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Kafuuka
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Posts posted by Kafuuka
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1.coins for helping with papers/html
A lot of people will help for free, but then again, a lot of people will give you all that 'inside information' that others promise future adepts, for free.
2.new players doing coin quests
There aren't that many hardcoded puzzles and quests and if you pay attention, you soon notice that certain players have a 'quest' page and others put quests in their hatelist. And what about the players that never read papers? I doubt they will pay others to help them write their own papers.
3. trade supervision
I get the not trusting part, but I'd rather see a trade interface where both parties have made their offer and agreed to the other parties' offer. Otherwise it's going to be a lot of trouble finding a supervisor and it will likewise not be a fun task.
4. trade logs
Once again, hardcoded automatic logging is both safer and less tedious. I suspect some people would prefer privacy and so it would also make sense the logs are only consulted when there are reason to be suspicious.
5. banking
I thought MD was going to have a primitive economy? What's next, stock options in Kafuuka Milling Inc? Does anyone want to start selling those and give me the proceeds?
6. Infinite items
This is probably just an unlucky naming. At any given point in time, the amount of items should be finite. (if it was infinite the value would be zero, since value is proportional to 1/supply.) There should however be a constant (or growing) flow of items, maintained by creation and destruction. Creation and destruction can be mimicked through the garbage alt idea, though that will require trusting a lot of people. Ailith and Stormrunner are currently 'creating', providing coins to players who do a simple quest. The recent auction and the item creation quests are 'destroying', taking coins and items out of circulation.
Basically we want to increase the flow and suggest to have more:
More items
More types of items (mundane items, limited use magical items, powerfull unique items)
More creators (and destructors)
7. More creators
I have stated this before but since it's already more than 10 posts ago...
Either this implies more RPCs, or the availability of an even more limited creation ability for the non-RPCs.
Imo it should have a limited amount of uses per month. It should cost a lot to acquire the ability (a wishpoint). It should be very limited in what it can do. Eg a miner can mine and get a couple of ores (iron, silver... maybe make it random which one you get at every attempt). A brewer can change any kind of wheat/mushroom into the appropriate alcoholic beverage (i forgot what blue ale is made from, but i guess there must be some mushroom based beverage in some fantasy novel somewhere). This is more restricting imo than Kragel, who can even make metallic muffins, not that I'd eat them. This would allow RPCs to focus on the unique items and not get burried in workorders for mundane items, while still having lots of items created and destroyed all the time. (I don't know of nonRPC care about the workload, but maybe, just maybe it will help more if i get RPCs to support this idea)
Anyone ever played Dwarffortress?
I've also mentioned death and taxes.. err thievery and taxes (death to the thieves?) as coin redistribution methods.
7b. More creators (bis)
You could also use more quests for coins, more jobs (or slavery)... but the more people you involve, the less transparent it becomes and now that the issue of distrust is raised... effort, manual maintenance... It would be so much easier to rely on programmed features.
8. "I appoliogise for not reading this all so carefully'
Wait, you what? Go back and read it you illiterate! Now you've even made me rant about this kind of stuff. And read my post at least five times, so that you can recite it without looking, I've made it long for that purpose you know
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[quote name='Liberty4life' post='30237' date='May 4 2009, 08:19 PM']mur big problem is.... people dont know how to roleplay, and those who know dont want to teach properly
big questions in quality roleplaying are how to do something and still get noticed, for example if i want to fight against necrovians, what should i do, i should attack them on sight, but thing is i wont get noticed my intentions seams fullish so to speak, this is just one example, not much people knows how to affect masses or not even few players, and how al works thats still mystery even for ones who have been in it[/quote]
There are people that put hints on RP in their papers. I know I did. The one problem might be that I'm not considered as one who does know how to roleplay... but did you ever ask anyone to teach you? Only one person ever asked me anything RP related and I've responded to that within 24h.
