Grido

[Pipstickz]

In light of his recent behavior and handling of certain events (discussion of which hopefully shall remain in their respective threads), several people have spoken against, and in defense of, Grido. The purpose of this poll is to see where the community, as a whole, stands on this issue.

As Grido's position does not only affect LHOs, but the whole of the community, I feel it is pertinent to make the distinction in the poll question. Grido is more than [b]just[/b] LHO "Inquisitor", he is essentially a GM, an example being Kyphis' PL concern, where he went to Grido about having a PL entry deleted (Grido could not do what Kyphis asked, but I am trying to illustrate how the community sees him, not what abilities he has).

As a personal note, no matter what the outcome of the poll is, my opinion will not change, but if the outcome agrees with my opinion, then I will proceed to create another thread where a discussion of what action should be taken can commence.

In this poll, everybody who votes is viewed as equal, and this is how it should be, so if you have an opinion, vote for it.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Chewett

[Hedge Munos]

This is...curious. Have you even tried to talk to Grido in person, discuss your...accusations...with him? If so, I relinquish my harshness, if not, I ask that you do, if you both wish to.

And, is this not bashing a player, indirectly?

Hedge

Edited September 30, 2011 by Hedge Munos

[ChildOfTheSoul]

I also believe that this is something that you two need to handle. I understand your request for the public to give their opinion, but I null my vote nonetheless...

Edited September 30, 2011 by ChildOfTheSoul

[Pipstickz]

This is not a personal issue between me and Grido. I simply want the community's opinion on how he does his job.

[Emrys The Green]

Personal? He is horrible all around.... He has never done anything to me, but I see and hear about the things he has done and quite frankly when I seen in the Triggers and login page about Phantom Orchid. I said.. Wow, I wonder what she did to him personally to piss him off this much. I fail to see how he can make that event public like that, not just public no... Made sure that everyone in MD knew. Honestly, the only LHO in the whole mix that I figure deserves the role is Mya... DST is a *****Ing joke and a bad joke at that and she gets to go around and be an anti LHO in an LHO position..

Meh, this game is a damned joke now. I don't even care if I get banned or thrown in jail anymore. May just quit indeffinately.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Emrys The Green

[Rendril]

The poll question can skew the results since it is a premise with 2 clauses rather than two premises. I suggest decomposing the question.

[Passant the Weak]

I don't really understand the utility of the questions that are asked. Whatever the result of your poll is, what will you do with it?

If you believe he is doing such a bad job, shouldn't the question be more straight like "Grido shall be demoted from his position for abuse.... bla bla bla": Yes/No ?

[Pipstickz]

Rendril: I think I get where you're coming from but it's a bit too late now to change, yeah?

Passant: As I said in the initial post, if the outcome agrees with my opinion, then I will begin a discussion of punishment, and if not, I will simply give it time.

[Passant the Weak]

Allright, I did not understand well.

I am personnally not able to answer the questions you ask:
- Grido as leader of LHOs: this is not visible to me. LHO work fine as far as I can see. Whether it's due to Grido or not, I can't judge, better ask LHOs themselves.
- Official figure near the top of the chain of command. That one I don't WANT to answer, as I have always refused to judge those who are acting "on behalf of" (Mur, the council,....). My position on that is more: they are in that position by the will of Mur. If they don't act as he wants, Mur will decide any action. And then I take them as they are. If one day I am not happy with the overall situation, then I will notify Mur or the council and decide to leave eventually.

I press "Null vote"

[Burns]

There'll probably be nobody who reads this before casting a vote, but still:

Grido has been Inquisitor for about 2 and a half years, and has dealt with hundreds of issues in that time. Out of those hundreds of issues, only very few get any publicity at all, and out of those few, only a slim percentage was handled in a way that was wrong to my perception.
If we judge everybody of such an age on the wrongs we can dig up, we're all cheaters, liars and bastards. Grido surely isn't the exception to that rule.

There are enough cases that were handled with all the care they needed to be handled with to outweigh the few sins.

Otherwise, John 8:7. (To our friends who aren't christians: That's a reference to the new testament)

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

Whilst saying this isn’t a personal issue, the way the introduction to this is written does come across as very personal and quite vindictive. Not only that, but you caveat wanting discussions relating to this coming about to stay in their respective threads, thereby removing discussion of the issues here that caused you to create the poll in the first place.

