Menhir

[color=#808080][i](sorry chew i had to post after you closed it, you might want to open it again. Its good you closed it initially but some things need to be abswered by me on the cybersex topic)[/i][/color]

[b]The bad part 1[/b]
If the punk you are cybersexing with is under-aged, and because of his own imbecility his parents see the chat (keyloggers, parent monitoring, etc) MD (including the business and me as individual) will have to suffer terrible consequences for not asking you folks for age, checking it, putting all kind of shitty disclaimers for all sorts of frustrated people. And why not admit it, if it were my kid to do cybersex to someone online that he doesn't know a thing about i would react the same, quite violently.
MD is also not a dating site replacement. There are some people that might care about md for what it is while others will just open a chat window on some game called md that "allows it" and use it as you would use a tramp. I can't and won't "judge" your cybersex sessions to decide if it was fit or unfit to md spirit (imagine that!!), so there is no way "some" cybersex is fine while other is not fine, thats just ridiculous.


[b]The bad part 2[/b]
MD rules are built around a core of freedom. There are enough bending opportunities for every taste. forbidding cybersex conflicts with a basic concept ..the one that pushes me to expand the land. Its not like if we are all in one scene and bother eachother. MD is also not an academic gathering where you need to behave. Human behaviour in md is taged by what is called here role, or role-play. If your character is a culprit, if you talk shit, if you do bad things, that is you, fine with me. There are and will be rules against it, IF and only IF you get caught. There is a thin line where i put this freedom core aside and use unfair tools against "criminals", such as IP ban, log review and so on. I use those just when they get out of their role and the damage they do reaches out of md concept. CYBERSEX is not a crime, cybersex is a risk, a double risk. One part of the risk is that it will break that thin line between your character and you as a human citizen. The other risk is to the purpose and concept of md. The moment you use something out of md as a tool for other activities, and by that i mean here using the chat as a tool unrelated to md, you affect md concepts, you "rp" outside of md, but being in md so to say. I dont know how to explain better, i hope you ppl understand.


[b]The ugly part[/b]

Rules are rules, not applying them is not an option. The cybersex rule was not meant to be used for hunting people, but spells can be used as their owner wishes and hunting someone to find its potential crimes is also not a crime..otherwise police would be doing a crime by simply existing.
The only way i see to balance this serious situation that puts in conflict two solid md concepts, is through a new spell. If there is an ability to digg the past there should be an ability to hide the past. You will see what i mean in the announcements and no its not a chat delete spell, ..sort of.


I hope you read careful what i said in here because i said a lot in a way

Time to respond after the "great RP-er and cyber sex sexpert has posted" *cough*.

"It is well understood that this sort of behavior is against the rules, but I disagree with Dst's method of finding such behavior."
Sorry, as I told some people today: I flank The Good Manners and Diplomacy class. Sue me!

"Most of us are adults between 18 and older"
Errr...how would you know? I was not aware of the fact that you make statistics based on the age of the players.
Also, most is not enough.


"Haven't we seen too many war paths in the game already? Is there seriously a need for more useless arguments? No, there is absolutely not"
I totally agree. That's the reason why I asked for the topic I made to be closed. But apparently sasha felt an itch to comment. It's her right. But sasha, I advise you to scratch your itches in other ways. Learn something from the cyber sex-ers

"Give people room to correct their mistakes rather than attacking them for it, and absolutely never go after people and purposefully seek mistakes simply because you do not like them. That is pure abuse of any position said person might hold."

I don't like 90% of the MD population. So according to your logic I should never ever interact with them.Position? What position? Forum mod? Err...that's on the forum. LHO? I was never aware of the fact that LHOs posses any powers except the spells we receive and which I almost never use (except froggy cause it's funny).


"I do not think the log spell was ever intended to be used as a way to punish people you dislike for whatever reason you might find at the time. To my knowledge, it's to be used for record keeping. "
Oh dear amoran, dear amoran how innocence *cough* you are! You know as well as I do that spells are to be used in what manner the owner wants without having to respect any rules. C'mon! You disappoint me! Tzk tzk tzk tzk tzk...I'm going to sit in a corner and shed a tear for this great disappointment. Or not.


Let's see...who else should I reply to....Hmm...duxie (you're the lucky winner!)

