sad conclusion

[Muratus del Mur]

as i see nobody from necrovion, with or without a king, bothered to document the recent major events involving necrovion in necrovions historic documents section. If the fall of a land is not historic enough for you..no comment, as i thought.

dont pretend later you still want to be nc citizens or that you are interested in what happens with it.

[Peace]

You might as well waited for us to get the right words to express this.

It isn't an easy thing for us either, to see one of the most important lands (in my opinion at least) on its downfall from nothing else but political issues. It is a land that has caused conflict in the past and has suffered from it, were it an action or a person that caused it. Yet it survived but it caused it to stagnate. All those in political position, including me as well, made sure of it.

After Khalazdad, the land took a different direction. Some of us chose to rule it peacefully but it wasn't what others wanted forcing us to take different actions and trigger disaster.

I still haven't been able to gather my pieces and speak of it, the only thing I can say is that it was an innevitable thing to happen, we ALL are the cause of this more or less. But perhaps now people will realise what Necrovion really is and what it means.

No King anymore? I find it fitting. I objected the first time elections for Necrovion took place, even if I was the one elected. There should never be a King or Queen in a land that was inhabited long before we all came into the picture and had someone or something with power over it already.
No alliances? What is a badge other than a symbol that follows you around when most did not even know why they wore it on the first place.
No homeland? Home is where your heart is, where your allegiances lie.

You say it is a conclusion. I think of it as a fresh start. It will take time but we have plenty of it. Those who were true in Necrovion will stay and preserve its values.

[Jubaris]

I really don't see any land using its History category properly, so I wouldn't jump at Necrovion for this.

I think that every land should have its own historians, cause that's what a land prestige requires it to, but it's a thing that community should develop on their own, not pointed by you Mur like they are missing an obligation.
I think whole realm is too used that they should follow some game mechanic rules, and nobody cares to create some kind of state identity, institutions.

I am still of belief that communities should create their own social systems, cause while you're pointing on how should people rule themselves, you're ruining the observing role you (I figure) wanted?
What's the point of having psychology observation experiment if you tell people how to act?

A side note, I haven't seen an article by the archivists for years now, regarding anything.

[Chewett]

Yeah, i wouldnt really shout at the necro people for not using their historic documents, Since no land is using them, Nor have i seen the archivests writing up events and such.

[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/8590-necrovion-succession/page__view__findpost__p__90420"]This topic[/url] was probably the closest, where peace tells everyone that only a necrovion should write up the events, and that she wants patience. Yet i would have thought the main event has happened, it would have been a perfect time to write it up.

[Curiose]

The only reason why Archivists haven't gotten anything done is.. well, oh gee, [b]there were only 2 of them. [/b]Je suis abandoned MD, Ivorak and Pample left for Necrovion, Renavoid was just... Renavoid. And he left, too. Rendril codes for MD and Inno has a life outside of MD. Would it really seem fair to point the dirty finger at people for living a life of their own, or even maybe helping MD in itself?

And really... how often is it that there is actually stuff to record that people aren't stuffing up in their yim convos or their 'secret' meetings, eh? What exactly is out there to be palpable and researchable instead of it being a bunch of stupid fluff that people will discredit and claim never happened?

Nothing. Nothing is out there and you know why? Because people are stuck up their egos and their information hoarding that they fail to realize the impact of what happens.


I have heard it said over and over again that there is nothing to record. Nothing to convey into writing. That NOTHING was going on. Especially by some of the 'veterans.' They say that the archivists that the legend speakers are obsolete. And now,at the first major thing that happens, you go and say that we're not doing our job!? For christ's sake. How can you even make the assumption?

Fyrd has TRIED making the community get more actively involved. If there's anything you have to blame, blame the people who don't care enough to be involved except in their little bubble of spice and flowers.


Now. On topic:
It is sad that Necrovion has to fall due to the blundering of its 'king.' But as Peace has said, perhaps a fresh beginning would be best for all.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Curiose

[Seigheart]

I would like to see the Shade Sentinel return to Necrovion to rule once more.

[Muratus del Mur]

I wasn't even refering to the legend speakers, lately thats just a reason for a nice logo in my opinion, not much more. There is inno that tries hard to do things now and then, and the others that keep the ally as a trophy of times long gone. I was refering to the citizens that not very long ago cryied about whats going on with their land and now i haven't seen a damn reaction. The only involvement i saw was from a couple of people before the events...people involved directly with the events.

Azull for example, he was recommended by jester as the next king, i told jester he cant name the next king directly, but if he was aiming for the kingship i would have expected him to react somehow for nc citizens..like for example ask that their citizenship is maintained..anyone could have asked that (before i announced it will) but him most of all should have asked that...thats just an example. You like to stay and watch and wonder what would happen to you next but dont move a finger.