As for hearing Chinese Whispers of what people do: Don’t let someone else’s personal views ruin your own objectivity and sense of perspective.

Z

[Deatznce0]

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1317371087' post='92924']
Otherwise, John 8:7. (To our friends who aren't christians: That's a reference to the new testament)
[/quote]

Since we're making references to the bible let us also throw in:

"If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:38-42
Now what does that mean? A demotion of all LHOs!

On a more serious note however, I'm inclined to give a null vote, as summarised by Grido:
[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1317371087' post='92924']
... has dealt with hundreds of issues in that time. Out of those hundreds of issues, only very few get any publicity at all, and out of those few, only a slim percentage was handled in a way that was wrong to my perception.
[/quote]
There is nothing I can really add to this. When a person does a single good in the community, it is usually ignored and unnoticed but when they do a single wrong, everyone turns their head to point the finger. I apologise Pippy, unfortunately, this time I cannot assist you with your position.

[Fyrd Argentus]

I too am not in a position to judge the internal workings of the LHO system but I recognize this cannot be a democracy. Corporation maybe, with people answerable up the chain.

Up until now I've seen no failure on Grido's part to deal with this very difficult job.

The handling of the Phantom Orchid episode was a real prat-fall, as you should never, ever treat volunteer helpers that way. Everybody is watching and that public humiliation thing has obviously demoralized everybody. The ripples from this will echo as long as MD lasts, and this event did not add to the realm's longevity.

People make mistakes. I'm only disturbed that Grido does not appear to be learning from this one - or even admitting it was one on his part.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Fyrd Argentus

[ChildOfTheSoul]

@Falsh: Do you mean summarized by Burns, or did Grido actually say that? O.O

[Blood Prince]

I agree with Rendril. I think the question should have bee decomposed into more specific options rather than giving black and white answers. I think I was late by the time I informed Pip.

One of my questions would have been "Is conflict of interest forcing Grido not to think clearly", another would be "Should favors etc.. should be done in game because of RL friendship."

I'm too lazy to put a pole up for this so I decided to post my Q's

[Grido]

Pip, ""As a personal note, no matter what the outcome of the poll is, my opinion will not change""
just to be clear for myself, regardless the outcome of the poll, you still think I'm in the "No" category of the poll? Is there a way for that opinion to be changed by me, or will it remain that way regardless?

Hedge/CotS, There has been no conversation between us regarding this - As far as I recall, anyway. I would be open to finding out how he thinks I'm doing a bad job and if possible try to alter that opinion, though from his responses I would think he does not wish for this.

SilverBlades, ""Personal? He is horrible all around.... He has never done anything to me...""
...

CotS, that'd be Burns saying it in an earlier post

BP, if you could clarify the conflict of interest you mention? Do you mean friendship, or something else? And in reference to dst, or another situation?

[Chewett]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317368764' post='92920']
Rendril: I think I get where you're coming from but it's a bit too late now to change, yeah?
[/quote]

It can be done, We have the power.

Suggested change to:

Yes to both
No to X Yes to Y
No to Y Yes to X
No to Both

And im using X and Y because i dont have time to check what each one was.

[Seigheart]

I haven't had time to read through the entire thread but I will say my piece here.


Grido has done a great job through out the years he has been LHO Inquisitor.

There is absolutely no doubt about that.

The issue here, I believe, is if he has made the right decisions concerning the LHO Tool abuse, or the Phantom Orchid case.

I do not think he has, but that is not the question of the Poll.

I don't want to see Grido get punished because of these mistakes. He's human after all.

BUT.

I would like to see him learn from these mistakes, or at least admit to them.

[Rendril]

At what point was this thread about Grido getting demoted or punished in general?

[Grido]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317338792' post='92893']
...but if the outcome agrees with my opinion, then I will proceed to create another thread where a discussion of what action should be taken can commence.[/quote]
[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317368764' post='92920']
Passant: As I said in the initial post, if the outcome agrees with my opinion, then I will begin a discussion of punishment, and if not, I will simply give it time.[/quote]

[Pipstickz]

First off, Rendril is correct, this thread was not intended for discussion of punishment. Now the rest.

