How can resources be fixed unsplittable groups

[Muratus del Mur]

An other apparent unrealistic behaviour of md features can be seen in the way resources are presented.

As you know, you can gather resources but not split them into batches or transfer just some of them. They behave as if they are one item with a score attached to it. Technically thats what they are, but this is also for a reason.

One practical reason is related to the fact that i dont want resources to keep same value regardless of quantity. With the current way, if someone has 10000 resources of some sort he cant ask 10000 the price of 1 by selling one by one. He needs to sell it in one batch. Not to mention some items use "more or less" resoruces, and not a fixed value, making lower batches more efficient than bigger batches have a lot more waste.

There is however an other reason, one i would normaly not share like i do now and leave it for "research" but..eh..there is enough to research as it is,
so..

resources, are imaginary in md, they are information,..or.. if seen from a character perspective they are imprinted energy nothing more. The items have no size, no weight yet they are in you inventory. A RESOURCE does not change in quantity but in "reality". Its imprint becomes more and more clearer to the owner when collecting more fragments of that memeory (resoruce gathering). This is what quantity means, it actualy means the power of that items memory. Thats why they are undividable.


This makes perfect sense to the way resoruces are used (or will be in cauldrons). You need more of that specific thing "memory" to make it interact with something else. In other words you need a different "quantity" of something to make that thing more or less relevant in relation to other ingredients. Simple.


I could go on about this, because its same way healing works for example. and a lot a lot more. In fact , in the outerworld, we touch items and see them but we also feel them (more or less consciously) too. that feeling is the same thing i mean here.

[Maebius]

I always imagined this was more to the fact that it 'forced' us to share, and organize communities. Similar to how PMs and such are limited to "in person, or recently so" contact in-game.

With the concept of alt abuse trying to be avoided, and Viscosity making us work together, I always figured Resources were an additional "feature" of that same theme. Make friends, or at least business relationships, with the other minds of MD out here.

Thanks Mur!

Edited August 12, 2011 by Maebius

[Phantom Orchid]

I understand the idea presented by Mur for resources, but I do not believe that this idea is being implemented in the way it was intended to. For example, I know at least 2 out of 3 of those who are able to collect memory stones are using multiple alts to deposit gathered stones so that they do not accumulate/stack in their main account. So these resources are being divided in a way that was not intended.

[dragonrider7]

I was about to suggest something, and I saw this to be the right place. I agree with items like memory, knowledge etc which cant be splitted, but items like water, branches, lumber etc can be quantified, they are measurable, so I feel it would be better if we could quantify it for example

Water - in litres (say player has 15 water and say 10 Water makes 1 litres and then it should become 1lit Water and 5Water (2 items). Similarly other items. I am just putting a possibility here.
Sand - In kg
Branch - In numbers

Another thing would be to globalize the item trade by setting up a Resource shop (similar to the armor shop), so that the collectors can dump in their collections and people can buy on their own (resources are to be consumed and hence trade is necessary) and the money goes to the treasury of the respective guilds. I know it requires a lot of effort but I would feel it is good and it will help the collectors too.

-rider

[Chewett]

[quote name='dragonrider7' timestamp='1313336450' post='90122']
Another thing would be to globalize the item trade by setting up a Resource shop (similar to the armor shop), so that the collectors can dump in their collections and people can buy on their own (resources are to be consumed and hence trade is necessary) and the money goes to the treasury of the respective guilds. I know it requires a lot of effort but I would feel it is good and it will help the collectors too.
[/quote]

The trading and non splitting encourages non hoarding and such, if people can buy specific amounts that allows splitting and means the collectors will really push for tons. Laziness would be encouraged if it was just a shop, i like the fact you find, and trade with these guys,

[dragonrider7]

I would have no problem in chasing and get the items from other, the shop suggestion was pretty secondary :-) , but I would like to see some way to quantify the resources.
As a WaterDowser in my PoV....let me say...now we have glass, let us have some glass bottles with different quantities (1 lir, 2lit etc) and fill them and store it as a different item . Similarly for sand lets have sand bottles or sack...Its just a suggestion, there can be better ways.