"first a wall i agree with Brulant. rules must be in restrictions page. it should be clearly defined - you must obey the rules in _restrictions_ page. not in announcements, not in AL, not in page footer or someones PL. cmon, people, that should be pretty clear why.."
Ignorance is not an excuse. They are not noobs (or not all of them). They should have known by now how MD works. If not, there's always the possibility to ask someone. But apparently they did not care enough.

"[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]i think you must show the proof when accusing someone"[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Newsflash! I've already sent the proofs to the Council.[/font][/size] And in case you're curios, I can tell you a small gossip: they are amators. Amoran here could confirm if she would see the chats


"[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]so dst couldn't see more - it was the end of the conversation, and she came after me. there was nothing sexy in it. it was a conversation of a type: "you know i like you, i find you pretty", "oh, it's a pleasure to hear that"."[/font][/size]
Dst couldn't see more? pfff...you really undeestimate me or...you have no idea how the spell works...


"[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]and the third issue connected to the second one: not like i'm the type of such person, but i'm really interested in definition of cyber sex. can anyone explain me where are the limits of this thing? where it starts?"[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Amoran asked the same question 2 years ago and she got quite a lot of replies. I think you can still find the topic on the forum somewhere. [/font][/size]

The rest...hmm...you don't deserve my answers.

Again, I would have to agree with Amoran. The use of the Accoustic remains is not to go hunting down people. Dst is NOT someone who was given the right to go searching for people, humiliating them and overall harassing them by posting their name, location and what ever they were doing.

She is an LHO, NOT a police officer.

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif] [/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]first a wall i agree with Brulant. rules must be in restrictions page. it should be clearly defined - you must obey the rules in _restrictions_ page. not in announcements, not in AL, not in page footer or someones PL. cmon, people, that should be pretty clear why...[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]secondly, i think you must show the proof when accusing someone. not sure how, so unwanted eyes doesn't see it, but it is a must. at least for the person to try to explain himself. i've seen the chat dst is talking about in her first post. i was first in there to see it, so dst couldn't see more - it was the end of the conversation, and she came after me. there was nothing sexy in it. it was a conversation of a type: "you know i like you, i find you pretty", "oh, it's a pleasure to hear that".[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]and the third issue connected to the second one: not like i'm the type of such person, but i'm really interested in definition of cyber sex. can anyone explain me where are the limits of this thing? where it starts? i don't want to get blamed for leaving a compliment for someone in chat.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif][edit:][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]hmm... log spell... still lots to learn... welp, maybe dst used that and knows more then i do, then i do apologize. but i saw her wandering around, just after i left *shrugs*. anyways, none saw more then i did in normal way, and it was nothing serious.[/font][/size]

It is well understood that this sort of behavior is against the rules, but I disagree with Dst's method of finding such behavior. The community of MD does not need a watch dog to harass them into behaving.

Most of us are adults between 18 and older. I'm sure we know how to behave like adults.

I have said this once and I will say it again: Use a strict method to punishing players for breaking rules. Be reasonable about it. Do not create a war path.

Haven't we seen too many war paths in the game already? Is there seriously a need for more useless arguments? No, there is absolutely not.

Give people room to correct their mistakes rather than attacking them for it, and absolutely never go after people and purposefully seek mistakes simply because you do not like them. That is pure abuse of any position said person might hold.


In regards to spells and rules:
I do not think the log spell was ever intended to be used as a way to punish people you dislike for whatever reason you might find at the time. To my knowledge, it's to be used for record keeping.

Perhaps it should be made clear that there is a list of rules at the top of the page called 'restrictions'. To those who have not read them, please do to avoid this sort of thing from happening again.

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]I wish things were handled with more tact. The bluntness that many use comes across as quite harsh. It isn't necessary.[/font][/color]

[quote]1) Noobs wouldn't be able to access the area easily,
2) No one usually passes through.
3) That they knew what they were doing wasn't really "allowed" in the public, hence why they went for privacy.[/quote]


[i][color=#808080]Sasha, it was quoted before but I'll post it again with some parts in bold:[/color][/i]

[i][color=#808080][quote]As from now, due to the existance of a dedicated private place where you can talk anything you want, sexual explicit chats (more "types" pending to be added) will no longer be tolerated anywhere else in MD. This means that[b] if anyone catches you[/b] talking such things [b]anywhere[/b], labirint, [b]remote places[/b], not to mention public locations, you can get baned for it. There are a lot of kids playing and reading your ..things.. this can't be allowed anymore. Thank you for understanding.[/quote][/color][/i]

[i][color=#808080]and since where not knowing that something's illegal makes it ok to do so?[/color][/i]

[i][color=#808080]as for the part "I find it disgusting that you seem to always be looking out for other peoples mistakes when you have so many of your own. "[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]do you mean you'd treat the issue differently if someone else discovered it?[/color][/i]

I have to agree with what Sasha has been saying.

