Kafuuka

[quote name='Rendril' date='02 November 2009 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1257184570' post='46420'] That is the problem, there is [b]no key table[/b]. Keys are stored as a serialized array in the player table. [/quote] Then [b]make one[/b], and keep it in sync. Obviously only Mur could actually make one, but that goes for the delete button too.

[quote name='Rendril' date='02 November 2009 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1257185539' post='46421'] I somehow didn't see the post you made about the key storing over time. A script could be labelled so it knows to be deleted, but you would need to assign which keys belong ot it specifically. In some cases I want keys to be around for ages, some I want gone within days. The direct deletion trigger or expiration would be very useful, but how do we link them?[/quote] [quote name='Kafuuka' date='31 October 2009 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1257027755' post='46236'] How it works: 1. create a label L 2. register keys K to L 3. create scripts S with label L Steps need to be carried out in order, but you don't need to do all of them. eg. no scripts, only a label. When deleting L, first all scripts S will be deleted, if any. Then all keys K will be removed from all players that have them, if any. Finally the label L is deleted.[/quote] And if you want a timer, you should add it to L. It is possible to enforce keys to be assigned to a label. Whenever the security check reviews a new script, it can search for the commands involving keys, eg. mds_has_rpcq_keys(key1, key2). It can extract the names key1 and key2 and check if those keynames exist for any label or for the label to which your script is assigned. The latter provides more security, but then you need to allow a label to be assigned to another label, if you want to use keys from that other label. One more possible flaw: if a script is deleted, but a person opened the clicky containing it before the deletion and pushes a button afterwards, that script is probably not stopped? This could be circumvented by delaying the deletion of keys until say 24h after the scripts are deleted. Not overly difficult yet quite an annoying thing.

[quote name='Rendril' date='02 November 2009 - 05:40 PM' timestamp='1257180036' post='46410'] You put forth a powerful solution but there is a big flaw, your assumption. With the way you have proposed it, there would be a player array with 30k entries. Even if we assume a mere 1kb per player info (counting name, keys, id etc) it would take 30mb at minimum. That is almost a percent of the server's total RAM, and only a minimal estimate. If 100 clickables were ot be accessed concurrenmtly that's the whole server taken down because it's trying to hold 300k rows in memory. Please correct me if I have misundertood what you meant.[/quote] Why would you put the same array into the ram multiple times? The one exception to this is multithreading. But even then you only need one copy to read from and you cannot have multiple copies to write to, lest you wish to risk data going out of sync. If there are 30k players, there will be 30k player objects. These objects hold things like keys, name, creatures owned stats etc. The key part isn't taking up the majority of that 1kb though. [quote]I'm guessing you were refering to the array of players who have the key. Anyway, there is no such player array. There is but a single player object.[/quote] That's why I said such an array should be created. There is no need to store all player data in it though. primary index is keyname, second column contains arrays of player ids, not player objects. Once you have the player id, you can retrieve the player object from the existing player array. [quote]The player object is select roughly in this way [code]SELECT * FROM players WHERE id = $id LIMIT 1[/code] This is a big generalisation on what the query looks like just to give an idea. Now, it will return a key array (an array of string) in the player object. In c++ style the has_keys() function does roughly this, where key is the string for the key and keys is the array of them. [code]if(keys[key] != null) return true; else return false; [/code] I know this is c++ code which wouldn't work, php supports associative arrays where you can define custom named indexes. The keys are stored that way in order to eliminate duplicates. [/quote] In similar fashion, with a second table for keys: [code]SELECT * FROM keytable WHERE key = '$key' LIMIT 1[/code] Will return an array of integers. You can use the same associative array type to check whether a certain player(uid) has said key, or you could print out all elements the array has and thus know which players have the key. If you want to transform uids into names, you can use the original table at the cost of an extra query.

Those queries should only occur when one deletes a quest (at least in this system, what the other thread is aiming at is interesting too... jolly good fun with dual threads, which I guess is my fault.)

