Grido

[smartalekrj]

You want my opinion on the topic? Or the bs that is written in it? This is a joke. Grido has been in a tough... Not just tough... harshly difficult position since he took over for Jonn. One, from what I am seeing, you are stating that Grido isn't a human being, but a god... Couldn't be further from the truth. I've known Grido since he took on the pos position. It's a position of tough work with very little gain in general but he is happy to do it. He has never abused a power he has in any way shape or form that inflicts the game. He IS a person in the game, if you look at his name and see a godlike figure than get some glasses, cause he's not. Morally he is the best person for the job!!!

Now i've shouted this, for what 2 years or so now?, VOTE FOR GRIDO!!!!!!!! lol

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317427462' post='93004']
In regards to the introduction: I assumed anybody who's been even glancing at the mood panel lately knows my opinion before reading this, and would take it with a grain of salt, so to speak. As for the discussions, I merely intended to keep this thread free of arguments about whether or not Grido was right or wrong in the Phantom or dst case, because while they are relevant to the topic, they invite flame wars, derailments and general unhappiness that you can go to their respective threads to receive. So no, I was not trying to say "NO TALKING", because there clearly was talking, and plenty of it, most of which seems to be constructive to me. Besides, regardless of what I say, you're free to post whatever you'd like, as you know.
[/quote]


First you categorically posted that this is not personal, then you say your post was ‘actually’ supposed to be taken with a grain of salt. I’d have to say you are right. I, for one, did need at the very least a grain of salt in order to swallow your statements.

I never said you said “NO TALKING” as you have put it, but you only confirm exactly what I did say, and what Hedge also seems to see. I’d also be interested to know the answer to what sparked your interest in the matter?

Your curt response telling me you think I know that I’m free to post whatever I like is incorrect. Best not to assume what I do or do not know. What I do know is that to just post whatever I like, I would consider bad manners. You, as the figurehead of this discussion/thread have requested we do not discuss certain matters. Respectfully therefore I have opted to find out your reasons for that rather than barge in with an uninformed response.

Your lack of response to a straight forward part of Grido’s question “Is there a way for that opinion to be changed by me...” to me again means this is personal rather than about the community.

Z

[Grido]

The question was with double meaning Pip, how might I change it?

[Rendril]

I think the request has been pretty clear, Grido.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1317468063' post='93041']
The question was with double meaning Pip, how might I change it?
[/quote]
All it requires is an honest attempt.

As stated, right here
[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317427462' post='93004']
and if he does make an attempt at changing my opinion, I will gladly do so if I believe his attempt is an honest one.
[/quote]

Edited October 1, 2011 by Pipstickz

[Grido]

I am asking how I might change your opinion, you are answering if I make an honest attempt at it.

That does not actually answer my question.

So I will repeat, I would like to change your opinion of me, I am willing to make an honest attempt at it, but what can I actually do to change your opinion?

[Pipstickz]

I'm not going to just tell you what to do, Grido, because I can only tell you what I would do. I want you to do what you would do.

[Metal Bunny]

Wow this is derailing fast and looks to be counterproductive to the point and goal in mind when this topic was made by its creator.


"I'm not going to just tell you what to do, Grido, because I can only tell you what I would do. I want you to do what you would do. "

Really?


Didn't he already do that? Doesn't that premise include the possibility of a return to old behaviour, implying that yes, while his behaviour (as you seem to have deemed it necessary as to require 'redemption' of sorts) may change as a result of this topic, that you are kind of trapping him?

I want you to do what you would do..

That's like a (now ex-) girlfriend saying to me that 'if you don't know what you did wrong, then there is no point in me telling you'..

[spoiler]In case you didn't get that, it means that admittance of fault is not really admittance of fault if defendant is not aware or does not acknowledge fault, especially since, looking at this poll, the defendant has a majority support...
What you want is a bent knee, you're not getting it[/spoiler]

I sincerely hope you see the discrepancy in that..

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Metal Bunny' timestamp='1317553031' post='93092']
Didn't he already do that? Doesn't that premise include the possibility of a return to old behaviour, implying that yes, while his behaviour (as you seem to have deemed it necessary as to require 'redemption' of sorts) may change as a result of this topic, that you are kind of trapping him?
[/quote]
He did it, but not with the purpose of changing my opinion. If he continues to act as he has recently, then so be it, my opinion will remain unchanged, but I believe Grido has the ability to see what needs to be done. MD often leaves you directionless, with your own gut feeling as your only lead to follow. I had hoped this would be much the same, and I could see what Grido really thinks is necessary.