I am SICK and TIRED of all the harassment going on in this game. Where are all your spines, people? WHY AREN'T YOU STEPPING UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE FOR?

It's because you think that nothing will be done, right? Wrong.

There was absolutely NO need for this behavior. This is MALICIOUS and VINDICTIVE behavior simply because Dst dislikes Innocence and most of all, only wants to run people out of the game for her own personal pleasure.

Dst. I post here because yours seems to be locked, probably because you know what others would say to you.

Firstly I have to say that I find it disgusting that you seem to always be looking out for other peoples mistakes when you have so many of your own. Hypocritical of me? Maybe, but still applies to yourself.
Secondly, I assume they would be in a very remote location, meaning high viscosity, to do such a thing. This would mean that:
1) Noobs wouldn't be able to access the area easily,
2) No one usually passes through.
3) That they knew what they were doing wasn't really "allowed" in the public, hence why they went for privacy.

[u][b]I am not defending their actions. I am criticising [i]yours.[/i][/b][/u]

You know that there are other ways of dealing with this than posting in public their names and what they were doing, especially in a topic that is locked for your own, nasty, needs, meaning they cannot defend themselves. Rather sly and despicable behaviour, no?

A while back you accused Fenrir of [u][b]Harrasment[/b][/u] and [u][b]Slander.[/b][/u] Hypocritical? Seeing as you do this regularly to nearly everyone.

As a final point I would like to add:

[u][i]Not everyone knows about the [b]Sunny Bedroom [/b]perhaps next time tell them the rules and about the fore-mentioned place.[/i][/u]

[b][i][u]~Sasha[/u][/i][/b]

[b][i][u]Link to Dst's Post- [/u][/i][/b][url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10470-cyber-sex-strikes-again/"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10470-cyber-sex-strikes-again/[/url]

This topic is ancient and locked, however i want to post a reply to clear up some things that i initially missed to reply to:


[quote]How come Transfering high powered crits to alts or vice versa is different from transfering coins to buy high powered crits? [/quote]

you can train creatures better on a powerful main then use them to boost up a new created alt account. Coins have same value regardless if they are on a main or an alt. Converting coins into valuable goods requires interaction, you will buy the creatures as the alt account, meaning you will play that account. In my view that is acceptable compromise to allow multiple accounts.


[quote]Fine, now im going to transfere all my coins gained via FREE CREDITS to my main[/quote]

You WORKED all the same for the free credits on your alt as you would have on your main account, they are equally hard to gain. Having a 2000 days account with ultra powers wont change anything about how you click the freecredits links. Free credits links are the price paid to get that credit so once you get that credit from free credits it is equal to buying credits with cash. In fact, i am not storing spent "free credits" separately in the db from spent "paid credits". They are the same once you fulfill the minimum requirement to transfer them. no abuse involved.


The "danger" you are probably thinking at is that someone/all will start raising alts and flood the freecredits page with invalid votes that will eventually turn into silver for them. My ONLY reply to this real threat is that the activity generated by those alts both on md and on the outside toplists is an acceptable price to "pay" for md in the situation where md is slwoly dieing if you look at the activity. There are ways i will limit alts when the situation will require it, for now, as i predicted one year ago, the "coins are ok to trade" rule is "safe"


Maybe i am not to clear to you all, maybe you stopped trusting my judgement, i dont know what happens. Maybe i was away a long time with personal issues but i still believe i can forsee the impact of a rule or change and not only anticipate its outcome but actually use it. After a year of this topic..where is the tragedy? where are the swarms of players that float in free silver as you thought will be?

Everybody: I think Mur's reputation rating on the initial post speaks quite well about what the community feels. When else has Mur had negative ratings?