[quote name='Rendril' date='02 November 2009 - 02:31 PM' timestamp='1257168708' post='46396'] The keys are an array of strings held for each player object. Storing an integer constant for the editor is feasible. I like it as a solution, but is it workable with the current system? The clickable has access to only the player accessing it. To have a function asking for "all players" means querying the database. If quertying the databse is acceptable (it puts a greater load on the server for MySQL overhead) then it could be done. [/quote] I assume the player objects themselves are stored in an array or another list type. Each player object has an array of keys. (I seriously doubt this is a traditional fixed length array, more likely a linked list.) Essentially: array_of_players[uid].array_of_keys[i] For different uids, the i-th key is not necessarily the same string constant. This means that mds_has_rpcq_keys("keyname") actually does (c++ style): for( i = 0; i < array_of_players[uid].array_of_keys.length() && !found; i++){ [indent]if( array_of_players[uid].array_of_keys[i] == "keyname" ) [indent] found = true;[/indent][/indent]} return found; A hashmap of keynames list_of_players_with_key["keyname"].list_of_uids[i] can be made. Each element of the hashmap is an object containing an array of uids (integer constants, references to player objects would work too of course). To output all players that have a certain key: for( i = 0; i < list_of_players_with_key["keyname"].list_of_uids.length(); i++) [indent] std::cout << list_of_players_with_key["keyname"].list_of_uids[i];[/indent] Generating the hashmap from the player array is a trivial double loop. After it is generated, every time a key is given or taken, a modification in both 2d arrays should occur simultaneously, keeping both structures in sync. Both of these operations are single loops, with the length of the loop depending on number of keys a player has and number of players that have a key respectively. This is also where having useless keys increases cpu time.

Care to explain how you estimate the expenses? My rough estimate for the label method gives a profit ~ 50% after one year. If you combine it with the solution in the other thread [post='46394'](delete button)[/post], it would break even after a year and yield 30% profit after two years. The parameters I chose for the estimate are not exaggerated in favor of my method at all. And I did not take into account that string constants often use more memory than integer constants.

I think there is a less invasive method to do this. I assume keys are stored as follows: every player object in the list of players, has a list of keys (string constants). It is feasible to make a list of keys (string constants) and for every key have a list of players ids (integer constants). This list can safely be generated from the first list (the first list is not altered), although the query might take a long time, but the process need only be done once. A new function could be made, returning a list of player ids that have a certain key. list mds_who_has_key(const String "key"); If you know the keyname, you can then print a list of people that have that key. You do not have to be the one who made/gave the key. Downside is this doubles the amount of variables stored for a single key. It would help [post='46236']the cleanup process[/post] though.

[quote name='Rendril' date='02 November 2009 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1257119300' post='46344'] I'm not sure what you mean. I was talking about the server having to store more as well. It is not a heavy strain, no. But an unnecessary one.[/quote] Imo it is nothing short of a memory leak. The person who creates a key giving script cannot make a script that will take away said key with a 100% efficiency. It is a small leak, perhaps only a kilobyte a month... yet no programmer should be satisfied with that.

Keeping a list of keynames changes nothing to the keys themselves. If we assume the average key is possessed by ten players, using the list implies one more string constant is saved, increasing the load by 10% if a key is indeed only a string (I think I read the date is saved too, which implies the effective increase is less than 10%). If one in five keys (quests) expires within two months and the total number of keys is more or less a constant, then we can estimate after one year as: without cleanup: 80 permanent keynames + 6*20 temporary keynames = 200 keynames; loading = 10 => total memory used 2000 with cleanup: 80 permanent keynames + 20 temporary keynames = 100 keynames; loading = 11 => 1100 The values are guesses, but a key that is possessed by less than 10 players should not be the norm. Whether features or quests, the idea is that most of them are made for the masses. If a quest expires, two months is more than we usually give. At the moment most quests expire too, but given the script it will be more feasible to make permanent quests because there is less maintenance on them. Things people seem to forget: - keys should expire at the same time all scripts giving/taking the keys expire. - deciding which keys/scripts to clean up at what time is not the same as deciding how to clean them up. Without the how, the what and when is irrelevant. - the chances people set the expire date to never are only slightly smaller than the chances people forget to push delete after the expiration date. In general it are the same people that do not care about cleaning up or are sloppy and forgetful, that are either to vain or to neglecting to think ahead and decide a good expiration time.

