skill increase for defending

[Mighty Pirate]

Currently all players at MP5 who idle in a public location risk to lose skills by getting skill damage. What about the opposite: Why not giving a reward for being in a public place? A possible solution would be to give a small stats increase, say 0.1% for 8 hours. I hope this would reinforce more in game fighting and also less people hiding in remote places.

Still, this is not an idea ready to be implemented, more a debate, thats why I post it here. I'm curious to hear your opinions.

[lone wolf pup]

Idle with no creatures. Also, someone with 100k attack would get 800 attack for idleing for 8 hours.

Edit: To not just shut it down, why not add a set cap or something, if your stat isn't high enough, you will probably lose some stats for idling in a public area anyhow.. specially if more people stay there..

Edit 2: How would it effect people with -stats? Lose stats for idling in the park even more? >>

Edit 3: I suppose adding a minimum stat gain of maybe 3 in each.. would maybe cancel it out.. maybe..

Edited September 18, 2011 by lone wolf pup

[Blood Prince]

Not a good idea for the exact reason Lone Wolf said. Better or much plausible solution would be to take off skill damage when one defending against such players. Skill damage to apply only when the player defending wins. That simple adjustment could make a lot of MP5's come out of hiding.

[Mighty Pirate]

[quote name='lone wolf pup' timestamp='1316349375' post='92177']
Idle with no creatures. Also, someone with 100k attack would get 800 attack for idleing for 8 hours.
[/quote]

no creatures are no problem - if your goal is to get more stats no creatures are not a good idea anyways. And the 100k attack: Compare him to someone with 99k attack - the difference does not matter at all.

(And on second thought 0.1 % of 100 k is just 100 So he would just get 100 attack for 8 hours)

Edited September 18, 2011 by Mighty Pirate

[lone wolf pup]

If that was true, then it'd negate the updates where fugitives gain stat damage. Which I would love to see, but not sure it'll happen. I say adjust the stat damage to lose what the attacker gains instead of just losing all stats no matter what damage is dealt.. but isn't this off topic. Or not, I'm horrible with what's on/off topic.

[Shadowseeker]

It doesn't make sense to just disable skilldamage out of the blue though.

I do however agree that defenders should get a bonus for winning- after all, the attacker can freely use [spoiler] combo [/spoiler], while the defender has absolutely none of that. While attacking might be better in terms of "real" fighting, the proportional gains are not the same.

Think of someone who prepares a gun, readies himself with equipment to attack someone who just has a dagger. The one with the dagger wins. Wouldn't you think the one with the dagger learned more than the one attacking?

[lone wolf pup]

I don't like your idea shadowseeker, then it'd make combo training even more effective. I mean I would like it.. but it'd just make training a bit different, not much >>I wonder how would that work out if people needed losses.

Edited September 18, 2011 by lone wolf pup

[xrieg]

I would prefer to hear _why_ was it awarded first. Whatever the reason basically when Eon is active MD becomes ampty within 30 min for MP5 - no even increased activity in sanctuaries. I do occasionally Tribunal trips for that time - but to the best of my knowledge I am one of the very few who do anything like that. Most ppl just log out. Well, those allied and balanced could try to go MP6 - the same training and no risk.
As for countermeasures - all ppl who care about training have no enough spell to disable skilldamage effectively for 3h biweekly :-) There is and will always be more ppl who would supply tea and stones than block skilldamage :-P
As for the idea.... well it would not bring back live to MP5 - at most deep Tribunal would become more idle-populated :-P
Well... Let's wait for fighting cause implementation - I hope I will be able to fight for the cause to turn Eon's skilldamage off. I need losses and always relied on Eon to provide them. It's annoying to get them myself :-)

Edited September 18, 2011 by xrieg

[Udgard]

If the issue is skill damage, instead of a bonus stat gained for being out in the open, why not give skill damage buffer (that gets depleted instead of the actual stats) instead? That way you won't get problem with people farming stats by idling, but you find something to lessen the wound from skill damage.

[Pothos]

To be frank, I think Eon's skill damage is set a good bit to high. in two fights I lost 0.269 almost across the board thanks to him, an amount that I could -maybe- make up during a long day of training my crits, seeing as I don't exactly have skill with rits, nor do I use high heat amounts.
It's a good bit absurd, and while i'm not exactly complaining.. I am stating that I think, if we cannot stop him now, we should at least put in a new rule, that anyone who has won the BHC once, regardless of if they win it again, lose their skill damage at the next BHC, and do not get it back at any point in time.

That stops abuse, meaning it stops someone from winning the BHC, then intentionaly hunting everyone else to weaken them with the skill damage, so that they can win again, and thus continue their 'fun'.

