Voting Decision by Council

[awiiya]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1354776989' post='127583']
No, their job is not easy and it should not be easy. If it were easy, Mur would still be doing it, no? The Council gets power in exchange for their effort. They get the reins, but they have to hold tight to make sure they don't slip and fall away. If everybody hates the Council so so much, they would all quit the game, leave it all behind, but people keep showing up. We're lucky we have any say at all, really. Do you think a relatively young world of warcraft player could be acknowledged by the greater community? You can forget about whoever it is that makes the decisions in that game, I assume. MD is what we make of it. We're given the surface of the pond, but the fun is exploring the depths, and the Council can't take that from you by making the superficial decisions that just need to be made.
[/quote]

I don't view it this way: for power you must slave. I think that those who are happy and enjoy what they do and get positive feedback do better jobs. I believe that power is best in the hands of the happy, not in the hands of the callous. I know i have done my best job not when I was battling everyone I was trying to help but when I felt a sense of community and wholeness. I can only imagine that the Council works in a similar way.

The Council, for better or for worse, has kept the status quo. This means that although no one particularly dilikes the Council, no one particularly likes them either. Is this best? Is this what we aspire to? I do not aspire to the baseline.

And I think I disagree with the sentiment that "Council can't take that from you by making the superficial decisions that just need to be made." I think in a lot of ways the Council should ignite us to create, and lead by example. Frankly, they seem stiff and bored.

Awi

Edited December 6, 2012 by awiiya

[ZenTao]

While I have accepted the Counsel's decisions, I do not feel that anyone has the right to say that the votes cast for me were not quality arguments in my favor. For anyone to say this is quite frankly insulting, not only to me but to all the players who voted in my favor. I feel that when casting a community vote we should all be equal in our power of vote, Vets or not and Positive or negative forum status. It is discouraging knowing it does not matter how the majority of the community feels. It's unfortunate that by association I was deemed unfit to do a job I did well. While I do not understand why Counsel gave a reason like " We needed someone who was not a former TK to Lead because of repeated issues in the past" nor do I understand how those "issues" relate to me, I do wonder why they want me to still be involved in the TK. I'm sorry to say my days as a Treasure Keeper are over. It does not mean I will not try to find another home in the LOTE, or that I will stop being active or assist in other ways. In the end I must remember that I was doing this as a way of serving the community and I had fun doing so and I am thankful so many of you believed in me.

[Change]

I have been in some councils before, both rpg ones, and chat community ones. In all of them there was a "we know best" mentality, a "our decisions must not be questioned or else there will be chaos" mentality, and a "we must stay anonymous and 'professional'" mentality. I could of stayed, but I was tired of the opinion that someone like me was instantly more intelligent or in the right just because I got a position in a council. They also disliked how much I advocated for the transparancy of the community, and for everyone to get their opinion seriously considered.

It's not even the people in the council's fault for this effect. I'm sure some of you have heard about the [url="http://www.intropsych.com/ch15_social/zimbardos_prison_study.html"]Zimbardo's Prison Study[/url]. When people are given masks and power, they Change. Not all Change is for the better.

Yes, the idea that just because the majority wants something makes it a good idea is false. However, so is the idea that just because some people are skilled in getting into exclusive groups, they are more in the right than the majority. I'm very good at diplomacy (when I want to be). I could probably get into many positions if I wanted to. However, I'd rather stay true to myself, and thus a great deal of what I say isn't diplomatic.

Edit: Don't misunderstand, I'm not intending to imply that anyone in the council lied about who they are to get into it. I'm just saying, that there's brute honesty, and there's diplomacy. Diplomacy is what usually wins one friends, though brute honesty is, to be honest, more honest.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Change

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[Menhir]

I just had a short chat with Awiiya and we scratched a little bit of this here without even knowing it.

From my point of view we as human beings can only create together. Together but still as unique individuals who understand themselfs as a complex but single piece of a much bigger puzzle.

I´m asking: How could one solve a "problem" being just a single part of the problem?