@Observer: not all scripts should expire. eg. Someone could make a market script to finally get rid of all those willing to trade topics on the forum. That script should only expire if a better market script becomes available and I doubt that would happen at a predictable time. In general it is difficult to predict when a key/script will expire, unless you set a deadline for your quest and do not extend it... Imagine the server going down for maintenance at the last day, at such a time i would extend the quest 24h. @No One: Labels work similar to the list you mention. Makes me wonder if you read my post And yes Mur should be involved with this, especially since it requires changing the MD code, not writing MD scripts. However it would be nice to give him a list of solutions. Or we could brainstorm together on irc, since this is a problem that deserves priority.

[quote name='Rendril' date='31 October 2009 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1257016079' post='46227'] So Kafuuka, what you are proposing is to "label" the scripts which belong to a certain quest which allows you to delete them in one call? Storages would also need ot be given a label which corresponds to the script's label, so that the garbage collector knows to take it down too. The problem with keys is that they are not editor-specific, in other words 2 people could be using a key of the same name (that is why I suggest using key prefixes in all your code) how would the cleanup know which ones to take?[/quote] I propose there to be some structure enforced. All scripts should have a label and there should be a list of keys that exist. As soon as one player has a key, or even is capable of receiving a key, that key 'exists'. Afaik this list is currently not implemented and without it there will be useless keys piling up without anyone realizing they exist, which is like a memory leak. To prevent this, it makes sense to assign key names to the label of your quest scripts too. At the time of writing a script, you know which keys you create and you can list them. When deleting all scripts with a certain label, a query can be executed on all players, to remove the keys in that list. (which is something you wouldn't want to do every second i guess, but then again who is going to delete many scripts in a short time?) This relies on people accurately listing the keys. Alternatively you can force people to register keys with a label before they can be given to a player. (Could be verified at the time the script is tested for security.) How it works: 1. create a label L 2. register keys K to L 3. create scripts S with label L Steps need to be carried out in order, but you don't need to do all of them. eg. no scripts, only a label. When deleting L, first all scripts S will be deleted, if any. Then all keys K will be removed from all players that have them, if any. Finally the label L is deleted. If you have cross-quest keys, you can put them in a different label. You could even put each key in a different label, thereby making it redundant. However using labels in a sensible way (ie. making as few labels as possible), you needn't worry too much about cleaning. In [post='46174']this post[/post] I outlined an example of a quest that should leave only one key on players at the end. However, if a player stops midways, they will have multiple keys. If at a later time you want to purge all remnants of the quest, it is very easy to forget the additional keys of players who gave up on the quest and only clean the end key. (afaik We can't use the required queries in MDscript anyway.) Two large issues: people using the labels wisely and people actually pushing delete once in a while. My solution thus is far from perfect, but at the moment there is no cleaning at all. I hope it can be improved upon so that we will not need code inspectors. There is already a fair bit of paranoia about plagiarism and cheating, code inspection would not help that at all. Reading undocumented code is annoying anyway. Storages: I'm confused how they work, so I'll get back to those once I figure them out.

You are making the assumption people will clean up things themselves. Perhaps all those who currently have access have the intention to do so and the skill, but at some point there will be people lacking intent and/or skill. Besides the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Alts make this very redundant: everybody that wants to go through the trouble can read all the info.