[quote name='Metal Bunny' timestamp='1317553031' post='93092']
That's like a (now ex-) girlfriend saying to me that 'if you don't know what you did wrong, then there is no point in me telling you'..

In case you didn't get that, it means that admittance of fault is not really admittance of fault if defendant is not aware or does not acknowledge fault, especially since, looking at this poll, the defendant has a majority support...
What you want is a bent knee, you're not getting it

I sincerely hope you see the discrepancy in that..
[/quote]
I am not asking Grido to admit to anything, and I do not want anything. Grido asked if he could change my opinion, I told him yes. He asked me how, I told him to make an honest effort. I am asking for him to do something without being told exactly what to do. If he cannot do that after surviving this long in MD, then I'm very surprised, but if he [b]decides[/b] not to, then that is his choice, and my opinion will remain as it is.

[phantasm]

honestly at this point this post in my eyes has become:

I don't like Grido's actions. So I am going to make a topic about what a bad job he is doing. I won't state what bad things, nor will i state how I see to correct them, only that he should [b]know[/b] what to do. In my opinion, your trying to say in this post that your opinion matters SOOOO much that this post was needed.

As far as I have seen it Grido has openly tried to connect on whatever base of disillusion you have for him and his position. If anything it only furthers his upstanding reputation for taking the high ground.

IF there is any point to this so far sensless topic, it would be nice that it would be made, instead of leaving everyone to their own assumptions. We all know what happens when people assume. In most cases it will only make you look bad for it pip.

[Deatznce0]

Offtopic-ally: MY GOD, METALBUNNY HAS MADE A RETURN!

[quote name='phantasm' timestamp='1317572842' post='93123']
honestly at this point this post in my eyes has become:

I don't like Grido's actions. So I am going to make a topic about what a bad job he is doing. I won't state what bad things, nor will i state how I see to correct them, only that he should [b]know[/b] what to do. In my opinion, your trying to say in this post that your opinion matters SOOOO much that this post was needed.

As far as I have seen it Grido has openly tried to connect on whatever base of disillusion you have for him and his position. If anything it only furthers his upstanding reputation for taking the high ground.

IF there is any point to this so far sensless topic, it would be nice that it would be made, instead of leaving everyone to their own assumptions. We all know what happens when people assume. In most cases it will only make you look bad for it pip.
[/quote]

I can agree with you in some aspects but I don't think Pip meant any of this, I think he just wants Grido to improve his methods without his direct input on how to improve; he wishes for him to do better in his own way rather than following one which is outlined by him. (Of course if Grido is uncertain on what he has done wrong then my way of thinking is in a loop, which I don't disagree with, after all, this is just my own personal opinion.)

Edited October 2, 2011 by Deatznce0

[Pipstickz]

This thread is, at this moment, shouting at Pip for having a divergent opinion time. This thread is not about my opinion, so I am putting a stop to this discussion.

Grido: Do you understand what [u]I believe[/u] you to have done wrong in the cases of dst and Phantom Orchid?

I request that only Grido answer this question, and only with a yes or a no.

[Grido]

Probably yes, but you haven't actually stated it anywhere. So if I were limited, I'd have to say "Yes".

[Pipstickz]

And do you believe you have done anything wrong in the cases of dst and Phantom Orchid?

[Grido]

I believe I acted in the best way I could given the knowledge at hand. Would I act differently given what I know now? Probably.

Also;[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317427462' post='93004']
As for the discussions, I merely intended to keep this thread free of arguments about whether or not Grido was right or wrong in the Phantom or dst case, because while they are relevant to the topic, they invite flame wars, derailments and general unhappiness that you can go to their respective threads to receive.
[/quote]?

[Pipstickz]

Will you actively utilize the knowledge you have gained since then to correct any mistakes you may have made?

[Grido]

The knowledge I gain from any situation helps me deal with future, similar, situations in a better way.

[Pipstickz]

I asked if you would fix errors you believe you've made, not if you will do it better in the future. The future is important, but not what I'd like to know. Just yes or no, please. If the problem is that you do not know how to fix it, there are many people, only one of whom is myself, who can help.

[smartalekrj]

you cant fix the past... only learn from it and build for a better future... thats like me wanting to fix my car 3 weeks before it broke cause it wouldve been cheaper... But i'm over that now lol

[Phantom Orchid]

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1317409828' post='92986']
I would like to see him learn from these mistakes, or at least admit to them.
[/quote]

Whether these two cases are mistakes or not can only be effectively judged by those who can see the entire picture. But the picture is cut like a jigsaw puzzle, and different people have different pieces - and clearly somewhere along the line communication broke down and judgments were made and expressed (or not), even though I seriously doubt there is any one person who doesn't have a puzzle piece (or seven) missing from their picture of these two situations. So in order for us to see the big picture, we must first take inventory of what we have, and then use our words to work together with others to fit the pieces together. And, as important, we should also be trying to figure out which pieces are missing and how those missing pieces might be influencing the whole.