Mur: you may not realize what it's like to be a player, so I'll try to describe it. If the SoS was killed and the Tribunal proclaimed disbanded by the Council, I wouldn't run to them and ask to keep my citizenship, because as far as I know, this isn't a special situation. Did the Artisans keep their citizenship when they were disbanded? Did the Sentinels? This event is unprecedented, you're making the rules as you go. This, from the announcement, is proof itself:

[quote]King Jester reached a situation where he can't rule Necrovion anymore, (and no i won't allow elections because he still has a penalty point left so tehnically he still has the crown).[/quote]

He's still king but cannot rule the land? Why? He may not command alliances, but he's still got the kingship tool to give citizenship.

That aside, though, Jester's activity recently suggests he does not want to be king anymore and has given up on it, but that's what elections are for.

So, I guess because of Mur's new made up rules, the rest of us suffer by losing 1/4 of our (mainland) citizenship options and 1/4 of our leadership. It leaves me wondering, did the Council agree to this? Declaring a land closed seems like a game-changing issue that shouldn't be in the hands of a king, demi-god or not.

As a citizen of the Tribunal, I will follow Mur's wishes, but as a citizen of MD I can't see how this is working.

As for the rest of you arguing about the archives and stuff, I don't see any relevance, share a PM conversation if you want to argue about it that bad.

@Grido

quote
“It is written...somewhere (probably), that in each of us is god and the devil, and the battle for humankind is within each of us, perhaps those with a different mental make up are more aware of it?”

Well ... from my point of view this is one way to see it. I will put it into different words:

Everything is inside of us, we are everything! So everything must be us. Some of us are more aware of that “everything” and some are not. We are all unique and at the same time the same.

@Luke27

quote
“I actually believe that when you are labeled as an "insane" person you are an outcast of society. That's been the case every time.”

True.

10 years ago I started my way with raw foods. I was branded as insane from alot people who had not even a glimse of what they were talking about but myself had figured it out by trying not my reading or talking. I went trough whole proccesses only by changing my nutrition and still people tried to convince me that I was totally on the wrong path. I did not try beforehand to convince them of my ”way”, I was not even talking of it, I simply were walking my way.

For me it became very simple! There is no “good” or “bad”, nor is there an insane or sane being. We are what we are and everything can change everytime.


quote
“But what if "insanity" frees us from ourselves and makes us more aware of what is "around us" rather than what is "in front of us"(Sorry if I'm confusing but I don't have the right words for it).”

What are you sorry for, you just used the right words!

quote
“Then would you want to be "insane" or "normal"?”

Red or blue! I know for sure that everyone of us is asked this question in every second of our life, we are just not realising that we are answering it every second and so creating everything.

quote
“Nothing can make you feel more alive than yourselves and nothing else.”

That makes me smile, because its what I feel everyday abit more.

Thank you for giving me thoughts to think about.


@Mur

All your research, all your interest´s what are they good for? What are you searching for? I think you thought about that before and came to a conclusion wich keeps you on this “pathway”.
So in at least one point you are in the same situation. There is no rest! There is a force inside ourselfs, whatever you call it, in wich way you think of it dosen´t matter at all, it´s there and forces us forward (is it really a movement?). So we are all insane in the eyes of someone who is not at out level. There are many so called "normal" humans out there who, if you compare them, are totally insane for each other.

So what is the truth?

I still remember a part of an interview made with the indian Advaita – Teacher Ramesh Balsekar (I translate as best as I´m able too):

Question:

Sometimes you say “It is only a concept, it is not true!” What is the difference between a concept and the Truth?

Ramesh Baleskar:

“My concept says, whatever anyone said, ever Jesus, Buddha or Ramana Maharshi – is a concept. A concept is something that some peaple will doubt and some will agree with. The Truth from my point of understanding, is something that NONE can deny. Because of this the concepts of one religion are not accepted by another religion. The reason why we have religious wars. Is it possible that there is a ONE TRUTH in the world of appearances? The only undeniable truth for everyone is the impersonal consiousness of being. I am. In the moment someone is talking about this, is can become a concept too.” (connection 4/04 july august 2004 / page 49)

So for me your view of this being you meet in the train is your personal concept of the truth at your personal state of evolution.

I thank you for sharing this story with us, it remembered me of alot things I discoverd years ago and I looked back the whole way I walked from there.

I´m willing to learn the whole time wich is given to me on this planet and I´m open to whatever is out there.

Menhir

As far as I understood TTL, it´s not a matter of "having no free time" why he left MD. There is one principle wich works mostly perfect - "Love it or Leave it" wich means (for me) that everyone is free in his/her decision to choose his/her very own way! TTL did it.