I think it is best to split this from the main discussion about MDscripting. [quote]Kafuuka, you raise a very important point. The cleanup is sorely lacking for both keys and storage. Yes, the empty storage removes itself but things like "tests" with data in them stay behind, I think a storage list which shows the names of your storages would be useful (even if you just get them in an array)[/quote] The problem is simple. Every time a new variable or key is created, it increases the server load a tinsy bit. Memory/harddisk space and possibly processor time are eaten. cpu time? Imagine a query on all keys a player has. I have only one reason I can think of to make such a query, but that is one too many. Quests can be forgotten by players and creators alike, but the server will only delete the keys if the creator asks it. This is also true for scripts themselves. Ideally all creators are excellent, motivated programmers and take the effort necessary to minimize this. In practice most of us are liable to be happy if our scripts work regardless of efficiency. There a couple of guidelines which are valid for every programming language that has to deal with memory: -For every line of code that creates a new variable, there should be a line of code to delete that variable. -Use good names for your variables. Compare 'x143' and 'number_of_attempts'. Both of these guidelines are problematic. Only keys can be named. Quests are often one time only, thus requiring an end key to be stored as long as the quest exists. This implies that cleaning up quest scripts can only be done if you also clean the keys which then become redundant. If your script is spread over a dozen clickies, this isn't fun work and actually a process which can be standardized: if scripts can be labeled, then it becomes a straightforward idea to delete all scripts with the same tag. Deleting the endkeys (and others if necessary) requires a query over all players but is also programmable. Both of these are not doable in MD script afaik, but should be implemented asap to counter bloated code. In one step I would force labeling to be mandatory for scripts and keys. It is more work for Mur now, and more work every time you make a new key/script, but the maintenance will go down a lot.

I haven't yet looked at MDscript, but I did something similar for one of my quests, using php. For MDscript I would do something like: when starting the quest, give the player two new keys [i]Kafuuka_questx_started[/i] and [i]Kafuuka_questx_stage0[/i] whenever players advance the quest, delete the key [i] Kafuuka_questx_stagen[/i] and make a new one [i]Kafuuka_questx_stagen+1[/i] when it is finished, do not make a new stage n+1 key The only checks you need to make are: if the player is at the clicky to start the quest, see if s/he attempted it before. if the player is at the n-th clicky, see if s/he has key n. If there are different routes, you will have to make even longer keynames, eg. [i]Kafuuka_questx_stageA_pathB[/i]. If multiple paths/stages arrive at the same clicky, you'll have to check them one by one. It is impossible to have multiple checks to be true and this won't pose a problem. If you are paranoid and don't want people to guess your keynames, use something like [i]Kafuuka_bananas_questx_stagA_pathB[/i] but change "bananas" into a word that no one will guess. For cleanup there is only one problem: people that got stuck in the quest will have both the [i]Kafuuka_questx_started[/i] and [i]Kafuuka_questx_stagen[/i] key and are trickier to erase when the quest has ended.

[b][center]We, the Jury Members, proudly present you the winners of the second Paper Shaper contest.[/center][/b] [b][size="3"]First place[/size] 179[/b] Xavierson ++ bard songs (important for a bard/violinist) + interesting setup + good writing o clean presentation - distant past; more recent events? [b][size="3"]Second place[/size] 165[/b] Yoshi + Good roleplay + Integration into MD, balanced o simple formatting o story mode is not new, other elements are interesting [b][size="3"]Third place[/size] 160[/b] *Indiria Serenias* + Very emotional + consistent poetry and pictures + interesting story and possibilities - future plans? Congratulations to the winners. Your prices will be distributed asap. People who want to know their scores and the full comments can pm, I will try and answer within 24h. The above comments are only a very short summary. Also note that there is no use in comparing the final scores with previous contest, since we changed the score system a little (this version has a maximum of 260, last one 88). Furthermore I apologize for the delay, we experienced some technical difficulties. Many thanks to our sponsor Grido (and Blackwood Forest), our inspiration Kriskah Arcanu, our fans and all participants! And also my fellow jury members; it has been a lot more chaotic than it should have been, but we got through it Please keep in mind that this thread is meant for victory shouts, not comments on the organisation, use the meta thread for that.

[quote name='I am Bored' date='29 October 2009 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1256841074' post='46077'] i must request those who have voted to say what they voted, that way i know what votes should actually be included in the counting [/quote] You actually mean to try and calculate the mean and error of something that does not look like a t distribution at all? (student t looks similar to Bell). But since you asked, I voted "I don't know"; never did an official test and I consider the online tests quite ridiculous.

