Protector Spells

[Phantom Orchid]

Unless the daily reset timer for protector spells has changed, it appears that protectors have had their spells limited from 20 casts of each spell per day to 20 casts of each spell per week. That is less than 2 heal spells available per day at that ratio.

Really?

The announcement made it sound like just the spell tree would be reset along with the other spells, not casts.

[BFH]

I would doubt 2 heals per day... I believe it could be an error.

On the other hand, Nowadays protector heals are so weak that are stupid.

They should work based on target ve. Aka: heal a specific percent of the target ve.

[Shemhazaj]

[color=#808080][i]2 heals per day is indeed not much...[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]20 prot freeze per day is way too many...[/i][/color]

[color=#808080][i]perhaps the no of healing alone could be increased slightly?[/i][/color]

[color=#808080][i]As BFH said, the heal is very weak, it is meant to be used on newbies mostly, but maybe a multiplier of the heat used could be added?[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Right now it heals max 4k ve, when 4k heat used. Perhaps it could be made 3 or 5 times the heat used?[/i][/color]

[Ackshan Bemunah]

"How can spells have limited cast, this is absurd..."

[Chewett]

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1345521527' post='120636']
Unless the daily reset timer for protector spells has changed, it appears that protectors have had their spells limited from 20 casts of each spell per day to 20 casts of each spell per week. That is less than 2 heal spells available per day at that ratio.

Really?

The announcement made it sound like just the spell tree would be reset along with the other spells, not casts.
[/quote]

if you reset the spell tree, logically all your casts are reset because you lose all your spells, no? This is my impression as to what was happening normally from the mp6's iv known however could be complete lies since iv never been mp6 lol

however i would agree that only 2 casts day or so is small for heal, perhaps each one needs a different "max", murry did mention changes revolving mp6 a loooong time ago, perhaps "we" could do them starting with spells and what they do, but ideally of course this needs to be spearheaded by a mp6

[Phantom Orchid]

The mp6 system is broken, has been for a long time. And yes, heals already suck - level 4 gives 4k max VE at best, but they are still marginally helpful for new players.

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1345526352' post='120643']

however i would agree that only 2 casts day or so is small for heal, perhaps each one needs a different "max", murry did mention changes revolving mp6 a loooong time ago, perhaps "we" could do them starting with spells and what they do, but ideally of course this needs to be spearheaded by a mp6
[/quote]

That would require collaboration, which I am sure the current protectors would be willing to do, but, there would have to be interest on the other end...

Honestly, this 'improvement' happened after a day of me spamming the 'harmful' prot spells at Eon and dst.

This is not about 'fixing' the protector spells, this is about who is able to pull some strings.... and I'm calling BS.

[Maebius]

Hmm, that is a worrying change recently. They used to reset every day, and I agreed, from when I was MP6, the Heals were nice, but rather limited for anyone other than a new MP3. The "harmfull" spells were potentially a bit nicer to have 20 of each day. (I made them into Enchanted Stones usually)
Perhaps fixing the Heals back to 20/day and limit the other ones to 8/day or such? (so they can still be Enchanted?)

or, this is just the sign of something larger coming for MP6 stage "very soon"[size=1](tm)[/size] ??

[Chewett]

As a note, illusion spells were limited so you can't enchant them as you can he illusions daily, so I see some reasoning from that point of view.

But mp6 does need some work, interesting to see people care now a more a usable side has been removed, Iv only seem a couple people actually care before enough to make posts and raise a fuss

[Phantom Orchid]

95% of what I have done as protector is give heals. Now that the limited usefulness is made even less useful for that purpose, I find it insulting to my 40+ adepts and 39 worshipers that I can help them even less now. It took much effort on my part to achieve this status, and it takes even more to maintain it... but, when this 'fix' came along - which is only an out-of-game backlashes responding to in-game events (heaven forbid someone take a small stand against the two most powerful villains of the game) - I am finding it difficult to convince myself to continue (*claps for dst*).

And I have spoken with several people and 'made a fuss' about how broken it is - but apparently not the right ones, or I was not the right person to be doing it. I also didn't have any experience with mp6 at the Time.