We as so called community can only create together in a way we would like it and no distance between us can help to overcome appearing difficulties. Conflicts are necessary to create friction and with this comes movement and then change. Stagnation is getting more and more hands on the realm (this is my personal opinion) and with stagnation come change someday, change not as we would love to see it. Death is change too from my point of view, but we can hardly deal with it in a positive way, so the death of MD would change something in our lives for sure, but could we see it in a constructive way, I doubt that. So why not choose self made change? We can change everything in a constructive way, but we have to do this together and as mentioned above before we cannot do it together if we don´t even know each other and not without friction at all. I loved the time when Mur was still active but nothing inside myself can blame him or anything of changing his life but that doesn´t mean MD has to stop or we have to stop. Over the time I talked with some and got the feeling that not only a few were feeling that with the leaving of Mur MD lost something ,maybe its core its destination. But now I have to admit that this is just an excuse (I speak only for myself now). Excuse because a "project" like MD is never in the hands of one it grows with the energy people are willing to put in and one alone (Mur) is not able to bring this energy in. And so is the "issue" with the council. Imagine MD would grow bigger, lets say 500 active which would be nothing compared to other projects, but it would leave an impact on the work which needs to be done in MD. I guess with 500 people speaking out there would be a much bigger force behind the needed changes in MD. MD so tiny with its community and so we can somehow life with a hidden secret council but is it working for the constructive evolution of MD? One can clearly see in many posts its not. I don´t know the reasons why Mur left but I know why we are stuck in this situation: we are afraid of change but need it desperately at the same time. Please do not ask me as a single member about a solution ... we can only find out and fix this together with or without council, hidden or not, it will always be us together. How is in our hands somehow .

We still have no kings again - since how long is this situation waiting for a change? We have many such pending situations.

What about we make a list again of things we can change without any help from the council or Mur. And another one were we are in need of the higher forces. And then put a time line together when things should be finished for both sides (if possible). At least we would have a start. At the moment we are somewhere in the void without proper feeling of a movement and I do not say its the fault of the council or Mur or us as community. I say it´s a situation which can be changed by all of us together.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Menhir

[No one]

@Dark Demon & Seighart: You seem very upset that LS was chosen over Zen. Good. Do something about it.
@Pip: Stating that "council is stupid" is stupid and denotes a the shallow consumer's thinking.

Stating that they don't give what ppl wants sais only that you are "shallow thinker".
Consider that everyone wants 1million GC, 1million WP & creatures, would you play MD ? plain stupid .
[color=#0000cd]The job of the council is to LIMIT and PONDER the access and decisions, to consider the good of ALL / [/color][color=#0000cd]impact [/color][color=#0000cd]on ALL instead of just one.[/color]


@Seighart: as this is created to satisfy your personal ego, i will respond to you as I always respond to such questions:

Now that you have created this empty topic, it is your duty to fill it: make the counts.
Should we consider that you are all mouth and too lazy ?
SO:
- do the math (counts),
- then check & remove all those with no reason stated
- check & remove the wrong reasons and personal irrelevant reasons (wrong from everyone's opinion not by you alone)
Example: I don't like that one because he is friend with x, y, z
Example: he/she is my friend
And post the results (for each step so that you can show that you did your job).
Also, post the remaining list (link to their posts) so that we can help you with quotations for each one. Gather the quotations and post the result.

Only when you've done all that you can ask "why?" and expect a positive reaction.

Otherwise you will still be taken as the brainless loudmouth that we are all used with.

[size=1]Please excuse me from being blunt to you, but you are not taking any hints.[/size]

Edited December 6, 2012 by No one

[Change]

Death causes Change, yes. However, slow Death causes slow Change, and rapid death causes rapid Change. MD as a whole is not dying fast, but slowly. The Community Garden, a big change, was created from fast deaths.

Sometimes you need to burn everything away with Heat, and rebuilt something from the ashes.

[awiiya]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1354787585' post='127634']
Spend some time to find out what mur previously said about Jonn and him dealing with bannings. Its a [i]very [/i]interesting and has a lot of comparison to the council. Until you see his reasoning i dont think you will understand what "the council" is. Failing that, talk to him about it, you get a lot of interesting ideas. Not that i necessarily agree with all of them, but if you want the "why" of council, thats the path of research to go to.
[/quote]

Would you be so kind as to share what Mur previously said about Jonn and him dealing with bannings?

Awi