Applause for being yourself!

All the best possible for you TTL (even if we never meet or talked).

Menhir

Why the Sun?


Because the Sun likes to play hide-and-seek. But, since it shines so brightly and burns too hot for others to come very close to it, it has nobody but itself to play. So, in order to overcome this, it must pretend it is not itself. But how does it do this?

The Sun dreams.

It dreams that it is each and every being in the universe; the stars, the stones, the animals (including humans), and the plants. In the Sun's dreams it has many wonderful adventures. It likes it so well, that it sometimes cannot recall where and how it hid itself. But, that's also just what it wants to do - for if it found itself to quickly, the game would surely end.

That is why it is hard for us to find it; the Sun is hiding itself in us.

In this game of hide-and-seek, the Sun always finds it fun to find new ways of hiding, and to seek for someone who doesn’t always hide in the same place.

However, if it went on and on forever, it would get very tired of itself. Therefor, there are times when the Sun is, and then there are times when it is not. It is like one's breath - in and out, in and out. If one tries to hold it in all the time, one would feel terrible.

Eventually, the game is over, all of us will wake up and remember that we are all one single Sun - the One that is all and lives forever and ever.

Just like a circle.

And as the Sun goes around like a circle, there will be no particular place where it 'begins.' There is night as there is day; there is waking as there is sleeping; there is living as there is dying; there is summer as there is winter. You cannot have any one of these without the other - for what is darkness unless you had seen it side by side with light, or light unless side by side with darkness? As a circle, it moves from an inner dynamic of cyclical patterns as it carries forth the four seasons in its yearly round. Within this web of relationships and change, [i]its entity can be defined only by its function, and its significance only as part of the whole pattern.[/i] Likewise, all of life goes through the four stages of birth, maturation, decline, and death.

The Sun is also the Self of the world, but it is too 'bright' to directly be seen - and that is for the similar reason that one requires a mirror to see one's own self. This is why many dominating religions are dogmatic and divisive, for they depend on swapping this view for one that separates the believers from the heretics - even though we are all cut from the same cloth. Their institutions demand loyalty to their cherry-picked definitions of 'purity.' Furthermore, no 'creator' would wreck the human mind by making it so rigid and unadaptive such as the ones who depend on any one book, such as the bible, for all of *the* answers.

Words can only, at best, point beyond themselves to a world of life and death and experiences that are so much more than words in and of themselves.

@Menhir, ..why i ask..well because in a vast complexity of questions and answers that sometimes looks like a dark impenetrable "forest", some questions aim to the end of the road in a straight line. While some questions find their answer fast or get lost in a pool of randomness, other questions take you further and reveal much more. I find this particular one (Why the sun?) to be aiming further away than my current borders. Isn't it then just normal to target outside the borders to see what is out there? For me that's a way of life.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1310608998' post='87863']
@Menhir, ..why i ask..well because in a vast complexity of questions and answers that sometimes looks like a dark impenetrable "forest", some questions aim to the end of the road in a straight line. While some questions find their answer fast or get lost in a pool of randomness, other questions take you further and reveal much more. I find this particular one (Why the sun?) to be aiming further away than my current borders. Isn't it then just normal to target outside the borders to see what is out there? For me that's a way of life.
[/quote]

Thank you Mur nice anwser. I´m completely with you in this and have only one thing to add to your reply.

The only difference for me in this very moment/phase of my life is that this -> "Isn't it then just normal to target outside the borders to see what is out there?" <- is my ONLY way (only at my momentary level of my personal life). To put it into other words: to leave my own comfort zone and explore the "New", the "Unknown" or I could say to remember the "Forgotten" knowledge wich is hidden deep inside of us, I often need pain and suffering, the so called "bad" experiences to discover what or who I am too!

Menhir

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1310600807' post='87860']

Eventually, the game is over, all of us will wake up and remember that we are all one single Sun - the One that is all and lives forever and ever.
[/quote]

This will happen sooner or later and everyone who is working on his multiple fears will conquer the "new land" wich will appear behind our momentary consciousness.

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1310600807' post='87860']

Words can only, at best, point beyond themselves to a world of life and death and experiences that are so much more than words in and of themselves.
[/quote]

thank you! You used them wisely.

Menhir

I am a little bit late (travelled through india for the sixth time when Mur startetd this topic) and people might have forgotten his question already, nevertheless I will write something wich crossed my mind when I was reading some of the given answers.

