land loyalty for NH mechanics...

[Liberty4life]

i am wondering how does land loyalty for no homeland ppl work... :s

i have 98 no homeland loyalty and 1 mb loyalty, and problem that i am encountering is that in nml i am gettin no ap discount at some locations, at some locations i am getting ap dicount of 1 ap, and .... most interesting part is that for some locations in mb (mb gates included) i get discount of 98 ap, and... also for goin to necro and lore gate entrances which are marked as theirs also i get 98 ap discount, same is not true for gg gates, now what the heck... :s bug? or just very strange/complicated mech?

[Chewett]

AP is built upon Base AP + Viscosity - Loyalty points for the land

Where Viscosity goes from -80 to +40

so many locations in NML you will find have 1 - 80 AP requirement aka -79 AP

[Kaya]

Some scenes in NML are flagged as being from NML, but some scenes are flagged to belong to no land at all (so not even NML.
No homeland loyalt only works in scenes that belong to no land. This should explain why it does effect your AP in some scenes in NML and not in some others. No homeland loyalty shouldn't effect any other scenes.

[Kyphis the Bard]

Doesn't solve the gates issue those

[Liberty4life]

chew i am aware of that... but as you can see there are anomalies

hmm sounds explanatory what samon said, but still it doesnt explain gate isssue as kyphis said yes...

also i am not aware of those locations that belong to no land... at least not in nml, and even if all this is true there is another thing which conflicts your statement, example:

so atm i am at Old Man's Road, it says [b]Territory: [/b]No Man's Land, but both arrows for traveling say (1-80) meaning it wont count land loyalty in it, even if you travel to nearby locations it will be tagged as nml

now another interesting thing i found out... i went to weapon smith in nml, its tagged as nml territory, but.... if you stand at gates of ages which is gg territory, in order to get to smith it says (1-80), and in order to leave smith it says (1+40), funny part with this is that smith has viscosity of +40 and gates have it at -80, in otherwords in this example viscosity has to do with ap cost for LEAVING the scene not entering

now i redid tests, at now... no arrows at necro nor lore gate has loyalty discount now... :s, and following nml locations give ap discount for me by correct value for all arrows same:[list]
[*]pc exterior
[*]road of battles
[*]goe
[*]tranquil plains
[*]fenths press
[*]meeting of the roads
[*]winds game
[/list]
also mb gate seems to work normally it says it uses mine mb land loyalty points for every arrow

so nml land loyalty for ap discount works only for 7 locations!!!!! i even checked the nml locations at exit of underground, so scenes that come after exiting tunnel are marked as nml, but no discount in there, atm nml has like only 30% of its locations covered by this, which is a downside... now most of nml has viscosity of -80 so ppl dont really care, but i noticed this mainly after exiting underground tunnel, now i wonder how is it with other lands, are there more bugged locations where land loyalty bonus doesnt count?

and as for gates not working.... i think it works fine, that i got confused due to not knowing how viscosity and land loyalty applies

i thought it works as ap cost modifier to get IN specific location, and not as ap modifier to get OUT of specific location, which is kinda awkward i didnt seen it described like that...

edit: dont mind conflicting parts of this post, i wrote it all on fly as i was paralely writing and testing

Edited January 11, 2012 by Liberty4life

[Passant the Weak]

Liberty, I posted a bug report some time ago about teh same subject but it was considered "normal" (I'm talking of places in NML classified either as No Man's land and offering no bonus, or as No homeland and offering your loyalty bonus). The thread is there:
[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10766-no-mans-land-vs-no-home-land-is-there-a-difference/"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10766-no-mans-land-vs-no-home-land-is-there-a-difference/[/url]

Please check it out, in order to know if what you describe is different from that. If the Gate issue is solved, then you are probably talking of the same thing.

[Liberty4life]

nup, its very similar but not it, in your thread you list locations as goe and fenths press being blank and not tagged and that they give no bonus, in mine case i listed locations in mine previous post which give bonus among which is goe and fenths press, now problem is ALL locations are tagged as part of nml, i see mur made some effort to tag all scenes to aproppriate land, but... thing is even if all locations are tagged only those 7 that i listed give bonus, other than this bonus there is no difference from those 7 to the rest that dont give bonus

edit for example:
[b]Territory: [/b]No Man's Land
[b]Coord:[/b] 1_1x-4_1
[b]Tags: [/b] none
see it has all it needs to have but it still doesnt give bonus, all of nml locations are tagged to belong to its land, but only 7 of them give bonus to ap, there is no scene anymore that has "[b]Territory:[/b]" section blank

Edited January 11, 2012 by Liberty4life

[Kaya]

I think mur added the land, but somehow forgot to change the effect of loyalty. So I think no homeland loyalty should have no effect at all. But I could verry well be wrong with that.

[Passant the Weak]

I will cehck when back in NML, but looks like Samon is right. We are probably in the middle of an update. I'll try to check if anythuing changed in regards to loyalty bonus compared to what it was before that NML update.

[Kaya]

The GoE still belongs to no land and gives the loyalty bonus:
[b]Territory: [/b]
[b]Coord:[/b] 1_0x0_1
[b]Tags: [/b] none

Same for the other locations.

Also Old man's road (1_1x-4_1) doesn't give the no man's land loyalty bonus for me.

[Passant the Weak]

[quote name='Liberty4life' timestamp='1326278304' post='100436']

i redid tests, at now... no arrows at necro nor lore gate has loyalty discount now... :s, and following nml locations give ap discount for me by correct value for all arrows same:[list]
[*]pc exterior
[*]road of battles
[*]goe
[*]tranquil plains
[*]fenths press
[*]meeting of the roads
[*]winds game
[/list]

[/quote]

I checked those places are tagged with no land. So it's definitely the same situation as what was described in the thread I linked. Nothing has changed.

EDIT: beaten by Samon for a few minutes

Edited January 11, 2012 by Passant the Weak

[Liberty4life]

true old man doesnt give bonus

but but but... wth... i am stupid/crazy/hallucinating O.o i am 100% sure i saw all those 7 locations having been tagged with NML >_>

hmm w/e its clearly i better be silent about this else who knows what false things i may say again

but most importantly we all agreed that scene territory tag and loyalty bonus in nml doesnt work properly