Brainstorming about Torches

[dst]

Azull posted something regarding TCs in a thread and starting from there we had a little brainstorming regarding how this should function.
I'll post below the few ideas that we came up so we can discuss them and hopefully we'll have a decent plan of functioning that we can present to the council.


-only the 4 main lands would be able to participate because the rest have too few people and will not be able to defend their land. However, a system of mercenaries can be set so players that want to participate can enlist (this way everybody that wants, can have a bit of fun)
-mp3s will not be allowed to participate because of the multiple abuses that can be done via new accounts (however Miq suggested that we might have some sort of TC only for new players but this should be a different discussion)
-the heavy ap loss that you have while carrying a torch should be removed. Same for the smaller regen interval. The regen, ap, visc etc should be the normal ones. This way each land can defend its territory easily and they will have an incentive to hire mercenaries.
-if you drop a torch you should not be able to pick another one for a certain amount of time (this was a way to abuse the faster regen time but if we go for normal regen, this should not be needed anymore)
-players should not have access to restricted places while carrying a torch as they did in the past (again, because of the "nice" abuses)
-Azull suggsted that maybe for the mercenaries, we could use the illusions (Soldier of ...) but this requires heavy coding and I doubt council will agree to it so maybe they will agree to the enlist option (I guess BHC setup for enlisting can be used...I don't know...I'm jusat saying)
-Miq made another suggestion: first 3 steps into enemy territory should be under the rules of current TC functioning (aka you lose half of your Ap each step)


Azull, Miq if I forgot anything please add it. Buffer is getting low

[Jubaris]

Picking up a badge of opponent's land to get killed on purpose is still a legit way to fight, right? In such case, imagine non-ally MP6s, if you get two of them to plot and help one land, who will be able to stop them? There are so few of them.

P.S. Looking forward to the Torch competition starting out again.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[dst]

If MP6es are not allied this means they cannot be attacked and cannot attack, right? (been a long time since I was one so I am not 100% sure about the second one).
So all they can do is cast spells which can be done either way.
And let's be honest, there are soo many ways to counter this starting with setting rules from the start (aka hard coded) or heh...what if the warsheep-ers decide not to support the mp6 because that mp6 is damaging their land? Huh?

[Shemhazaj]

[quote]
-the heavy ap loss that you have while carrying a torch should be removed. Same for the smaller regen interval. The regen, ap, visc etc should be the normal ones. This way each land can defend its territory easily and they will have an incentive to hire mercenaries.
[/quote]

[color=#808080][i]That'd mean that because of viscosity one can walk to MB and Loreroot capitol in matter of seconds, while reaching Necro and GG capitols require quite a long time of recovering the Ap to overcome viscosity.[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Or am I missing something?[/i][/color]

Edited January 29, 2013 by Shemhazaj

[Mallos]

Make it so that the viscosity doesn't affect a player, but the AP loss still does (or maybe only to an extent).

Edited January 29, 2013 by Mallos

[dst]

[quote name='Shemhazaj' timestamp='1359448238' post='131587']
[color=#808080][i]That'd mean that because of viscosity one can walk to MB and Loreroot capitol in matter of seconds, while reaching Necro and GG capitols require quite a long time of recovering the Ap to overcome viscosity.[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Or am I missing something?[/i][/color]
[/quote]

Yes, you're right. That is why I like Miq's idea about first 3 steps to have the same rules as torches + the mercenaries.
But if you prefer the old method, we can go with that. My problem is that it takes too damn long and players get bored (I personally was bored to death) waiting for the regen.

[Shemhazaj]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1359450798' post='131592']
Yes, you're right. That is why I like Miq's idea about first 3 steps to have the same rules as torches + the mercenaries.
But if you prefer the old method, we can go with that. My problem is that it takes too damn long and players get bored (I personally was bored to death) waiting for the regen.
[/quote]

[color=#808080][i]Yeah, I was bored as well. The thing is, with Miq's idea you'd still get stuck in Necro or GG a long time. (3 steps costing half Ap + all the rest with close to 40 viscosity)[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Perhaps Torch could be scripted to have a fixed Ap requirement ignoring viscosity? like maybe 20 Ap each step?[/i][/color]

[Jubaris]

Hmmmm... It was a while when I was an mp6, but, I think it was a matter of a non-ally mp6 not having "attack button", so other mp6 couldn't attack him via the interface, but I think he was still 'attackeable', and the torch competition would give an mp6 that "attack button", as it does with everyone.

The whole mp6 scenario is not that likely to happen, but still, since we're at the discussion table


Anyways, if we're to make it right, let's just remember some old problems Torch had. There were complaints on Marind Bell - Loreroot access routes, later having greater advantage.

[Azull]

Some other things that came up during our brainstorming. (I'll just list them here without further comments for now, to entice discussion )
-Better rewards for scoring.
-Land treasuries implemented.
-Will torch bearers need at least one win to actually score, yes/no?
-frequency and duration of the event.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Azull

[Miq]

[quote name='Shemhazaj' timestamp='1359451512' post='131593']
[color=#808080][i]Yeah, I was bored as well. The thing is, with Miq's idea you'd still get stuck in Necro or GG a long time. (3 steps costing half Ap + all the rest with close to 40 viscosity)[/i][/color]
[color=#808080][i]Perhaps Torch could be scripted to have a fixed Ap requirement ignoring viscosity? like maybe 20 Ap each step?[/i][/color]
[/quote]

My point was mostly that once you have done your first steps then all the rest of the same land (non dead end) scenes would be 1 ap. First steps would be reset if you exit the land. So it will take you 30 minutes to get into a land and after that you can make a blitz for it.

