Jail Release

[Seigheart]

Okay, so, I've noticed a pattern with the jailings of individuals.

They get sent in really fast, but it takes forever for anyone with the unban spell to release them.

Why is this?

Neno Veliki has been in jail longer then his sentence, why is it that those with the unban spell (Grido, Council, Rendril, and of course Mur) have not unbanned him even though his punishment should have been over by almost a week now?

Others have had this happen to them too.

I brought the issue up with Grido. And he refuses to let him out unless he contacts him directly IG.

What is the reasoning behind this? Isn't this just enabling those with the unban spell to change the punishment to what they think it should have been in the first place?

[Chewett]

I trust he has mailed the council? Mur has always said Grido doesnt have to do anything, wheras the council once emailed "should" remove him.

[BFH]

Since i had been asked mutiple times, I only have a way in to jail spell (Ban), not unban. Only Grido, Council, and Mur have the abbility to unban.

[Passant the Weak]

Slightly related to the original post: is there a way to know who is sent to jail, reason and sentence? I failed to see any annoucement on Neno.

[Prince Marvolo]

[color="#CCCCCC"]Ann. 2154 - [2011-12-28 12:37:41 - Stage 11][/color]
Using alts to cast spells in order to help the main character falls under the alt abuse category. For this, [u]Neno Veliki will be jailed for 1 week[/u]. His alt will remain in Prison for an undetermined period of time.

[Passant the Weak]

Thanks. i'll buy glasses.

[Grido]

All Jail sentences are minimum.
As Chewett has said, I do not have to use the unban spell.

That being said, if someone messages me in game on the day they're due to be released (or any point after, and I count it to the hour, btw) then I will release them.


In regards to Neno, he has been told I believe 3 or 4 times now what to do to be released by me, at least one of those times there was also information pointing out that there were other people that could release him; council or Mur.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Grido

[Tal]

Is ingame the only way?
or will a forum pm also do grido?

[Grido]

Ingame only, a mini challenge to get out. Everyone has the ability to message me wherever they are, I'd prefer people not disclose how to do it in this forum thread though.

[Dragual]

I think it's absurd that you can't just let him out. He served his time. A penalty was set, and should be followed. It is a shame when the leadership goes back on it's word.

[Grido]

I can, I won't, unless he does the very simple task of sending me a message in game.

Please read the previous posts Dragual, I do not have to do this, I choose to, I feel it is acceptable for the jailed individual to put a little effort in, for the little effort I put in to release.

As has also been previously stated, all sentences are minimum, nobody went back on any word.

[Burns]

[quote]Ann. 1967 - [2011-08-09 06:30:00 - Stage 10]
Clearing some things about Jail Time and releases
The only right way to get out of jail is by being released by those that have this ability. When someone is sent to jail, the sentence time refers to a MINIMUM TIME that person will stay there. After that period, that person can be released from jail only by those with the right ability to do that, WHEN and IF they wish so. the unban ability is a personal ability and as such is used at the owners discretion. However there are other ways that can be used at your own risk, to get out of jail when time is up, or if you dare sooner, otherwise what would be the point of having fugitives features and such things . Fugitives will obviously find it a lot harder to ever clear their name, integrate back, receive public roles, etc, so don't joke about choosing that path, even if a "criminal path" is now technically supported by the interface.[/quote]

Just in case, it's been a while, maybe a few people who're arguing here forgot that announcement already.

[Jubaris]

If he does not have to, does not mean he should not

Neno Veliki is a respected member of the community, a very nice guy, dedicated, has a line of achievements for the cause of Magic Duel.
He got jailed controversially for an act that is debatebly used by the very accusser.

I think he deserves to be released as soon as his sentence runs out (which already did).

[Chewett]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1326268278' post='100423']
Neno Veliki is a respected member of the community, a very nice guy, dedicated, has a line of achievements for the cause of Magic Duel.
He got jailed controversially for an act that is debatebly used by the very accusser.
[/quote]

He Abused alts, I dont respect that at all.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1326264859' post='100420']
I can, I won't, unless he does the very simple task of sending me a message in game.