But I'm not a fan of 'making a fuss' without shedding some light forward - so a few thoughts:

The adept system- When I came into the realm it worked wonderfully. The adept system was used to connect new players with their own helpers, ones who would take the time to show them around, answer questions - kind of like a personal LHO who could take one deeper into the realm. Now with the 100 AD requirement, it has been reduced to just another requirement hoop for mp6.

Prot-heal: Should be changed to either % of caster's or % of target's VE.

Accessibility- These days the realm can only seem to hold 2 protectors - which maybe is its 'balance' right now, but I know there are a couple of dedicated fighters who deserve a chance to upgrade their creatures. They are even willing to pay each of their adepts to actualize their desires. While I think that this is tacky, it does show a certain desperation that has come from the lack of available opportunity.

I know there are current and past mp6 players who probably have some really great suggestions and would be willing to help fix things (for real, and not just want to make bug 'fix' suggestions to be annoying).

Edited August 21, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Jubaris]

I agree with Phantom Orchid on the previous way of things working.

Some features really gave some good results, but all that "making sure nobody abuses it" turned number of features into something that... Is not so good as it used to be.
I think that adepthood, for one, should give more benefit than harm if we revert it to "anyone being able to adept anyone" (with some basic alt restriction, but nothing complicated like this below 100 days. Perhaps lower it to 5, or 10, because being adept is most important during that age, not when you're older than 100 days)


To make an ontopic statement, this can be applied to this new feature of limiting the effectiveness of MP6 players. This new 'fix' just makes it way more limited, reducing number of reasons for a player to stay on MP6 further on. Perhaps, if you want to put MP6 on hold, you should disable it for a while, rather than wreck it up, but keeping it alive?

Edited August 21, 2012 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[DARK DEMON]

Wouldn't it be better to reduce the adept requirement for MP6 so that there are more than 2 MP6's at one time? The requirement 30 adepts now I think, and 15 wouldn't be bad. If heals are not enough, and if they have limited casts, then increasing the number of casters is the only way to go.

Just my opinion.

Edited August 21, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Burns]

The following will (hopefully) sound familiar to you Council guys, for the rest of you, that's the MP6 input we've sent to the council in early April.


Inside of MP6, it'd be important that spells finally get some power. Heal could be 10%, but at least 3.000, attack and def boosts 20%, at least 50, curse and weaken could cut the stats of a target by 10-15%, but at least x, you get the idea. The times when 50 attack were nice are gone.

Holy army should, if possible together with guardian army, get fixed to work as defense, that's what the whole idea was about.
Also if possible, you could change some things with the mp6 skill tree, heal hasn't had any levels since 2 years, for example. Maybe it's time to remodel it completely, make heal the only lowest level spell and give that for merely being mp6 and replace the heals in the tree with high end protector spells, for example freeze 3/4, or higher weaken and curse.
The real issues i see are with MP6 being almost unreachable for most people, though.

5 should be the last normal level, yes, agreed, but all too many creatures require MP6 to get powerful. We're losing too many people who would stay to the fact that the best creatures are only available in exchange for wishpoints, and to the vets.
Half the people who would like to actually play a protector role never get a chance because the few people whom you meet on the road don't switch away from their old friends, and on the other hand, accomplished vets like lighty just show up, say that they need to level drachs, and reach mp6 two days later.

Because of that, i think that you need to radically change the concept of becoming MP6. 30 adepts is an almost impossible task to the nobodys out there, who only want to upgrade their rustgold or want to try to become a mediocre protector to suit their roles.

On the other hand, the really good protectors are always at risk of losing their status, and with that all their worshippers.
What i think to be necessary, therefore, is a system that allows people to get to MP6 more easily, and at the same time make sure that the protectors who play for the sake of being protectors get more stability.
I realize that this is a tricky bit of work, and i have no idea what notes mur might have left to you guys, but i do have an idea you might be interested in.

I suggest that, when you 'finish' MP5, you get the chance to simply upgrade to MP6, similar to the process you upgrade from 4 to 5 in the scroll. For that, you need to max out your heat and all the principles you chose (currently 28m and 4k), but no adepts are necessary for that.