How to get noticed? First of all, is it in your characters nature to get noticed? Not everybody can be famous.
The best place to start would be your papers though. People do read that, and if they like it, they'll put more effort into talking with you. And patience, patience and more patience. Fame spreads slowly. It spreads faster if you know famous people or do remarkable things. Note that doesn't mean being friendly with them. Having an enemy is probably the best way of getting noticed, if you manage to be on good terms with the player and have good battles with his/her character. Of course your character might end up dead because of making too many enemies... no risk, no gain? Sadly this will require a lot of ooc conversations with your 'enemy', but how else would they know how to react to your attacks?
My theory is that quality will get noticed, will be talked about, but you wont notice the noticing until one day you wonder why everybody knows your character and knows how to anticipate his/her/its behavior. Though you might want to ask someone who achieved that to verify the theory, since waiting for it is rather boring. -
[quote name='King Manu' post='30219' date='May 4 2009, 06:05 PM']NO
no more fun stuff
you (some) of you are happy to find ways to avoid rules, and never realised MD is not about such rules, then rules you will have, all of you.[/quote]
I'm not against rules, but may I suggest a different set of rules?
YES
yes more fun stuff!
There must be one person that plays the game the right way and inspires the many, right?
@Burns: *sending a stream of red sparkles at your face* ... you're confusing godmodding and RP. I don't think there's a hardcore godmodding faction, since they tend to believe in the 'there can be only one' credo. -
"Indeed Items shouldnt last forever. (Kafuuka once said so too as I recall.)"
I've said a lot of things, but I assume [post="27714"]you're referring to this?[/post] (mind you I said mundane items, artifacts should last or be destroyed in epic RP) It seems like there is an outflux now, with the item creating RPCs dumping the items they gather in a world bank / garbage alt. A lot of irony and odd names there...
The influx can be taken care off with quests and rewards. When both in and outflux grow, this might give a revival of the once shot down suggestion of a [topic="3539"]quest fund[/topic], only using items instead of credits.
Thirdly there's going to be a difference between influx and outflux, caused by [topic="3849"]"collectors"[/topic]. If the collectorflux is a mere fraction of the influx and new items are created often, this would become an ignorable.
Personally I would've solved the flux problem by coding (not that I'm allowed to touch the source code), but this solution will give us all more quests to do.
[topic="3830"]Items with bonuses[/topic] and consumable, muffin-like ones, would be cool too. Like with spells there should be an amount of creations per month. That would solve the time factor imo. Your character can do the job while you are sleeping. But who would be granted the power to create them?
a. RPCs, meaning we'll need more of them
b. Regular players, in exchange for one or more wish points and if it fits their role. A dwarf miner fits all stereotypes, a vampire whale hunter however...
This allows for a large variety of little creators. Some people would gather herbs, some would mine for iron. Others would melt said iron into bars and finally they would end up with an item creating RPC to be made into something unique (an 'artifact') or made into something consumable. Each person in the chain (safe for the RPC) would have spent a WP on a limited ability. eg A miner can only mine and get a random kind of ore or mineral. If that person then stops playing, someone else could be given the same ability.
One objection could be that this implies a WP -> infinite MDS conversion. Thievery and taxes (now everybody is going to make a noble or a thief character) could offset that. The more coins you have, the more likely they can be stolen (I'd prefer it if only coins could get stolen, it would not make sense for a ring or a shirt to be stolen, unless you're really really drunk) and we all know how taxes work. Maybe forbid the 'little creators' from doing quests that reward coins or from doing other jobs? Steady supply versus the other forms of revenue. It's tricky to balance but It could be interesting. And if you add weight to items it'll become even more complex. Which gives something for merchants to have: an increased carrying capacity.