The first thing was: "As above So below".

Endless people are talking about a light inside ourselfs but you can believe it or find out by yourselfs. I do not believe things - I have to prove them by myself instead. So I started looking and after awhile I saw the Sun inside myself - I saw much more than this mighty pure light but there were so many more things that I had to stop in this particular moment. So I KNOW there is a Sun inside myself, attending the “rest” of the universe. Then I saw the Sun in someone else, well I was not surprised but amazed . “As above So below” – If there is a Sun wich we can see, there must be one inside ourselfs. If there are shades outside ourselfs, there are shades inside ourselfs for sure. Everything wich exist “outside” is automaticly “inside” and there is a point where one can understand (means KNOW) that there is neither an outside nor an inside. Everything is existing and at the same time there is nothing. <- these are just words but it´s possible to have the experience to see/feel/understand, finnaly KNOW that it´s like I try to put into weak words.

Why it´s called "Soldiers of the Inner Sun" (if Mur´s questions was referring to the title) I don´t know yet clearly. A soldier from my point of view stands for "fighting" and "war" and there was nothing like "fighting" or "war" combined with my inner sun, but there might be another interpretation of the word "soldier".

So the second thing was crawling towards me hiding behind a curtain of mist:

If you see something like the Sun and in this case you don´t need to make a difference between inner or outer Sun, if you see it with you own eyes/mind/awareness you are so sure about what you see/experience because that is what you think you are - consciousness/awareness.

Are you?

Were do you know it from?

From the same consciousness?

Well ... there is much more beyond this and again I touch it only with words and nothing will help me to explain it with agglutinated letters, but to realise this through real knowing is the most suffusing experience I had so far.

So why the Sun?

Why <- the most powerful word in the whole universe brings us to neverending questions (I quote Mur here)!
If we are trying to explain things with seperated minds you end up with open ends. To answer every question until the end we need to put all ourselfs into it and I mean it word by word.

We need our material way of forced living, I use the terms “needs and fears” for this.

We need also our so called “spiritual” way of being, that could be everything outside ourself wich we are not really aware of in our daily lifetime, call it soul or whatever you may like to call it.

And finally we need our philosophically thinking (understanding) - lets use the words “manly logic”.

Each of those three separated from each other will not get anyone to any real conclusion but if one can succeed to put all three together, combine them to a “big one pot”, to a universal understanding and make it useful and possible to evolve to that kind of “new knowledge” (in the end everything is old and at the same time ageless) – if one can do that he/she/it will really KNOW.

Well what´s this blubbering all about and why do I write it here and now – I´m nearly always honest – I don´t know! It crossed “my” mind and I put it into those clumsy words above.

Why the Sun?

Why is Mur asking this question?

This is my most sensible question I can ask back and I got many answers for it at the same time .

Menhir

I am a little bit late (travelled through india for the sixth time when Mur startetd this topic) and people might have forgotten his question already, nevertheless I will write something wich crossed my mind when I was reading some of the given answers.

The first thing was: "As above So below".

Endless people are talking about a light inside ourselfs but you can believe it or find out by yourselfs. I do not believe things - I have to prove them by myself instead. So I started looking and after awhile I saw the Sun inside myself - I saw much more than this mighty pure light but there were so many more things that I had to stop in this particular moment. So I KNOW there is a Sun inside myself, attending the “rest” of the universe. Then I saw the Sun in someone else, well I was not surprised but amazed . “As above So below” – If there is a Sun wich we can see, there must be one inside ourselfs. If there are shades outside ourselfs, there are shades inside ourselfs for sure. Everything wich exist “outside” is automaticly “inside” and there is a point where one can understand (means KNOW) that there is neither an outside nor an inside. Everything is existing and at the same time there is nothing. <- these are just words but it´s possible to have the experience to see/feel/understand, finnaly KNOW that it´s like I try to put into weak words.

Why it´s called "Soldiers of the Inner Sun" (if Mur´s questions was referring to the title) I don´t know yet clearly. A soldier from my point of view stands for "fighting" and "war" and there was nothing like "fighting" or "war" combined with my inner sun, but there might be another interpretation of the word "soldier".

So the second thing was crawling towards me hiding behind a curtain of mist:

If you see something like the Sun and in this case you don´t need to make a difference between inner or outer Sun, if you see it with you own eyes/mind/awareness you are so sure about what you see/experience because that is what you think you are - consciousness/awareness.