[quote name='Indyra' date='28 October 2009 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1256760774' post='45975'] A 4 digit number divided by its inverted self equlas 6 and rest 933 [/quote] I think you meant divided by it's mirror. The inverse of x is 1/x (in most contexts) and dividing x by it's inverse is equal to squaring x, which obviously wouldn't make sense in the context.

Question about storeable variables: if I understood correct, keys are internally stored (using OO syntax) as boolean player.key and variables as var creator.player.var ? Is there a creator.var too? You could dump those in creator.creator.var probably, but that might make trial runs more difficult. All three types of variables have uses imo. Cleanup and access are tricky subjects. It should be possible to keep track of when code was last executed and then assign a cleaning comity to review old code. Of course the comity would have less work if functions that are related to a single quest/feature are grouped as such even if the code is spread over different clickies. Not all quest creators are good quest solvers and vice versa. One way to deal with this is to let aspiring creators seek out a master creator that trusts them and have the master introduce him into the quest creator circle. The aspirant then gets limited access and the senior members vote on his/her masterwork quest, after which the aspirant hopefully gets full access. I guess that everybody that has 100 AD should know at least one former RPC or someone else with quest creating abilities. The above could perhaps be extended to RP use of clickies, or combined with a pay option. Although I wonder how people would use clickies for RP, I'd prefer to make a talking NPC bot... which I've been wanting to do for a long time and since it's a browser game I probably could, but botting is usually frowned upon due to exploitability and the way I have in mind is not really efficient for overhead and such *edit* my php is a bit rusty, but if there are few programming people available, I'll see what I can do to help. I have no idea when inspiration will strike me though, so it might be a good idea to (in a separate thread) have people that can't program put requests for template functions?

You should be very careful about deriving conclusions from this 'statistic'. There's no way to be certain people didn't lie. The amount of data is very small, you can't even be certain this is normally distributed and it is very unlikely it has the same deviation, 15. Even if you calculate all that, it doesn't change the fact that it is very well possible your iq lies on the left side of the curve.

[quote name='Guybrush Threepwood' date='14 October 2009 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1255539922' post='44669'] I think teaching people how to analyze an argument might work better first. I'd rather not have a bunch of people voting on something for some ridiculous and pointless reason learn how to BS their way to a reasonable score. Though, learning how to argue will help them analyze arguments I suppose. Edit: Perhaps ethics in argument should be included as well? Though that will likely not stick. [/quote] You cannot explain the difference between a clean argument, a misleading argument, a persuasion and pure bullshit without giving examples of things that are not clean arguments. Besides, the more you know about persuasion, the better you can arm yourself against them. As for ethics, in theory one should stick to arguments only. No hidden premises or other tricks. In practice people will always use everything they think they can get away with, so the only way to stop them from using tricks is to learn the tricks and warn other people. Which is once again the reason to teach people how to wrap bullshit with a nice colored ribbon.

An interesting dilemma: do we remove useless and inappropriate remarks, perhaps punish the offenders? Or do we let them be, so that people can read and judge for themselves. What you write in another persons' log often tells more about yourself than about that person.