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' timestamp='1317378315' post='92937']
Whilst saying this isn’t a personal issue, the way the introduction to this is written does come across as very personal and quite vindictive. Not only that, but you caveat wanting discussions relating to this coming about to stay in their respective threads, thereby removing discussion of the issues here that caused you to create the poll in the first place.
[/quote]
In regards to the introduction: I assumed anybody who's been even glancing at the mood panel lately knows my opinion before reading this, and would take it with a grain of salt, so to speak. As for the discussions, I merely intended to keep this thread free of arguments about whether or not Grido was right or wrong in the Phantom or dst case, because while they are relevant to the topic, they invite flame wars, derailments and general unhappiness that you can go to their respective threads to receive. So no, I was not trying to say "NO TALKING", because there clearly was talking, and plenty of it, most of which seems to be constructive to me. Besides, regardless of what I say, you're free to post whatever you'd like, as you know.

[quote name='Deatznce0' timestamp='1317383856' post='92955']
There is nothing I can really add to this. When a person does a single good in the community, it is usually ignored and unnoticed but when they do a single wrong, everyone turns their head to point the finger. I apologise Pippy, unfortunately, this time I cannot assist you with your position.
[/quote]
I am not offended, no worries. I appreciate your input, no matter what you voted.

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1317399858' post='92977']
Pip, ""As a personal note, no matter what the outcome of the poll is, my opinion will not change""
just to be clear for myself, regardless the outcome of the poll, you still think I'm in the "No" category of the poll? Is there a way for that opinion to be changed by me, or will it remain that way regardless?
[/quote]
I said my opinion will not be changed by the poll, but [b]you[/b] certainly can change it.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you to everybody who voted (or thought about voting, but perhaps didn't get in before now), even if your vote was Null. To me, 72 people is a huge number in MD, in a 24 hour time period, and I appreciate every individual, as well as the majority opinion. I will not seek action against Grido, nor will I endorse such action, and if he does make an attempt at changing my opinion, I will gladly do so if I believe his attempt is an honest one.

I would like to apologize to SilverBlades and any such individuals that may share his extreme view on this issue or the game in general: I can tell you that a single change would most likely not affect your opinion, so: sorry if I got your hopes up.

Anybody who may still have comments to share may do so, as I will only ask to have the thread closed once activity on it dies down (if I remember to <<).

[Hedge Munos]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1317427462' post='93004']
First off, Rendril is correct, this thread was not intended for discussion of punishment. Now the rest.


In regards to the introduction: I assumed anybody who's been even glancing at the mood panel lately knows my opinion before reading this, and would take it with a grain of salt, so to speak. As for the discussions, I merely intended to keep this thread free of arguments about whether or not Grido was right or wrong in the Phantom or dst case, because while they are relevant to the topic, they invite flame wars, derailments and general unhappiness that you can go to their respective threads to receive. So no, I was not trying to say "NO TALKING", because there clearly was talking, and plenty of it, most of which seems to be constructive to me. Besides, regardless of what I say, you're free to post whatever you'd like, as you know.[/QUOTE]

Why did you even create the thread, then? Discussion was certain to occur. I understand you wanted the public opinion, but why not ask for it to be poll only, or something of that sort? Anyways, just being critical. Not trying to spark arguments.

Hedge

[Pipstickz]

If I ask for opinions and then leave only the option of "Yes", "No" or "Null", the only opinions I'm going to hear are "I agree with you", "I don't agree with you" and "I neither agree nor disagree with you".

[Hedge Munos]

Fair enough. I've but one more question. What sparked your interest in the matter?

Hedge

[Kyphis the Bard]

If the majority of the community felt Grido was doing something wrong, then something would probably change (either from the top down, or better yet Grido would reflect on the results and try to change the public opinion of him).

Think of the French revolution. Almost every peasant had the same opinion, however because they where not united nothing happened and the abuse continued.

However, since the majority of the public (who responded) seem to feel Grido is doing a good job, then while Pips views may be valid for his position, it suggests that Grido is still doing a good job. A few issues that the community deems as ill dealt with do not, and should not, condemn someone. Whether this means that nothing will happen is not clear. The sheer fact that this topic was made should make Grido think about the way people perceive his role and actions (note: perceive them, not what they actually are). The way that the poll turned out in Grido's favor will hopefully also make Grido's detractors think about why it turned out as such, and hopefully try to understand both their, and Grido's, positions better (there is nothing wrong with either perspective, however it is important to remember it is your own perspective first and foremost, and no-one at all has the whole story).