-rider

[Passant the Weak]

i feel that bottles will serve for that. Yet it does not mean you should be allowed to split ressources like water or so.

Similarly heat Jars allow to store heat, while you can not spli the heat you are holding at one moment (besides storing it in group in a device). if you want to store specific amount of ressource (say water), you will need an appropriate container like a borrle with the right size.

I feel comfortable with that (although i am ressource manufacturer): it helps a lot keeping the market price low.

[Shadowseeker]

At the same time I am wondering whether more really helps actually. Just like little high purity plutonium can cause a nuclear reaction with lots of energy, a lot of coal lumped together will burn hot but nowhere as near as the pure one..

I mean, the more one has, the harder it is to "distill" the information.

Am I just having a stray thought or not?

[Muratus del Mur]

its how it already works ss, think of the sand to glass process, the more you have the more you waste

[dragonrider7]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1313501492' post='90225']
its how it already works ss, think of the sand to glass process, the more you have the more you waste
[/quote]
Does that mean you should collect resource only by a fixed quantity, which you want to use for some purpose? ......I would say to avoid accumulation, it has to be split into smaller modules and stored.

-rider

[No one]

Let bring back some old talk and I will raise 2 provocations.

Yea, the idea that Mur is proposing could be great but in a land with a lot more resources and a lot more resource gathering tools.


So, today I disagree with MUR on :
[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1313501492' post='90225']
its how it already works ss, think of the sand to glass process, the more you have the more you waste
[/quote]
If you don't disagree with MUR, then ... lets ask Council to change (actually to fix) the recipes to "how Mur said". Then [color=#0000ff][u]I provoke you to make a tea party in Mur's conditions[/u][/color].
As Mur described it, you will have enough resources for just 1 (one) tea each time (or the price increases by the the amount of resources you have). For each sip of tea you will need to buy / harvest from 4 different things.


[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1313336593' post='90123']
The trading and non splitting encourages non hoarding and such, if people can buy specific amounts that allows splitting and means the collectors will really push for tons. Laziness would be encouraged if it was just a shop, i like the fact you find, and trade with these guys,
[/quote]
[color=#0000cd][u]Chewett, I provoke you to collect[/u][/color]. You are making me lazy because I "hoard" resources and I am all for "hoarding" ? I call you lazy for not knowing what collecting really means.
If you agree with Chewett, I provoke you too:
1. Grab a tool, collect your first 100 resources.
2. Make some recipes using Mur's initial idea.


I would like to make this idea of Mur invalid to all (or most) resource. Splitting resources / trading parts of your pile of resources would encourage trading, player interactivity, RP and ... you name it ... the entire flow of resources. And all will be possible because ppl like me will be lazy enough to spend their entire day just gathering and hoarding.

Edited March 7, 2013 by No one

[Chewett]

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1362696089' post='133588']
[color=#0000cd][u]Chewett, I provoke you to collect[/u][/color]. You are making me lazy because I "hoard" resources and I am all for "hoarding" ? I call you lazy for not knowing what collecting really means.
If you agree with Chewett, I provoke you too:
1. Grab a tool, collect your first 100 resources.
2. Make some recipes using Mur's initial idea.
[/quote]


Dowsing: 10 (10.5)
Waterhandling: 17 (17.17)
Experimentalism: 7 (7.14)
*filtering: 7 (7.24)

Already done.

[No one]

With this knowledge (I think you did not had those stats on "14 August 2011 - 06:43 PM") answer truthfully :
[color=#0000ff][u]Do you still consider resource "hoarders" [/u][/color][color=#0000ff][u]lazy ?[/u][/color]

If you do, please explain it to me. I fail to understand and for 1 month I tried to see it myself.