And I hope I included links to all related topics. It's not only me that has said a lot of things that might be relevant, and I seem to be typing way to slow once again.. I count 7 new posts since I started... shouldn't have paused to eat cookies... -
[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' post='30155' date='May 4 2009, 06:17 AM']Yes, but the thing is, each item has its own id. It is not set in a limited id barrier either, so I doubt a simple script will be able to check which items are silver coins, and which are not. It is a much more complicated process than it seems to be. The best solution is to change the coin system into a system by itself.[/quote]
It can't be that hard, in lolcode it'd look something like:
HAI
I has coins
coins is 0
ItemIdList iz bucket
Im in ur ItemIdList itza numba
[indent] Iz ItemIdList#numba->name == "Silver Coin'
[indent] visible "found a coin!'
up coins[/indent]
nowai
[indent] visible 'found something else'[/indent][/indent]
kthx
visible coins
kthxbye
I kinda doubt MD is written in lolcode though... but things like sql are made to do the same with less lines of code. Or if you really want to minimize the code to be written, how about a list of check boxes instead of a pull down menu? That way you could even trade both items and any number of coins at the same time. -
From RP perspective the term class is very restrictive. I have no idea what traditional box to put my character in...
The option to have your interface change to a healer one, will likely have both advantages and disadvantages that influence the battling. I don't think it will interfere with RP though. Some people get their inspiration from it, others will try to nudge their interface towards the one that matches their character most. Just like with principles: you choose the one you think most fitting, but they don't define you unless you want them to. They also don't impede you from battling, in fact it is quite possible to ignore them completely. I wouldn't advise you to, but it is possible. -
[quote name='Udgard' post='30021' date='May 3 2009, 07:24 AM']Just a note , Mur said that items are supposed to be a rare and special thing, not something common and easily obtained.[/quote]
Originally there wasn't going to be a currency either but now we have the MDS. I think (hope) that items will be split into commonly available ones and difficult to obtain artifacts. Raw materials should be plentiful, non-magic daggers shouldn't be that hard to get, but a dancing sword is a one of a kind item. This will then result in two kinds of 'collectors': some will try to have the most items and some will try to have the coolest items.
If it's about having the coolest items, those should not be needed as ingredients. (I suppose every rule will have exceptions though)
If it's about wanting to have the most, it would not impede quests since trading one item for another doesn't change the item count. However, if such a collector knows you need a certain unique yet simple item, you're entirely at his/her mercy. And what's worse: increasing the quantity once will not help. There's bound to be someone that will try to get a monopoly on a commonly used raw material. It might take months to achieve, but that hasn't stopped anyone so far.
How about adding weight to items, especially to raw materials? Carry too much weight and you'll be unable to move. Dumping them on alts means they wont count towards the hoarder's item count. It's not foolproof, but it would make things difficult. -
You'll need lots and lots of quests... but I look forward to trying to solve them!
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[quote name='Synex' post='29928' date='May 2 2009, 01:21 PM']Well it still happens with the other stuff today as well. Even you can help your main account to win a head contest with multies. I think that is not a problem since the game allows it. If you don't want that to happen then a mechanism should be derived not letting them do that
[b]And is every thing in MD is multi proof???[/b] No. Therefore that does not matter[/quote]
Two wrongs do not make a right. -
I think quantity is the bigger issue with items. Having witnessed part of the auctions yesterday, I admit there was more activity than I originally expected, but I still think items are mostly a collector thing. If the quality/power of items is increased, it will increase their collection value. My understanding is that characters in MD aren't supposed to be equal, that there is room for legendary ones, but I consider the following offer an abuse of power:
"Trade you my Spell Doc (rare) for your iron nails'
Such is not an equal trade. The spell doc is not lost to the one that offered the deal; the same deal can be offered again and again, while people that have an item can only trade it once. I hope this is not how a legendary collector will be born.