I dont refer to all of you but i cant give names about who was actively involved in this, trying to actually keep necrovions integrity despite what was going on, but i know. From my point of view it was a test in a way, a test to prove "rebel" means basically nothing more than a personal grudge and not a real concern for the land.

[Curiose]

I was referencing that to Rhaegar's and Chewett's response. I including LS considering that what we do is in lieu with what the archivists do.

I understand what you mean, though, Mur. It just seemed like Necrovion turned out to be the big tourist attraction that everyone wanted to get into because it was 'closed.'

Edited August 21, 2011 by Curiose

[Dragual]

So that's it? No more Necrovion? Is there no way for the citizens to try and resolve this issue?

[Kyphis the Bard]

What Archivists there are generally have specialized roles. Myself, for example, am working hard to gather information on characters of important impact on the MD community so that if someone who deserves entry into the book of legends departs forever, they will not be forgotten.

Events such as this get my interest, but with the way people operate now (via YIM, etc) it is almost impossible to find all the facts. There are too many "whys" to write anything more than conjecture without being on the inside.
Which is a shame, because this is the exact sort of thing that would get someone into the history books. Second king of Necrovion, Second Rebellion (first with interface), pushing the limits of what kings can do, First land disbanded, wars, the early events in the Archives, the chase of Pamplemousse... a Longer story, but the latest chapters are going to take a long time to unravel.

Just because you don't See the fruits of labour does not mean one is not Labouring.

[Azull]

[quote]as i see nobody from necrovion, with or without a king, bothered to document the recent major events involving necrovion in necrovions historic documents section.[/quote]

What I will say is not meant as an excuse. But I still want it noted to clarify things. Currently I am traveling and haven't been on MD and the forum a lot. I am aware of recent events however and indeed perhaps should have responded publicly sooner.

[quote]Azull for example, he was recommended by jester as the next king, i told jester he cant name the next king directly, but if he was aiming for the kingship i would have expected him to react somehow for nc citizens..like for example ask that their citizenship is maintained..anyone could have asked that (before i announced it will) but him most of all should have asked that...thats just an example. You like to stay and watch and wonder what would happen to you next but dont move a finger.[/quote]

I have been playing MD for almost a year now. And in that time I have learned it is often best to wait and see a little while before acting. I have not asked for anything because I felt it was not my place (yet) to do so. I, together with Peace, have been using the tools we had at our disposal to return NC citizenship to some who lost it as a result of the destruction of the Tainted Warriors. (something I feel very strongly about and so think it best not to talk about for a while yet)

I could write many paragraphs here about talks I had with Jester and rebels alike concerning plans for the future of NC and things that were slowly set in motion. But all that seems meaningless now so I won't.

That is all I have to say for now.

[Fyrd Argentus]

I feel compelled to reply to this remark:
[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1313960203' post='90532']
I wasn't even refering to the legend speakers, lately thats just a reason for a nice logo in my opinion, not much more. [/quote]

Legend Speakers consists of just 3 active players, but we are very active.

BFH - the chief advertiser.
Curiose - Secret Ary, head of Treasure Keepers, promotor of Story Night.
Me - trying hard to get articles up in "People in the News" and organizing helping organize events (MDA Festival, 6th anniv not long ago, and the never-ending Lost Path Adventure). I've been trying for a long time (and sadly failing) to get the story on Necrovion....

I'd say our alliance is doing better than average in contributing to MD and staying true to our mission.

I know this is way off topic, but I needed to respond....

[xrieg]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1313962835' post='90535']
(...)
I understand what you mean, though, Mur. It just seemed like Necrovion turned out to be the big tourist attraction that everyone wanted to get into because it was 'closed.'
[/quote]
To the best of my knowledge, very few people entered NV since it became opened with high AP entry barrier (that has just been ioncreased 500->666). That would be myself and Lone Wolf (tourism was not major issue here). There were also 2 Necrovions opening Necro (and accidental entries happened with ppl then entering and getting trapped).

LE: I have just learned about one tourism trip; still short from major attraction :-)

Edited August 22, 2011 by xrieg

[Pipstickz]

Everybody: I think Mur's reputation rating on the initial post speaks quite well about what the community feels. When else has Mur had negative ratings?


Mur: you may not realize what it's like to be a player, so I'll try to describe it. If the SoS was killed and the Tribunal proclaimed disbanded by the Council, I wouldn't run to them and ask to keep my citizenship, because as far as I know, this isn't a special situation. Did the Artisans keep their citizenship when they were disbanded? Did the Sentinels? This event is unprecedented, you're making the rules as you go. This, from the announcement, is proof itself:

[quote]King Jester reached a situation where he can't rule Necrovion anymore, (and no i won't allow elections because he still has a penalty point left so tehnically he still has the crown).[/quote]

He's still king but cannot rule the land? Why? He may not command alliances, but he's still got the kingship tool to give citizenship.