IQ is highly overrated, as others have stated before. However, I do not think IQ is a bad concept, if you know what it is and what it is not. + It is cheap and quick to measure IQ. + Tests can be fairly accurate. Sadly online tests are quite crappy. Also a test is only accurate in a certain interval, mostly being [70,130], but this can be resolved by iterative testing. + IQ is easily interpreted. Most tests look at these things: vocabulary, pattern recognition and logic. These things are (should be) learned at basic school in all Western countries and I assume they are taught everywhere they have education. - Scores might be influenced by stress and mood. - They don't tell us much. Being good at logic is being good at logic. It doesn't imply you have knowledge of philosophy or maths or any area in which logic is useful. If you are good at logic AND you have read a hundred philosophy books, then you are probably a good philosopher. On the other hand we have EQ. + Written tests are equally cheap and quick. - Online tests are utter crap. For vocabulary tests there is a single right answer, while EQ tests have a 'which option suits you more?' approach. Some of them have 'none of the above' or want you to assign scores from 0 to 10, with 5 being no preference. However if half of the time you pick 'no preference', it'll be tough to interpret that. - Interpretation? These tests are often a mix of self knowledge, knowledge of others and manipulation of others. How you need to treat others to get to a goal is dependent on your sociocultural background and the goal itself. Perhaps your morals prevent you from walking what you know to be the shortest path to your goal and an observer than concludes you took a less efficient strategy, thus you are 'emotionally stupid'. Perhaps having morals is indeed stupid. Success and achievements. This would give us the most interesting information, but it is impossible to measure objectively. As for MD playerbase, I think the average level of curiosity is high. We don't play this game because we want the game with the highest polygon count or the coolest moves. We play it because we want to find out what it is about, what will happen next, who we will meet next, how they will respond to those very same questions... It is my idea that this attitude has a positive correlation with intelligence and also the occasional death of a cat.