Quality wise the suggestions are rather powerful, how about some weaker versions? An item could have a limited number of uses, after which it ceases to exist. I have nothing against artifacts with unlimited uses, but right now there shouldn't be anyone with enough coins and wish points to buy one. -
what is to stop people from using alts to be certain the right creature gets the right token?
it'll have no wins or xp, and low age, but people don't seem to mind grinding. -
I have one thing to add about roleplay. There's tons of things you can say about good and bad roleplay, lots of things I've still to discover, but there is one golden rule:
Your character is NOT you!
In the worst case scenario for your character he/she/it will die (and not get resurrected/become undead). That might actually also be your most glorious and memorable roleplaying event, only if your character were you, you probably wouldn't appreciate it.
And now to derail this topic: lets start betting when my character'll die -
[quote name='Harion' post='29351' date='Apr 24 2009, 08:27 PM']hence the result, we are in our present quandary which is an economic collapse
which better minds might've prevented if those who were on control before
just didn't think they were gods and believed so much in the supremacy of numbers and math)[/quote]
Actually there were a lot of theories that predicted the crash. One based entirely on math predicted the collapse about five years before it happened and was only half a year off on the date. At the end of the lecture about this prediction, one person in the audience asked the question 'but now that people know this will happen, won't they change their actions to avoid this outcome and make the theory void?' The answer was a single word: 'greed'.
You might think that greed, opposed to caution, is an irrational factor, however if you look at it from game theory, it is the rational choice, since there is no way of convincing the other 6 billion people to make the 'safe' choice. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma) And even if there was a way to convince the others, they would have to forfeit a huge amount of short term profits. As long as one changes everything to cash the day before the crash, that person has made a large profit while the ones that don't have debts. It is the logical choice, albeit very selfish.
In essence: large amounts of people are rather predictable, even though you can't predict much about a single individual.
And back on topic: it's nice to have a confirmation that a periodical reset wont happen, but whether or not there will be a reset has never been stated. I've read the giant post a couple of times and based on what I would do (there goes any and all credibility) and the non-explicitness I'm inclined to think there will be something like a partial reset. -
5. This has been mentioned before, although it's not the main issue in [topic="3301"]that thread[/topic]. I don't know flash but I think it restricts access to the users' hard disks. No code that will be executed by a browser should be allowed to write on your hard disk for security reasons.
If the game wasn't embedded into a browser, there would be a whole lot of optimizations possible but a whole lot of new troubles like platform dependence and firewall issues would arise too. It's a trade off which is likely to have made the designer pull his hair out on various occasions.. I know I would have cursed choosing flash, last I checked there was only an alpha version for 64bit linux, which makes it as platform independent as c++ imo.
[edit] MD works with the alpha flash plugin. Somehow a lot of other flash apps crash though, so the alpha plugin is far from stable. Maybe I am biased against flash, but the platform independence is supposed to be it's main asset. For that matter I don't like java either, they had the same problem for a long time and the language has no explicit pointers! Give me back my memory leak creation tools dammit! -
quoting myself for once
[quote name='Kafuuka' post='27714' date='Mar 25 2009, 03:45 PM']To keep the economy flowing you'd need both a high influx and an outflux of items; a lot of mundane items should be created and destroyed on a regular basis. This is the best way to satisfy supply and demand, which afaik are the essense of economics.
Destuction of items? A sword can break, a potion is consumed etc...
Obviously that conflicts with the unique items mindset. The term artifact might help a teensy little bit at combining them, but there's also the overlap with the md shop (potions) etc.
I fear it is a trade-off between those problems or the problem of stagnation: all items gathering at collectors. And a lot of code work of course.[/quote]
To give you all a nice example of how collectors think and work:
"Trade you my Spell Doc (rare) for your iron nails"
Currently items are artifacts, not expendable trade goods.
The creatures would be a good addition to this since they are recruited and sacrificed on a regular basis and it would work if there'd be a wide variety of non-shop creatures and everybody having access to only a small (and different) section of them, which could happen with the reset/faction thing. I thought there was mention of people starting in different places, so that would take care of the different availability. -
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A month ago I made a quest for which I needed a free web host with php and sql. I googled a bit, found one that had good reviews and managed to get the thing working. In the past month that server has had a lot of downtime. I don't check it every day, but I estimate it's downtime is above 10%, which in my opinion is far above acceptable levels and makes me wonder why it has good reviews.
