws are full of similar complains.

I'm happy to discuss more in a calm way.

To me the "jump to PC" link would be good only on tranquillity days, not if it's permanent.
Jump to a dedicated location within the land the player belong would be good as well.

lashtal

I'm having trouble understanding what Xrieg wrote, but here are my thoughts.

Administrative spells are given for administrative uses. If these spells are cast into stones and given to others, they are no longer available for their administrative purposes. Therefore I do not think spells granted for administrative reasons should be allowed to be traded without restriction. I am willing to trust that those granted such authority can regulate themselves, but then again, I haven't yet been affected by the more widespread availability of such spells.

I believe administrative spells should be used for administration. If I am mistaken and the purpose of granting administrative spells is to reward those given authority, why not substitute silver and gold? Certainly our community leaders should be rewarded; but we must determine if they have been rewarded sufficiently already, and rather or not these rewards benefit the greater community.

I'm having trouble understanding what Xrieg wrote, but here are my thoughts.

Administrative spells are given for administrative uses. If these spells are cast into stones and given to others, they are no longer available for their administrative purposes. Therefore I do not think spells granted for administrative reasons should be allowed to be traded without restriction. I am willing to trust that those granted such authority can regulate themselves, but then again, I haven't yet been affected by the more widespread availability of such spells.

I believe administrative spells should be used for administration. If I am mistaken and the purpose of granting administrative spells is to reward those given authority, why not substitute silver and gold? Certainly our community leaders should be rewarded; but we must determine if they have been rewarded sufficiently already, and rather or not these rewards benefit the greater community.

Ups sorry, I didn't realize of possible copyright problems, and I intended the "look on the forum for the subject and write a research of 500 words in max one hour" as: "be online, grab all you can find and post it, the quickest wins".

I am in Jail, but I always consider myself a Lorerootian.

I find it offensive that just because we only show solidarity, people assume that everyone is in agreement.

Lorerootians do our bickering, fighting and show our unhappiness within our private meetings. We do not need to tell the whole world what we fought about.

In public, we show our full support to our King.

We agree to disagree.

There are times when that didnt work, they leave.

I agree with the points made by Firs, but I am dissapointed that this is brought out in public.