Added note: Personaly I like the idea of rewarding someone for being online with stats, However it is unfai to those who cannot spend 8 hours or more a day just idling away, and it would cause complaints. However, a buffer against skill damage seems to be a good alternative.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Pothos

[Pipstickz]

Let me say this first: I'm not a stat grinder, and fighting is not my main focus in MD, and set against, say, Amoran or Clock Master, I'd probably lose. At the same time, I do care about raising my creatures, so fighting IS important to me. I survive with my stats intact, I've barely lost any from Eon because for one, I sit in a sanctuary and for two, I attack the two or three people I can find to gain those stats I do lose back, so I have no complaint against stat damage.

Everybody suggesting to take skill damage away from Eon or out of the game: Eon earned it, it was a reward. If you want it taken out at least suggest something to be given in return and keep in mind that Eon doesn't care what YOU want, he wants what he views as a fair exchange, not to sacrifice his hard earned reward for what you think is the "greater good". Also worth keeping in mind is the Council (or Mur) has to agree to take the skill damage from him.

Now, personally I like Udgard's idea, or at least what I think his idea is: Something like Fenths but for your stats. I don't know how something like that could be implemented though, maybe a new creature with an ability that would somehow negate or diminish the effect of skill damage against you at some other cost, or maybe another new resource, just like Fenths. I think it's worth thinking about. This solution doesn't hurt Eon much, if at all, and in fact requires us to work for what we want rather than just wishing it away. That's the sort of solution I think we need here, and remember that there's no guarantee that any higher power even cares about this.

[Kyphis the Bard]

I completely agree with Pip, and am personally in the same position (actually, I find Eon's ability hilarious).

The only reason I fight is to raise creatures, so stats are only vaguely important to me. Since I don't sacrifice creatures, the only way I gain stats is through combat. I'm not fond of getting skill damage, and try to keep my balance good, but Eon's is now just a part of the game, that he earned, so if he hits me it is out of my control and something I can ignore, or even laugh about.

For those of you who want to work on making a skill damage buffer, don't wait for Mur or the council to act. The last stack of major updates have made it possible for YOU to act now.
Use the cauldron, work out a formulae and make something to protect you. There are all sorts of things you could do: Potions to negate skill damage for a period; shields that reduce it; nexus crystals to reduce it over an entire scene; your only limited by your imagination (and after that, ability to get the materials)
The potion would most likely be easiest, since it really just needs the right herbs, incantations and fluids.

EDIT: Oh yes, the original idea might work if it was a skill increase that only applied while you where Idle, wasn't cumulative, wasn't active for the first 15 or so minutes of going idle, and was capped at something like 10 for each stat.
That would prevent people just going Idle right before a retaliation attack happened for the stat boost, as well as provide a nice buffer the would prevent skill damage from being Idle unless someone WANTED to give you stat damage for some reason.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Kyphis the Bard

[phantasm]

Everybody suggesting to take skill damage away from Eon or out of the game: Eon earned it, it was a reward. If you want it taken out at least suggest something to be given in return and keep in mind that Eon doesn't care what YOU want, he wants what he views as a fair exchange, not to sacrifice his hard earned reward for what you think is the "greater good".

This is a good statement from pip. Thought the ONLY thing I have differences in is the fact of what do we agree is EARNED? EON put ALOT (and i mean alot) of money into the game in order to get the tokens and such to reach such a degree. So we reach the dilemma. Do people gain certain privileges spending mass amounts of money in order to further whatever their goal is (whether it is RP wise or combat wise) vs most of MD who honestly can't afford to pay into a game. The old philosophic debate of those who pay to keep the game financially going vs those who keep the actual game going. Honestly i don't see any solution between the two, because which of the two lesser evils. You don't like stat damage? Better get in the combat game or learn to get over it and enjoy the RP that goes on. As since i doubt the situation will ever change that is the realization we are left with.

[Pipstickz]

Eon has and still does put ALOT of time into personal stats, which is something anybody can do, an example of this being Lone Wolf who I'm sure could beat me, even though I have a decently large number of tokens on my creatures.

And since I mentioned it, I've never actually put any of my own money into my paypal account, which I happen to only use for MD, though I did once get a 20 dollar loan from a friend, the rest have been those "click these ads so we get money and you get money too maybe" sites that probably gave me viruses, and free credits, so I consider myself to be a free player. Not to mention you don't even have to go anywhere near credits to get tokened creatures, there were three tokened rusties on the market (and perhaps they still are, I haven't checked), and for the 4-6 gold that rusties usually go for, I think that's well worth it if you can get some coins, which you can now that there are WP for days to use on spells or bestiaries or whatever, and that's only one way to go about it. So yes, you CAN play free and contend with the people who spend money, you just have to work harder than them.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Pipstickz

[Mallos]

About a skill damage buffer, how about something like you can only lose the stats that you are still gaining for the day or that there is a set limit of skill damage you can receive in one day.

