old active day players make it unfair

[DARK DEMON]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400](wanted to keep this separate)[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I've noticed that there are some really old players who take up much of the % due to their big land score in some lands. They are either just logging in for AD or are unaware/do not care to vote.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]It's unfair cause their vote makes a huge difference.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]EDIT: who put this into a new thread? By separate I meant in another post...[/color][/font]

Edited December 14, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

It's unfair how?

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1355489845' post='128187']
It's unfair how?
[/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#008000]I thought the system was like this, that the higher land score a person has the higher % he has in voting. Someone with 1000+ land loyalty would make a big difference in voting whereas a person with 1 land loyalty would barely affect votes at all... that's how it goes, I think, doesn't it?[/color][/font]

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[dst]

I know that but I still don't understand why you say it's unfair?
Because they don't vote? Voting is something you choose to do or not. It's not mandatory.
And what id they don't care? Is that unfair?

[DARK DEMON]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Never said it's a big issue or something.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I just pointed out that it's unfair that the people with a large % of land score don't vote and this makes a big difference in the result of the vote.[/color][/font]

[dst]

And again, why unfair? It's their right. They've earned it.

[Change]

Well, if it were to be changed, one suggestion would be to make it more dynamic. Make not voting have a much smaller negative influence so that it would potentially only take one vet/loyal player to vote someone in (if no one else voted). Thus, Maebius could vote for someone who applied to join Marind Bell and if no one else voted, they would be in after seven days. However, anyone could start a vote to remove them as a citizen, and those who don't vote would have an equally small influence that says that they stay (ie. by not voting, they don't seem to care if that person stays). The amount of influence that the people who don't vote have should only be large enough to prevent alt abuse.

If the percent needed to get in is 80% loyalty in favour, then the percentage needed to vote someone out would be 21% in favour (of voting them out). Therefore, someone with 50-100 AD or so could start a vote to vote someone out of the land, and if no one else voted, the person would be removed from the land. Of course, people would be able to see who started votes, so if for some reason everyone is asleep for a week, and they really liked the person voted out, they could vote out whoever voted them out as punishment.

Just some suggestions.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Change

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[DARK DEMON]

Suggestion!

When the vote is to let someone into the land, not voting SHOULD count as a negative vote.

But when you're voting for someone to be kicked out, not voting should NOT be counted as anything. Only those who have voted should be taken into account in the %.

Edited December 14, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[Change]

Ahah! [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/11445-summon-by-tag-what-to-how-to/#entry101135"]Found it.[/url]

From that post, it seems that Mur wants an automated leadership system to take place. (Yes, it's much more complex than that). I'm thinking that this might be in line with that, somewhat. The only case where one quite loyal person would dictate citizenship policy would be either when no one else votes, or when they have enough loyalty to outvote everyone who votes against them.

I agree that just one somewhat meaningless number such as loyalty shouldn't make someone effectively a King. Therefore, there should be a place where you can vote in favour and in disfavour for a citizen. If a citizen is favoured, then their loyalty for voting purposes effectively becomes greater (it'd be almost a similar concept to adepts). However, if a citizen is disfavoured, their loyalty for voting purposes becomes lesser. So, someone with 1000 loyalty could have two people with 300 loyalty in disfavour of them, making their effective voting loyalty equal 400. This could be an expotential process, so there would be a bonus based on the number of people who favour and disfavour someone, makine two 500 loyalty people's favour/disfavour be worth more than one 1000 loyalty person's.

Ex. Total loyaltiesx(1+number of people in favour/disfavour*0.10) = total effective loyalty of the group in favour/disfavour.

Thus, with the previous example, 500+500x(1+2*0.10) = 1000x1.2 = 1200.

I just came up with this off of the top of my head, but the point is that two people with 500 loyalty would outweight someone with 1000 loyalty, preventing the 1000 loyalty person from just disfavouring all citizens to make their effective voting loyalty useless. (Note, the disfavours/favours of citizens do not affect a citizens power to favour/disfavour a citizen, otherwise it'd just be a rush for people to disfavour everyone that they can).

The formula for favouring/disfavouring could be changed so it's more expotential (thus making 20 people with 30 loyalty have a huge effective favouring power) or it could be made less affected by the number of people in the favour or disfavour of someone.