Using my own secret approach to fuzzy logic to combine the advice of all judges, I can now announce the top 5 ranking of the torture device creation contest. Obviously those not mentioned will be disappointed. But they too can, for a while, enjoy the torture of the ranked players who will have to wait anxiously for their rewards. Also, I thought it would be funny to make this post as long as possible, so you have to read it all. Remember, all of this will be on the test! [spoiler]Anonymously regarded as the worst entry: Grim Angel aka Ledah. If you want an explanation why we think so: just ***** google it. In fact, I had plans to make an example out of him (there was a miscommunication and I've been rather busy irl to notice it on time, but feel free to torture Ledah anyway) by using the following scheme: [u]Sideshow Ledah:[/u] Ladies and gentlemen, after careful deliberation we have found our first special victim! For the crime of being totally uncreative and blatantly googling, he will star in the special Sideshow Ledah feature of the engineering torture contest. For obvious reasons it is not called Sideshow Bob; that would be plagiarism! The objective is simple: submit a picture of Grim Angel/Ledah crying and an explanation of how you got him into that state. Bonus points if you get him to say he loves Tree.[/spoiler] Shocking, isn't it? Next up are the players that managed to somewhat impress all three of us. North Equilibrium and (Zl-eye-f)-nea. You guys beat your mediocre opponents to pulp. Druzik and Observer managed to get good marks from some of us, but Druzik aptly upset it by getting bad marks from n°3. Chad also managed to leave an impression. Dst made a nice comment about each of the participants: [quote] Udgard:Hmmm...trying to win me over hey?! Guess what? You're wrong! I'm not a masochist! I'm a sadist! So...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Z:Nice device but...what about the headless horseman? Or the ones that lost their heads over a girl or boy, woman or man? Tzk tzk tzk....you're not being fair! I am the only one allowed to discriminate! So...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Hmm...see? See? Exactly what I was talking about! Lifeline: We asked for torturing devices not death sentences! All you did was signing your own death sentence! That's not cool! Or...ok...it will be cool when rigor mortise will take over your body but until then... You're suicidal man! Oh...and if you ever escape Akasha's and Amoran's punishment...you'll die by my hand! Worst possible death you can imagine!Oh almost forgot...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Aken:Man! You have a razor fetish! Also...no pics? Lazy lazy lazy! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! ps:I'm going to call my mother to cook me a tomato soup Cryxus:C'mon Cryxus! What happened to walk the plank and a bottle of rum? I was expecting a parrot and some crackers. I was expecting hooks and other piraty stuff (btw:does the word piraty exists?). Plucking an eye out? That's a surgeon's job not a pirate's one! Shish! What if a doctor would come and ask you to let him navigate your ship? Anyway...I have to agree...the amount of pain you can inflict using your method is quite disturbing. But that doesn't prevent me to shout: OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Kempiniukas: When I started reading about your device something sounded familliar...hot, cold, hot cold. At the middle you started to resemble the guy responsible with tortures in hell who got kicked out for being too sadistic. At the end I was sure: YOU ARE THAT GUY! The grabbing of the souls blew your cover! So all I can say is OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Laz:You're discriminating too!!! That's a torturing device for grinders! They are humans too, you know?!! Shish! So..OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Nex:hmmm...I bet a former girlfriend invented that and applied it to you . Hmm...actually...if I think better all women apply a similar torturing method by asking their husbands/boyfriends/etc tons of questions. The device is replaced by the frequency, amount and sometimes stupidity of questions. I can tell you that it is much more painful because with your device you can at least faint for a couple of seconds. And the public humiliation thingy that is stolen from the same source! How would you feel if youw were called in public "Puppy, little bear, etc etc" by your other half? I must agree...you changed a bit the buttons on the remote control. They usually do something else like: red button:throw plates on tyhe husband/boyfriend, yellow button:no cooked meals fro 2 weeks, blue button:sleeping on the sofa etc etc. Oh...nice addition with the raffle but still.. OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Ledah: you're lame! No imagination there! I am disappointed that's all you came up with! And you call yourself a tree hater! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Aql:Nice but with a major flaw (same as Z's): what if the subject has no head?!!! Damn! Do I need to think at everything! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Aeoshattr:Where are the pics, boy? Where are the pics? Anyway...helmet? Same as Z and Aql...table? yes, nice indeed. Torturing methods? Hmmm...i think you were doing your chemestry homework when you got the idea. They describe exactly how I felt when I had to make my chemistry homework: -my bones were starting to break like twigs and kidneys were starting to stop (starting to stop - nice one hey? )functioning -i was having hallucinations about getting a bad grade -i was starting to snap my fingers and bite my nails -I was having a drink to stop the hallucinations -after the drink my hole body was paralyzed for some time -since my paralysis usually happened in the kitchen imagine the cuts i was getting from all the broken dishes. Oh yeah...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Shadowseeker:I am disappointed. I thought you were going to submit one of your quests. NOTHING can beat those as torturing devices! So...no no no...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Observer: I bet you have done this before.You're a suicidal type same as Lifeline. Actually no! You're worse! You picked on MB! Man! You're either a really courageous person or you're insane! Most likely the second part! Mad players lose their heads really fast in the game. And to prove that...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! druzik:Hmmm...I must confess...your idea is new, simple and even elegant I might say. But too spiritual for me. You must have been a priest in your former life and you cannot escape the...spirituality But I can help...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Totenkopf: Oh yeah! Internet-o-hoolic!You google to find where you left your glasses 5 minutes ago . And you also discriminate! (see pic.1b) Don't you all understand that I am the only one allowed to discriminate? Shish! Skittles? Hmmm...that might work...Torture manual??? Are you kidding me? A MANUAL?? A good tortionist doesn't need one!Nice moves with MD stats but...you RickRoll'D me! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Death Bell: Ughhh...that looks just like one of my beauty saloon visits...strapping to a chair/bench/etc, nail rippers, hair pulling, pain, all sorts of powders and creams made of worst things then chilly. Hmmm...now I wonder...HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THIS? Got you DB! So...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! North:Fun slide you said? You are right. This is fun! For a masochist! I would have done something else: I would have given the alcohol to the rats first then drop them in a box with the victim then do the wizard trick But that's just me. So...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! Chad:First of all:being blindfolded is not always such a bad thing!Second: screams are not always bad.Third: being tied is not always bad. Hmm...and your torturing device looks also a loot like my visits to beauty saloons (same as Death Bell's). Sometimes I think I experience worst things. And same as Death Bell...OFF WITH YOUR HEAD![/quote] the list: 1. North Equillibrium 2. (Zl-eye-f)-nea 3. Observer 4. Chad 5. Druzik

[quote name='druzik' date='19 October 2009 - 07:42 AM' timestamp='1255930940' post='45171'] when kafuuka will post results of contest? [/quote] When I feel you've all been tortured enough by not knowing, obviously.