So my question is: does anybody know a good free web host with php and sql, that is stable (and preferably not too much forced adds, but I suppose that's asking a bit much)? -
[quote name='Lifeline' post='28333' date='Apr 6 2009, 05:47 PM']i said "most roleplay ONLY players" meaning players that rp most of the time and dont use their gaming time to train creatures. or are not willing to spend much time on understanding the game mechanics and gathering wins for their crits to upgrade and thereforce loose very often. i never made a generalization.
i see mp4s with over 100 active days that cant even beat the loreroot guards. of course they are unhappy about not gaining entry to loreroot and loosing to most other mp4 because they dont really understand the fighting system and only roleplay. and yes they would care about getting slaughtered because they can never fully heal their crits to even have a chance to win enough fights to upgrade them. and soon after they leave a sanctuary they would loose all vitality again
hope u understand better now what i ment[/quote]
DOJO?
And for an example of how new features would require a reset: introduce a new variable that is exclusively altered during story mode. It would be impossible to retrace the steps the mp5 players made and calculate what value it should have been. (unless every choice you make is noted instead of simply updating the relevant variables and forgetting the path, thus saving disk space) There's countless variations on this theme that would make it impossible to 'convert data', and then there's the factions thing etc.
We're having a discussion about a possible reset of which we have little information: why? when? will it even occur at all? -
[quote name='Lifeline' post='28316' date='Apr 6 2009, 01:19 PM']most roleplayer only players would most likely also like a reset because they only roleplay and are sick of getting slaughtered because they never build their crits.[/quote]
So you assume roleplay purists don't care about the fighting and don't level their creatures, but do care about getting slaughtered? And even if we ignore that minor inconsistency, it is rather easy to avoid the carnage: don't go to the next mp level.
Personally, my biggest concern about the reset would be the beliefs paper requirements, at 121 days I'm almost there.. and I could always do with more space; MD really needs to expand its paper factory.
But that's enough about what we might lose and who would lose most. What would we gain from a reset? That would depend entirely on the new features for which the reset is necessary. A reset an sich wouldn't improve anything afaik, but it's more likely the reset is a programming requirement due to new features. Sometimes new code just isn't compatible with old code and it's best to throw away the old data. It doesn't seem too wild a guess it's all related to the faction thing, so maybe the question shouldn't be' do you want a reset', but 'do you want factions'? -
[quote name='Liberty4life' post='28175' date='Apr 4 2009, 04:10 PM']:s okies... with that i cant tell much, only thing i know is that md doesnt recognizes your browser, that means your browser is sending wrong identification header..... tell me your addons[/quote]
or check if other javascript pages detect it right, eg [url="http://www.quirksmode.org/js/detect.html"]http://www.quirksmode.org/js/detect.html[/url]
( or even better: switch to linux ) -
This is a bit confusing... applications open, close, open again and in the other tread the quest had almost died and such...
anyway, best of luck to the new applicants. -
To keep the economy flowing you'd need both a high influx and an outflux of items; a lot of mundane items should be created and destroyed on a regular basis. This is the best way to satisfy supply and demand, which afaik are the essense of economics.
Destuction of items? A sword can break, a potion is consumed etc...
Obviously that conflicts with the unique items mindset. The term artifact might help a teensy little bit at combining them, but there's also the overlap with the md shop (potions) etc.