The specifics of my examples are just quick suggestions that I came up with in a few seconds. Rather than focusing on the specifics I give, you should focus on the general idea of what I'm suggesting.

EDIT: Yeah, I just realized how giving the number of people favouring someone too much power could make it open to alt abuse. That is, a 1000 loyalty player with 10 alts, could get the 10 alts to favour/disfavour someone with it, and thus more than double the influence of his or her 1000 loyalty on favouring or disfavouring someone. This is why the specifics are not as important right now as the general idea. They'd need to be determined if it is going to be implemented though.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Change

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1355492575' post='128202']
And again, why unfair? It's their right. They've earned it.
[/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I'm sure you understand this, dst. If know you do.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]You know that I'm not trying to point out those inactive players who don't care for voting. I'm talking about the ones who log in just for AD and some of them don't even know there's a voting system going on. Look at SmartAlekRJ's mood panel post:[/color][/font]

[color=#000000][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][quote name='SmartAlekRJ's mood panel post']
Is there some voting system going on? Got a few pms asking me to vote for them?
[/quote][/font][/color]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]The above is just one example, but there are many.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]They would have earned their right if they were DOING something right now, you know...[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400](yes, I am aware they did great things in the past)[/color][/font]

Edited December 15, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1355545237' post='128235']
Go educuate them, if you are going to suggest RJ doesnt deserve his land days i would be very much saddened at you. I assume you know what he has done in the past?
[/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Yes I do, and I ~never~ said that RJ doesn't deserve his land days. I'm just stating that if someone like him doesn't even know about voting, shouldn't there be something done about it?[/color][/font]

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1355549303' post='128240']
He is pretty much inactive at the moment, he just logs on during festivals like many vets, if he read the forum or announcedments or actually talked to people he would find out.
[/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Yes I know, which is probably why the GG votes are failing. MB must probably have a similar case.[/color][/font][font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400] You still don't agree with me?[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I don't know any other way to explain this...[/color][/font]

[Mallos]

Could either increase the rate at which the system counts you as inactive for the votes or make it so if you dont vote it doesnt have such a negative impact.

I'd opt for the second option. If you didnt vote, its probably not because you wanted to vote no. Abstain would work well in that case, its basically the same thing. And if theres a lot who dont vote, it wont necessarily make it easy to control the votes. If you didnt want Eon in your land youd vote against him if you cared so much. Same if you did want him in your land.

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[Valldore Nal]

In order to manage that, a list with all current citizens of each land is needed, who were considered inactive or active at any given vote and preferably either who voted what and who abstained or at least the total loyalty numbers for each choice .

And personally, i have no idea where or how to find such data.

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Valldore Nal' timestamp='1355556587' post='128246']
In order to manage that, a list with all current citizens of each land is needed, who were considered inactive or active at any given vote and preferably either who voted what and who abstained or at least the total loyalty numbers for each choice .

And personally, i have no idea where or how to find such data.
[/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Loreroot has formed a list of current citizens. If each land can do the same and/or appoint someone as censor...[/color][/font]

[Valldore Nal]

[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1355556749' post='128247']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Loreroot has formed a list of current citizens. If each land can do the same and/or appoint someone as censor...[/color][/font]
[/quote]

Appoint someone as censor ? Would you mind explaining ?

What i had in mind about that data was to do some calculations over how much each person possibly affects a vote and then each land could judge the possibility of a vote to succeed or fail based on their knowledge of who is active and who is not.

Using the data to get some results doesn't need any censor, and after that its each lands responsibility to find a solution to a possible problem that may exist.

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Valldore Nal' timestamp='1355557589' post='128248']
Appoint someone as censor ? Would you mind explaining ?
[/quote]

During the time when there were kings, there used to be someone called a censor who would keep track of citizens.

[dst]

[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1355557800' post='128249']
During the time when there were kings, there used to be someone called a censor who would keep track of citizens.
[/quote]

That was "internal affairs". It was something regulated by each land. I don't even know if every land has such a person.

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1355555878' post='128245']
The mb votes fail as we vote against people lol
[/quote]

That's kinda obvious for many of them...

I was referring in general.