This should be a hard enough task for newcomers, as you need to visit at least 3 different altars to finish off your principles, and sacrifice about 40 million heat in creatures.

The moment you finish those tasks and choose to upgrade, you start to lose principle points. The strain of forcing the char beyond the normal limitations is so big that they start to lose one point per minute on all their principles.
Once the principles are used up, they drop back to MP5 again, that's about 3 days after upgrading which seems suitable for an upgrade spree as well as a trial period as protector.

Those instable MP6 can turn into stable MP6 with a certain number of worshippers, i'd suggest 10-15, similar to the current upgrade requirement of 30 adepts. When they have enough worshippers, they stop to lose principle points, thus being able to stay at MP6 for an indefinite time, without the risk of losing the status because some vet drains their adept base.

From my pen, with the help of Shemhazaj and Amoran (we were the protectors back then)

[dst]

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1345528475' post='120647']
The mp6 system is broken, has been for a long time. And yes, heals already suck - level 4 gives 4k max VE at best, but they are still marginally helpful for new players.



That would require collaboration, which I am sure the current protectors would be willing to do, but, there would have to be interest on the other end...

Honestly, this 'improvement' happened after a day of me spamming the 'harmful' prot spells at Eon and dst.

This is not about 'fixing' the protector spells, this is about who is able to pull some strings.... and I'm calling BS.
[/quote]


Yes Phantom, I reported the bug. I'm a bug researcher* and I was surprised to see why you didn't care about the amount of spells you cast on Eon (I don't care for me because I don't fight).
Besides, you have an aweful amount of spell stones which you got them by using this bug. So yes, I reported it. And apparently it was considered important enough (or easy enough to fix) to get done really soon.

*since you all question the role of my ally, here you have a slight glimps of what it is.

Have fun.

[Jubaris]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1345720157' post='120836']
*since you all question the role of my ally, here you have a slight glimps of what it is.
[/quote]

Snitching people?

Edited August 23, 2012 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Phantom Orchid]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1345720157' post='120836']
Yes Phantom, I reported the bug. I'm a bug researcher* and I was surprised to see why you didn't care about the amount of spells you cast on Eon (I don't care for me because I don't fight).
Besides, you have an aweful amount of spell stones which you got them by using this bug. So yes, I reported it. And apparently it was considered important enough (or easy enough to fix) to get done really soon.

*since you all question the role of my ally, here you have a slight glimps of what it is.

Have fun.
[/quote]

This 'bug' has been in effect for years and been 'exploited' by protectors for years then, by your logic - why have you not said anything until this point in time - the same day or day after I had some fun for an hour or two using evil protector spells (which I have legitimately earned by having enough worshipers) on you and Eon?

And about the enchanted stones. I agree, it was too easy for mp6 to make a lot of them - that is why I have chosen to give the ones I make away to my protectors, random characters, or rewards for quests - I haven't sold any of them. Again, you only made this an issue the same day or day after I spammed you and Eon for an hour or two with some naughty protector spells. Why?

I am deciding to not speak any more with you, in-game or out, unless I can see that you take some responsibility for your actions by answering this question. The timing of your decision to act on this speaks volumes, and what truth there is hides behind a very thin veneer.

I had higher expectations about your very important role, that you would bring these 'bugs' to light at all times, not just when it serves you.

If you'd like to contribute to the topic of this thread, please do so. I would love to hear your opinion on how you think the mp6 system/spells might be improved.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[VertuHonagan]

I might have a suggestion as for he heal spells. Rather than having them reset only once a week. Have the spells refill daily by the average amount of active MP3s within x amount of days. This way there would be enough spell counters for these protection spells to be used at least once on each of the true MP3s that would need these protection spells to help them out. Maybe having this counter discount any MP3 with the same IP address as another user to prevent alt abuse.

[Chewett]

If protectors want to try and get some protector fixes again contact [bugs] and we can try and get some discussion. Last time this occured one protector was offensive and i was disinclined to continue the discussions.