[nadrolski]

if [color=#ff0000]Heat[/color] can multiply a gain, why not make it divide any losses?

fair enough for your boss head master (as his SD is still present) and fair enough for the non-boss head master mp5s (as they can have a way to lessen the values)

[color=#d3d3d3]and honestly, we shouldn't complain against Eon's Skill Damage because it is him who is keeping this game alive, for us who cannot afford to pay to play[/color]

[lone wolf pup]

Why not make *spoiler creature* lesson Skill damage.. they steal some skilldamage from fights.. it should also weaken the effect.

[Fire Starter]

Well, so far for me only Kyphis and nad got constructive ideas.

Keep in mind that in MD there is no "justice" aside the one WE can provide and/or enforce.

Sorry for the non-constructive post, but time is pressuring me from every possible angle.

[Maebius]

I like Pip and Kyphis's comments. While I understand that for training folks, Skilldamage hurts, I'm reminded of a discussion months ago here about enforcing rules about the Sparring grounds (I think). What I got out of that discussion was to simply ask politely, rather than Flame-rant against the people "breaking the rule" there.

For myself, Eon's been kind enough to smack my defenses around for skill damage, yes, but then silently fed me some wins to balance it out while I idled. I say this not to gloat, but to offer an alternative, and acceptance of the skill. He earned it, and should be able to use it as he feels fit. But Staying online and public doesn't necessarily extrapolate to "OMG I'll have no stats left".

It would be interested to see a specific ritual or creature ability to counter this, if balanced properly, but such a simple solution would probably result in everyone defending with such things, and make the possible "training defenses" much more shallow in strategy. Those with more combat-brains could probably flesh out the idea better, but my gut reaction is that outright cancelling it with some ability would be a bad thing. (no offense to the suggestion itself, merely explaining my thoughts).

[Fyrd Argentus]

Maybe EON should start running a protection racket - pay her routinely to avoid being attacked. She has the power - just hasn't asked for anything yet.

That is how the mideval feudal system worked, isn't it?

[Edit - oops, fixed gender reference - sorry.]

Edited September 19, 2011 by Fyrd Argentus

[nadrolski]

another practical solution is to acquaint yourselves with your favorite fierce boss head master, like what few did for at least a little "protection" and "benefits" [i](applies to MP5 non-grinders)[/i]

[color=#d3d3d3]but grinders [size=1]like me[/size] should not expect to get the same "treatment" from the BHC organizer, obviously. of course, an unstoppable grinder will never [b]ever[/b] help another not-so-rich-to-support-the-game grinders, but feast on them. that fact will never change.[/color]

and instead of "brainstorming" publicly, why not talk about the issues in-game with trusted fellows? no one else can help us but ourselves.

[Mighty Pirate]

All,

please note, this purpose of this topic is NOT to discuss Eons skill damage ability.

I'd like to see a discussion about how we can get more people to public places ready for duels. Skill damage is part of the discussion but please don't reduce the discussion to skill damage.

[nadrolski]

do you really want more people in public ready for duels?

or you just want more weak mp5s to come out from dens so you can easily train your critters and stats?

[Mighty Pirate]

[quote name='nadrolski' timestamp='1316517884' post='92309']
do you really want more people in public ready for duels?

or you just want more weak mp5s to come out from dens so you can easily train your critters and stats?
[/quote]

the first.

[Blood Prince]

[quote name='nadrolski' timestamp='1316517884' post='92309']
do you really want more people in public ready for duels?

or you just want more weak mp5s to come out from dens so you can easily train your critters and stats?
[/quote]

First one should be the answer. I would like to know how one whould become strong if you don't duel or don't have people to do so. I think you consider yourself as a strong mp5 hence your comment.
The first thing is you people don't have a darn clue about the the fighting system but have ranked up many wins thanks to tokens. Some of you people have insane statistics due to stat mills like the GGG or the DOJO. When you people have accumulater enoguht of both you consider yourself strong and the people either whom are lesser privilaged and oppose stat mills are considered weak??? Why I commented on this topic earlier is I'm one of the weak ones going around and I need to get stronger and you need ppl to duel with. Since nobody would set up trees these (like when you trained in GGG) days and stay out in the open idle thanks to stat damage.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Blood Prince