Please read the previous posts Dragual, I do not have to do this, I choose to, I feel it is acceptable for the jailed individual to put a little effort in, for the little effort I put in to release.
[/quote]

You are one of the few people with the spell, and the only one that is an active, regular player; if you just sat on it and did nothing with it, there would be greater outcry in the community, so it is not exactly your choice.

Looking at individual cases: Soothing Sands has but plenty of effort in and has not only served his time but compensated those that he stole from by giving them something extra. I'd say he's done more than enough to constitute a release, not to mention that he has PM'd you, according to him, because he has gotten out of jail as a fugitive. Like with the forum, if you are going to do such things, give fair warning (ie. Make a rule, somewhere, that states what happens if you are a fugitive), because for all I know you're detaining him because you don't like him.
Neno hasn't done the same in regards to compensation, but I disagree with your 'policy' for jail anyways. Durr.

[Shadowseeker]

Pip, you disagree with almost anything.

[color="#CCCCCC"]Ann. 1519 - [2010-06-08 11:56:01 - Stage 10][/color]
If someone gets out of jail sooner than he should (escapes) , his penalty will be increased to a lot more and if he does it again he received a permanent IP ban. Careful how a small penalty can turn into a much bigger one, jail is jail, not a tourist attraction.

As for Neno, if he demands to be freed in a rude manner, then he can wait for council/mur to unban him, or not? I mean...why should someone with no obligation unban someone who is rude to him.

[Pipstickz]

No, SS, you just don't see me agreeing with things because when I agree with something I don't go out of my way to make it clear. Also, disagreeing with one thing is usually agreeing with another, so let's have a semantics battle, because I know you like them so much.

The announcement is from before the fugitive system: Phantom Orchid spent plenty of her sentence outside the jail, was there any repercussions for that? Based on that evidence I am assuming that announcement has been made defunct due to new features.

Plenty of people are rude, do they get sent to jail for that? No. So why should they be left in jail? Because Grido doesn't like the way they talk? Yeah, it'd be totally awesome if everybody was nice, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to play the game with the rest of us. Neno isn't being rude to Grido specifically, either, from what I've seen. Has he even mentioned Grido? The reason he's being rude is because he believes he is being treated unjustly, which is rooted in either his initial sentence or the fact that he has not been freed yet. Anyone can get angry and do things they would not otherwise do if they are subject to unfair treatment, and that's what happens every time somebody is left in jail longer for than their sentence. The whole thing's rather pointless. Nobody benefits from people staying in jail longer than they should, but they do stay there because Mur said Grido doesn't [b]have[/b] to release people.

If you don't care enough to set a proper release date, and then don't have the time to stick to it, then you shouldn't be banning people in the first place. Yeah, people do things that we think are wrong, they make mistakes, maybe they're just ignorant. That's part of being a community, you take the bad with the good, but when the people in charge use their power to keep people away because they're ignorant, what does that say to the rest of us? Best example is redneck being banned. He was basically the victim of an MD lynch mob: Everybody hated him, and that was enough for Grido to ban him. At the time, I thought it was pretty funny, because redneck was the scum of the earth and we'd all be better for it, I thought that was ok because Grido did it, and he had the power, but now? If that happened now, I'd be one of the first to protest it, though I'm sure that Grido has changed since then too, and that it would not happen again.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Pipstickz

[Dragual]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1326264859' post='100420']
I can, I won't, unless he does the very simple task of sending me a message in game.

Please read the previous posts Dragual, I do not have to do this, I choose to, I feel it is acceptable for the jailed individual to put a little effort in, for the little effort I put in to release.