[Chewett]

a compromise is needed between being able to move from your homeland to anothers in two minutes due to large ap + negative viscosity and only being able to move one scene per tick. Ideally you want to "fight" as you go through the land, with the possibility of missing a couple of people via fast movement, but not being able to run past every single member.

[Soothing Sands]

Maybe if you enter a scene in which you are not the only one with a torch, you lose ap? So you can go fast until you run into someone?

It would also be nice if the torch increased minimum viscosity, but did not raise the maximum amount.

Maybe torches show up on the map, so you can see where people are? not sure about that one.

[Maebius]

What if Heat gets converted to AP while carrying a Torch, or something. I can't maths at the moment, but the idea of Torches using the Heat you'd usually get via Viscosity and "burning it away" might be a nice compromise? (assuming I'm thinknig of it right). Low Visc would let you walk easily like it does now, and high Viscosity maybe could provide a minor AP boost. Not enough to negate it, but to ease the regen to one tick or something Using an algorithm would make it easy to adjust/balance by tweaking the equation then, rather than adding rules/conditions?

(edit: not the sort of Heat that Protectors get, as in Active Erolin... sorta. I meant the Heat gain from traveling... so it is that Heat, but would not directly use your Erolin Heat, just the calculation used to gain it while moving)

Edited January 30, 2013 by Maebius

[Chewett]

To make it clearer I believe M is talking about getting ap based on the amount of heat you gain. Aka ap for moving.

[tankfans]

My problem with previous torch competitions is that I couldn't find any player with the torch on the opponent side so I couldn't score
Timezone problems :|

I'm not sure how difficult it is to implement this but here is my suggestion.
A citizen can grab a torch from his capital, he then travels to the other capitals to score, let's call him the torch bearer.
However, when a torch bearer moved into a scene with citizens of the land he is in, he will not be able to move until all defenders(citizens + mercenaries) of that land on that scene are defeated/killed in battle.
Sheath = Defeated; Sheath Ballance = Killed
If a torch bearer is killed, he will lose his torch and die for 25 minutes.
If a torch bearer is defeated, he will be disabled (move-locked and attack-locked) in place for 10 minutes without losing the torch.
If a defender is killed, he will die for 30 minutes and then teleport to the capital he is defending after the cool down.
If a defender is defeated, he will be disabled (move-locked and attack-locked) for 10 minutes.

So, it will be more like a blockade game.

Edited January 30, 2013 by tankfans

[Muratus del Mur]

i believe i requested torch to be stopped, regardless if its so or not, i do not remember at all WHY it was stopped

can anyone make me a veeerryyyy short and radable list of the reasons?

 

Thank you

[Chewett]

i believe i requested torch to be stopped, regardless if its so or not, i do not remember at all WHY it was stopped
can anyone make me a veeerryyyy short and radable list of the reasons?
 
Thank you

Lack of Point
Lack of Participation
Complete lack of fairness due to Bobs new land positioning makes it neigh impossible to play actually. *long version


*long Version - Bobs position is treated as a land capital, therefore its really hard to get into necro or GG, It also makes it much harder to get from necro and GG via walking. That was the "last straw" and it was stopped.

[Jubaris]

Lot of the technicalities were already mentioned here, looking at the original torch competition (before Bob the tree's capitol introduction) it was very interesting, but it lacked reward system which made it pointless, and the scoring was very nontransparent and confusing.

 

It was mentioned 'radar' feature will be implemented for the participants, so every player holding a torch will have his current location known by other people. That sounds pretty neat.

 

I suggest at keeping it relatively simple like was the case at the start of it, rather than introducing many features that will just spam it.

I'm not sure what is this illusion feature you guys are mentioning (in the other torch topic) that was planned to be implemented, it's making me uneasy. x)

[Muratus del Mur]

I believe the illusions update will change the perspective of how torch runs, but maybe thats just me. I am agqainst changing any rules of how torch currently runs, instead i think having "torch only" pickable powerup items that could bypass certain restrictions or offer certain advantages is something more interesting to do (and easyer for me since i don't remember how torch works, but i know how to do such items ).

 

Chew, could you document somewhere the way torch can be reactivated?  in case you remember, step by step. If i catch a full work night one day i might play a bit with this forgotten feature :)

 

Before "fixing" torch, i think i need to do "pickables that appear based on rules", that will integrate well with the torch as well as with many other things in autumn2050. I love it when i can work on something new that fixes old stuff in a creative way :D

[Chewett]

I believe the illusions update will change the perspective of how torch runs, but maybe thats just me. I am agqainst changing any rules of how torch currently runs, instead i think having "torch only" pickable powerup items that could bypass certain restrictions or offer certain advantages is something more interesting to do (and easyer for me since i don't remember how torch works, but i know how to do such items ).
 
Chew, could you document somewhere the way torch can be reactivated?  in case you remember, step by step. If i catch a full work night one day i might play a bit with this forgotten feature :)
 
Before "fixing" torch, i think i need to do "pickables that appear based on rules", that will integrate well with the torch as well as with many other things in autumn2050. I love it when i can work on something new that fixes old stuff in a creative way :D

Sounds like we do need your coder manual, or as i will call it, Mur manual, so you can be reminded of stuff.

[Muratus del Mur]

I'll start doing one starting today and post in there all the things related to the work i do now, eventually while i will shift focus over older parts of md, it will contain most of it. Please do the same and complete what is missing whenever it happens you work on something that could be documented.

[Chewett]

I'll start doing one starting today and post in there all the things related to the work i do now, eventually while i will shift focus over older parts of md, it will contain most of it. Please do the same and complete what is missing whenever it happens you work on something that could be documented.

Was this meant to be on a more private forum? Because this is in general?

Mainly because it seems addressed to me, and therefore i think you meant to put it on the coders forum section?