Are you?

Were do you know it from?

From the same consciousness?

Well ... there is much more beyond this and again I touch it only with words and nothing will help me to explain it with agglutinated letters, but to realise this through real knowing is the most suffusing experience I had so far.

So why the Sun?

Why <- the most powerful word in the whole universe brings us to neverending questions (I quote Mur here)!
If we are trying to explain things with seperated minds you end up with open ends. To answer every question until the end we need to put all ourselfs into it and I mean it word by word.

We need our material way of forced living, I use the terms “needs and fears” for this.

We need also our so called “spiritual” way of being, that could be everything outside ourself wich we are not really aware of in our daily lifetime, call it soul or whatever you may like to call it.

And finally we need our philosophically thinking (understanding) - lets use the words “manly logic”.

Each of those three separated from each other will not get anyone to any real conclusion but if one can succeed to put all three together, combine them to a “big one pot”, to a universal understanding and make it useful and possible to evolve to that kind of “new knowledge” (in the end everything is old and at the same time ageless) – if one can do that he/she/it will really KNOW.

Well what´s this blubbering all about and why do I write it here and now – I´m nearly always honest – I don´t know! It crossed “my” mind and I put it into those clumsy words above.

Why the Sun?

Why is Mur asking this question?

This is my most sensible question I can ask back and I got many answers for it at the same time .

Menhir

I am a little bit late (travelled through india for the sixth time when Mur startetd this topic) and people might have forgotten his question already, nevertheless I will write something wich crossed my mind when I was reading some of the given answers.

The first thing was: "As above So below".

Endless people are talking about a light inside ourselfs but you can believe it or find out by yourselfs. I do not believe things - I have to prove them by myself instead. So I started looking and after awhile I saw the Sun inside myself - I saw much more than this mighty pure light but there were so many more things that I had to stop in this particular moment. So I KNOW there is a Sun inside myself, attending the “rest” of the universe. Then I saw the Sun in someone else, well I was not surprised but amazed . “As above So below” – If there is a Sun wich we can see, there must be one inside ourselfs. If there are shades outside ourselfs, there are shades inside ourselfs for sure. Everything wich exist “outside” is automaticly “inside” and there is a point where one can understand (means KNOW) that there is neither an outside nor an inside. Everything is existing and at the same time there is nothing. <- these are just words but it´s possible to have the experience to see/feel/understand, finnaly KNOW that it´s like I try to put into weak words.

Why it´s called "Soldiers of the Inner Sun" (if Mur´s questions was referring to the title) I don´t know yet clearly. A soldier from my point of view stands for "fighting" and "war" and there was nothing like "fighting" or "war" combined with my inner sun, but there might be another interpretation of the word "soldier".

So the second thing was crawling towards me hiding behind a curtain of mist:

If you see something like the Sun and in this case you don´t need to make a difference between inner or outer Sun, if you see it with you own eyes/mind/awareness you are so sure about what you see/experience because that is what you think you are - consciousness/awareness.

Are you?

Were do you know it from?

From the same consciousness?

Well ... there is much more beyond this and again I touch it only with words and nothing will help me to explain it with agglutinated letters, but to realise this through real knowing is the most suffusing experience I had so far.

So why the Sun?

Why <- the most powerful word in the whole universe brings us to neverending questions (I quote Mur here)!
If we are trying to explain things with seperated minds you end up with open ends. To answer every question until the end we need to put all ourselfs into it and I mean it word by word.

We need our material way of forced living, I use the terms “needs and fears” for this.

We need also our so called “spiritual” way of being, that could be everything outside ourself wich we are not really aware of in our daily lifetime, call it soul or whatever you may like to call it.

And finally we need our philosophically thinking (understanding) - lets use the words “manly logic”.

Each of those three separated from each other will not get anyone to any real conclusion but if one can succeed to put all three together, combine them to a “big one pot”, to a universal understanding and make it useful and possible to evolve to that kind of “new knowledge” (in the end everything is old and at the same time ageless) – if one can do that he/she/it will really KNOW.

Well what´s this blubbering all about and why do I write it here and now – I´m nearly always honest – I don´t know! It crossed “my” mind and I put it into those clumsy words above.

Why the Sun?

Why is Mur asking this question?

This is my most sensible question I can ask back and I got many answers for it at the same time .

Menhir