It does seem to me that the general conversation has shifted, and it seems perhaps that the vindictiveness is being replaced by a willingness to have an open dialogue, to flesh out one another's desires and needs to make MD as functional as possible. And the realm is not a democracy, as we all know, but hierarchical in structure. The issue of accountability for players who hold power is a difficult conversation to have because of inherit power inequities and a seemingly fluid structure which does apparently mold and adapt to new situations and/or players and the roles they play. A good example of this dynamic could be seen in how the rules are made and shaped by Mur, as the game continuously evolves.

There's no exact blueprint (or if there is I presume only Mur knows it ) here, but a community of players who each have a powerful tool at their disposal, and that is the use of their words. It is -really- difficult in real life, at least in my culture, for most to set aside their judgments and prejudices to effectively listen, really listen, and try to understand what the other person is saying. Because first you must listen not just to hear words, but try to understanding where there are coming from and what led them to make the choices that they did.

We all know that Grido has a rich history of making himself available to others in the realm and working to fulfill his role in it. As was mentioned earlier, much of this work has been transparent, behind the scenes, and has probably gone mostly unrewarded by others.

With that said, I would like to thank him for his continual help he has offered to me, currently, despite the adverse situation that wedged itself between us (and for my part in creating that, I accept responsibility for). My ego is not thin enough to judge him for how he acted 'against me,' and I am confident that he will continue his unwavering stance of doing what he thinks is best for MD, despite how it may shift what others may think of him.

The only thing I can ask of him, or anyone really, is to act with compassion both in-game and out.

[Grido]

I cannot answer in the form of Yes or No. I also do not like to limit my answers, it leads to a very closed perspective.

If you seek for me to disclose what the punishment for dst was, I will not - I have reasons for this, and they won't change. Judge me as you wish for this.

If you refer to something relating to Phantom Orchid, I believe I have apologised to her for how I dealt with this, and at this point there is little else I can do.

If you refer to another incident then I have no idea what you're talking about, so wouldn't be able to answer.


All in all, I believe there are no mistakes I have made, that I haven't already sought to make reparations for. As I have said previously, should similar such events transpire again, I would likely act differently.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1317606115' post='93157']
All in all, I believe there are no mistakes I have made, that I haven't already sought to make reparations for.
[/quote]
That's all I wanted to know.

[Muratus del Mur]

in my point of view, the job/role of the LHO inquisitor is meant to be measured through the effectiveness of the LHO as a group. That effectiveness can be achieved through various ways, by behaving nice, by being a cruel boss, by motivating the lho's, by scaring them, etc. It is only that effectiveness that can be linked to a potential question "is grido fit for his role?". The current poll, as a general discussion about "grido", makes more sense than a vote against his role. Not to mention that all this sounds to me as a personal grudge, probably both ways (i have no clue really, just saying how it looks like)

[Muratus del Mur]

People, in general, don't know to admit it when they do mistakes. In this case, both did, grido out of ignorance and the phantom counting on the presumed ignorance of any authority. The way people, in general, fight to defend their mistakes is similar. Those with authority show more authority or try to deviate the reasons because "they know better". Those without authority, try to move the masses in their favor, a bit of mercy here and there a bit of heroism and purpose achieved. The person of authority "wins" when "nothing changes", the person without the authority wins when others admit publicly that he/she is right, regardless of what comes next.

I gave it a good thought , and the best way to analyze the matter is to put myself in Grido's place. I am sad to say that i would have acted the same. When _ANYONE_ does something bad, i oftenly punish without talking with that person first. It saves time, but most important it saves potential lies and potential hopes for a punishment that i know it will happen anyway. This apparent ignorance helps me be more strict, and in my eyes that means also fair. I am strongly biased here, I know my ways are not right and they are accepted just because its "my game". I don't know if Grido should have acted similar or not, but i do know he had the option to do so, i cant blame him for using that option, you however can. I do believe that he didn't anticipated the public reaction, and that should be a lesson for him. I also believe that Phantom did something unacceptable too, thats not in question.

The hardest punishement i am capable of is public humiliation. That, for me, is part of a punishment, not a side effect i can ignore.