That aside, though, Jester's activity recently suggests he does not want to be king anymore and has given up on it, but that's what elections are for.

So, I guess because of Mur's new made up rules, the rest of us suffer by losing 1/4 of our (mainland) citizenship options and 1/4 of our leadership. It leaves me wondering, did the Council agree to this? Declaring a land closed seems like a game-changing issue that shouldn't be in the hands of a king, demi-god or not.

As a citizen of the Tribunal, I will follow Mur's wishes, but as a citizen of MD I can't see how this is working.

As for the rest of you arguing about the archives and stuff, I don't see any relevance, share a PM conversation if you want to argue about it that bad.

[Peace]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1313995614' post='90570']
He's still king but cannot rule the land? Why? He may not command alliances, but he's still got the kingship tool to give citizenship.
[/quote]

Jester lost all of his tools and abilities the moment he entered the dreamworld and got trapped there. Only two items were safe after the last remaining ally was disbanded and those were the Royal Seal Ring and the Queller, in the hands of Azull. Myself and him and a couple other TW restored our citizenship but the tools got removed in the end as they weren't ours to keep nor we had any kind of authority over them.

Currently Necrovion has nobody in charge, we do not regroup or try anything else until Jester's trial and hanging is over. We have no tools in our disposal and for the moment we do not need them. Consider Necrovions now to be like the cave people before fire was invented.

[Pipstickz]

Why sit in a cave when you know you can do so much more?

[Muratus del Mur]

About legend speakers: I might have gone to hard on the legendspeakers. I dont argue their individual activity in different areas as players, but their activity to the purpose of the guild..and here is not the topic for this.

About my made up rules: Yes I probably do rules as we go, if you like to see it this way. I like to see it that i follow a path and sometimes rules need to be added or ignored to keep to that path..but the path never changes. To lead means to be able to do that, otherwise you are just a good follower of rules, not a leader. MD is a ship and i am its captain. You learn to steer a ship according to rules to get from point A to point B, but in action you sometimes need to bend the rules or the rules change independently of you as you go and you need to adapt otherwise your path changes even if you followed the rules perfectly. Nature forces are what cause rule bending for a ship, player actions are what cause it in MD.

About council agreeing or not: If i remember right I think they wished for elections as this was the normal thing to do. However they know that the odd decisions belong to me and this was not a very normal situation either. I am fully responsible for what and why happened.

[Pipstickz]

So you just HAD to throw a man overboard to keep your ship on course?

[Seigheart]

Keeping with the ship analogy, there is always a lift raft, or flotation device of some kind. Mur does not generally make someone walk the plank without some way to ensure their survival...

[Muratus del Mur]

"sort of" - to both of the above posts.
that man was throwing himself, i just put a plank under his feet to make it integrated with the landscape

[Fire Starter]

*laughs* I just looove such topics. Mur, you have a nice way of forcing people to talk.

I will continue to say nothing, and the reasons are, in some twisted way (real life elections, of which I am part of right now), too much related with MD.

I have asked few of the more active (in my opinion) Necrovion sitizens if I can be of assistance, but no definitive answers so far.
Right now I see the ship just floating with an unknown current, and few of the active crew have abandoned it already.
Maybe some of the reasons come from the fact that, as Pipstickz has stated a quote from the Announcement, we are using the "wait&see" tool right now, rather than taking any actions. You always leave the door "some time in the future things will change and fall into place", so we have taken that route.

A history document is written when a happening has ended.
If the events are still in motion how can we write about them in a historic document?

Edited October 8, 2011 by Fire Starter

[Fyrd Argentus]

You can document the events of the time. The document then becomes historic as well as the event.

[Azull]

There are still loyal Necrovians left. And yes, some of us are still official citizens even
.
That we are not seen to take any action, doesn't mean we aren't.
I dare say it's the Necrovian way to move in shadows. (or should be at least)

For now we have no desire to publicly document what has happened or what we are doing.

[Ravenstrider]

Still a citizen... And still a rebel... Though who I'm rebelling against is beyond me... Probably was the first time around...

Nothing is over until the fat lady sings... And I haven't heard Azull sing yet, so... Thish ain't over yet, shony!

[Dragual]

Ravenstrider, do you ever plan on regaining Necrovion citizenship? Because Treason and insulting one of the higher officials of Necrovion, does not seem to be the best way to go if you ask me. As far as I'm aware, it would be over for you, not for the rest of us. You rebels were only successful in aiding in Necrovion's downfall. Was that your objective? To cause more problems for Necrovion?