I fear it is a trade-off between those problems or the problem of stagnation: all items gathering at collectors. And a lot of code work of course. -
[quote name='dst' post='27704' date='Mar 25 2009, 09:55 AM']No, it's not
. I have submitted the solution 3 months ago and still no reward.[/quote]
I second that. Solved it sometime in december, mailed it and never got a reply. -
[quote name='Grido' post='27351' date='Mar 18 2009, 04:27 AM']a fund? people are rewarded with credits for making quests? is your idea?
or that those who've made quests can give out credit rewards from this ''pot'' of money?[/quote]
I meant the second one. To have your quest recognized, being able to give something to the ones who solve it and thus have more people try it, is already a nice reward for the creator. I'm aware that not every quest should have a credit reward, some are too easy, some are too hard. (eg. the one in my hate list right now is way to easy.)
[quote]i'd say no to both due to explotation of the system[/quote]
I don't see how this is exploitable. [b]No credits are created [/b]by it.
Maybe if people were to use alts, voting for free credit then donating them to the fund and using their main character to do quests for credit. But that would have an extremely low revenue:
In the time one person solves a quest, dozens of other people might solve it too, so you'd have to vote and donate a lot more than you could get in return. You should also actually solve the quest within the time limit (or worse, competing to be among the first who solve it), while excessively clicking vote links and changing your ip (i assume those sites do check your ip, if not they're being noobish). I'd like to think people are not crazy enough to do that kind of thing. And even if they were, It shouldn't be too hard for the comity to outsmart them.
[color="#4169E1"]Small remark here: the sites are noobish
DST[/color]
my intentions seams fullish so to speak, this is just one example, not much people knows how to affect masses or not even few players, and how al works thats still mystery even for ones who have been in it[/quote]
)
"Flame the grinders" corner formarly Interview with a grinder
in Offtopic
Posted
[quote name='dst' post='30323' date='May 5 2009, 09:21 PM']Maybe the fact that there are almost no rules and features (except basic ones) for RP-ing helps the RP-ers the most. They are free to do whatever they want.They have the absolute freedom. What you could do to help? No idea... Maybe nothing cause in the moment you will bring rules and new features you will create some paths they will have to follow. So a part of the freedom will be lost or even worse:you\'ll reduce the game to a normal go there, click that, talk to NPC X ...tada! You\'re a delicate glass vase
[/quote]
I agree, giving up freedom for features is not a good thing.
There are lots of things that could safely add to the roleplay though. Right now we have discussions about items all over the forum. There's the factions that are intended to boost roleplay. A lot of people have (had) a list of suggestions/desires since(during) the festival. Granted a lot of those were about spells or abilities, but judging people and handing them out is beneficial to RP (although there will be lots of complaining, impatience and I wonder if it's even possible for one person to read all those papers), but there were other suggestions that don't imply power (except for looking 1337).
Eg. Shapeshifters having the ability to change their name from "Shapeshifter (form A)" to "Shapeshifter (form B)" at will. The only advantage they get is that people who enter the area later on, will know what form they are in. Not as big as the blue text thing, but still...
Personally i wanted to mess around with scripts, I don't even need much help for that (I think). I kinda assumed scripts weren't allowed though, they seldom are since they can be used for both good and evil.
And more paper! If you look at how i[url="http://magicduel.com/players/kafuuka"] 'solved' [/url]that problem... that's not the way it's supposed to be done right?
Now, a question:
You realize you're not as evil as you say? Not as pure a grinder as you say? You admit to having a (questionable) role, liking Baldur's Gate and thus you probably like quests and stories. You like trying new and fun ways to nudge the realm towards unbalance to see how people would respond. Actually roleplay is about doing little things and seeing how other players respond, what happens next. Whether or not roleplaying yourself is an interesting or a challenging role, is up for debate. And why not try the nudging on a smaller scale, afraid you'll like it?
We really should have an 'interview with a stat grinding godmodder', one who wont report bugs but keep them secret, will get upset when accused of abuse or when noticing things don't go as expected. Or purposely destroy the game because someone did not respond the way it was desired. The kind of person that does not accept criticism and wont like being interviewed about that. But since you're the 'evil' one, maybe you should suggest a candidate for that interview?