As has also been previously stated, all sentences are minimum, nobody went back on any word.
[/quote]
I HAVE read the above statements.... In fact, I read the whole thing. And I STILL thing it is absurd to keep him there.
Yes, a little effort is never a bad thing, but that does not excuse what you are doing. I say again, he served his time! Why keep him? Because he hasn't messaged you? And you even acknowledged the fact that he may not even know how to. Justify it how ever you choose, that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Dragual

[Neno Veliki]

this whats happening to me is ridiculous, unjust and very degrading and i wouldnt want this to happen to anybody else. in the same time im sad to see that elder representatives of the game are acting in this manner. altough u are backed up with the Ann. 1967 - [2011-08-09 06:30:00 - Stage 10], its obvious that it is quite loose regulation and therefore is subject for manipulation, abuse and what not. exactly what is happening now. i also hope that few of u see that u arent supported by the majority of MD community, and that community doesnt support this kind of attitude. if that means anything to u..
so to come to an end of this kind of situations what i was thinking about is that we should have some tweaking of that regulation of some sort. for example that convict cant be release before he served atleast 2/3 of the initial sentence but also cant be held inside more that the double the initial sentence or something. that way we encourage those who are in jail to behave and also give the right to those out to revenge or whatever to inmates for whatever reason they have, but still we prevent whole situation from escalating to extremes.

[Shadowseeker]

Just to compare...

You shouting : RELEASE ME NOW! (maybe not literally, but in that kind of manner) is supposed to get you a release?

It is common courtesy to adhere to a certain standard of politeness when voicing requests- what you did in the moodpanel the whole time was issueing commands. Is it really that hard to tell Grido "Release me please?"- if you are angry about the jail time as such, you also direct it to the wrong jailer.

I see a lot of people hoping to see you out again, but if your pride forbids you from simply asking, not begging as you put it, then you'll have to mail council simply.

[xrieg]

Two example, pick the one you consider relevant (the result's the same):
1. game world: what other game officials make sure suspended player stay suspended far more than the announced period of time, not playing - giving them ample opportunity to reconsider any will/ motivation to play
2. irl world: what kind of country requires jailed individual to perform some gimmicks/ tasks after their time is over?
I agree with SS - Neno should not have to ask/ shot/ mood panel for release... announcement or not. His time was over ling time ago and his sentence did not read 'one week or the time Neno learns to be polite enough for game officials, whichever comes later'.. or did it
BTW is being nice and polite to game officials _really_ the signature of a creative, free-thinking individual MD claims to be targetting?

[Shemhazaj]

[color=#808080][i]I can understand Grido gives it an additional requirement as he's not the person directly responsible.[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]The Council should at least keep an eye on it tho, and if they do one thing does bother me. [/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Neno was sentenced to 1 week keeping him in over 2 weeks makes the "margin error" for the sentence and actual punishment amazingly high...[/i][/color]

[Grido]

The reason Sands wasn't released right away was because as Shadowseeker referenced; Ann. 1519 - [2010-06-08 11:56:01 - Stage 10]. And then quite frankly I forgot - I have received no messages from him since I asked him ""Is there a particular reason you decided to escape jail prior to being released?"" and he replied ""Not particularly, no. Just a random decision..."" That was 2 days ago. And I have no particular issue with him at all, what he did, yes, but not him.

As to your thinking the extra sentence time for escaping is defunct...what now? If someone escapes from an actual jail, and get caught, they get additional time in jail, I have no reason to think it would be otherwise here, it's just more noticeable to be out of jail when you're not meant to be.

Pip indeed he did mention me at one point when me and him were having a "conversation" in the mood panel, where I was trying to point out it was rude of him to say "Release me [i]immediately[/i]"
I would like to point out that I didn't set the release date, I had nothing to do with the jailing of Neno.

As Shadowseeker says, a little politeness goes a long way.

[Soothing Sands]

Ok soo... Should i put myself back in jail for like 4 days, or am i going to be released anyways?

And honestly, as a fugitive, it really seems like the general public doesn't care that much about me. A few individuals, yes, but most people I ask to not grab me, don't. I could sit in a semi-public location all day and be fine. But really- with the ease of escaping as it is now, who wouldn't?