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Community Garden Update and Feedback - May 2013


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Greetings MagicDuel Community!


So now we're in the middle of May and what's going on in the community garden?  I don't know!  I haven't been there!  Nobody has used the Community Garden Logs!


Okay, here's the deal.  You've probably all noticed that I barely get online anymore.  I have gotten a new (old) MacBook so at least I CAN get online, but there's more to it than that.  When I started playing MD, I had a one year old and a two year old kid.  Now they're four and five, and I have another six month old baby.  When I am at home, I spend a lot more time playing with my family than playing at the computer.  In addition to that, I work long hours on an organic farm and I run a garden design business which actually has clients now (Yay!)  Long story short, I'm busy and I can't commit to making much time for MagicDuel.


So that's the end of the garden, right?  NO! WRONG!  This is just the beginning!  I have said it before and I will say it again (perhaps more clearly or with more detail now).  WE NEED MORE LEADERSHIP!  WE HAVE UNFULFILLED ROLES! (yes, just waiting for YOU to fill)


Let's look at three archetypes, creator, sustainer, destroyer.  I have for two years worked as creator for this project.  We have gone from an idea in the midst of a thousand passing ideas to something real and concrete (or pixelated, maybe is the right word).  RIght now, the community garden needs more than anything a sustainer.  A garden manager.  Someone who is going to play in the garden every day, and interact with people, and talk about all the fun events that are going on, and host quests, and give out wishpoints, and all the other fun stuff that goes on in a place in MD.  I will be there to support you 100%.  When you have questions or need any kind of guidance, you will get it from me.  I'm not leaving, but I need to step back and let someone else step out front.  New blood, new energy.


Community Garden is on track to become a guild or receive other types of official recognition (I have suggested a flag instead of a guild as that allows people in other guilds to be garden leaders).  How this process plays out will depend on who steps up and how YOU want your community garden leadership role to function.


Okay, I said it and I hope to see some new excitement in Community Garden Leadership thread.



What about the update?  Well, maybe someone who has been there can provide an update.  Last I recall, we build an awesome shed filled with cool tools and we planted some trees.... and it rained.  And darkraptor is on track to win the Grow Your Own contest with no other active participants.



Right, how about the feedback?  What do you all think of the community garden?  What would encourage you to use it more?  Are you aware that when you grow plants in the community garden, you get that harvest in your inventory?  What could work better?  What holds you back from using it?  I can ask a host of questions, but really, I'd much rather just hear from you.  You know what you want to say.  Please say it.


I'd REALLY like to hear from a lot of people.  The council and Mur are listening and everybody (especially me) needs to know how much time and energy to put into this project.  Judging from the announcements, it seems like we are on the verge of being able to hard-code much more of the garden process.  If you all want gardening to be featured in MD, you need to make clear what you want out of it and let your actions speak as loud as your words.


Somehow this came out a little more like a rant than I intended.  It's been a little frustrating to me that 200 people have participated in the development of the community garden, but at the end of the day it's still just me rolling the ball.


Please give your feedback, whether you have participated or not.


Thanks so much everyone.

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Well, here's a little perspective from someone who has just started, not sure it'll be very useful though.

I looked at this part of the forum and became rather curious about the idea, it all seems very interesting, but for someone who hadn't heard about the project before there was no where I could go for a good, solid description and explanation. An introduction to the garden may be appropriate for newcomers or people that have not heard of the project or are uncertain of its aims. For example I still have no idea where it is located despite looking around for it :)


A second thought I had was that this could provide a good opportunity to integrate new players into the game. From what I understand a farm plot is 'rented' by a player and they get to keep the produce, however I wonder if it is feasible or in enough demand that it may be possible for a new player to garden on behalf of another player, essentially helping the newbie get familiar with the game as well as get help, or paid by, his 'employer'. Of course an 'employer' could possibly be the government of a single land or the like.


I hope some of my feedback may have some use, though I don't expect that it will really since I have had little contact with this project myself, but if I did provide anything useful then I am glad, if you're keeping this rolling by yourself you definately deserve the help! :)

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I don't understand why you're ranting at the community for not supporting YOUR project while you have been away (I will not discuss the reasons for your absence because they are irrelevant). It's your fault if you haven't been able to inspire at least one person to continue your work. So opening this topic only shows me your lack of consideration for the individuals that play this game and most of all your egotism.


Also 200 is a huuuge exaggeration.

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Despite the typically mean way she expresses it, dst makes a valid point. As I mentioned, I didn't mean for this topic to be a rant... it just sorta came out that way. I suppose I needed to express my feelings and this is what rose to the surface.

I'm not trying to force my project onto the community, but I do need to know if the community values this project. If a community garden is not something useful to anyone but me, then it's not really worth my trying to keep it going when I'm not available to use it.

Over the two years, I have received an incredible amount of positive feedback from the Community, the Council, and Mur. When you include all the contributors to the design process, the quest participants, the community garden leadership, the contributing artists, plotholders, toolshed builders, garden roleplayers, council, coders, and Mur, there really are a lot of people who have gotten involved. Positive feedback has encouraged me to continue for a long time now, but it seems not to have been positive enough to form a leadership team that can function without my presence.

Do you want a community garden? If so, is this the community garden that you want? What is most lacking? Information? Opportunities for guided participation? Quests? Integration with other activities in MagicDuel?

It seems everyone is always looking for ways to develop a personal economy, harvesting resources, or trading creatures, or selling spell stones, or whatever. The purpose of the Community Garden is for players to generate resources through roleplay and hopefully through a more integrated system as MDscript continues to develop.

I'll keep throwing these thoughts and questions out there, because I really need the feedback. So much of the development of MD in the past years (resources, cauldrons, etc) offers potential for the community garden. It can really be a great tool for the community if you're willing to learn to use it. At the moment, we're still stuck with the cumbersome community garden logs system. The script for the toolshed was supposed to fix that and it hasn't been worked out yet.

If the community garden were a guild with more participatory decentralized leadership, would you join? I've always avoided a guild because I wanted members of all alliances to be able to join the garden leadership. Perhaps there hasn't been enough incentive to join without a dedicated guild?

I suppose that'll do for now. I'll bring up more specific questions as I think of them. And please, do be so kind as to share your opinion. I know you're reading this ;)

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Mean way? Really? No sh**! Just because I pointed out your flaws and not a** kissed you like the rest of your friends I am mean?


Except for the event that lead to the building of the shed and except for 3 or 4 players that used to keep logs (+ darkraptor who entered your quest) nobody is interested unless you can provide them with something that are more than promises. I can give you words and encourages but that will defo not make me wanna take part in your little game as long as I don't even know what I will win. Face it: MD community is a greedy and selfish one. So stop trying to make it do things if you're not ready to offer palpable incentives. You may have council's/mur's approval and support but so far i have only seen words.

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I fully agree with DST


both of her posts


and having seen your performance for about 1 year in that project, i really wonder why you have council's/mur's approval and support


but its only my personnal opinion



Tom Pouce

Edited by Tom Pouce
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Also, some of us might simply be busy. I've got at least two other games/communities that I participate in, one of which is a place where dozens of roleplays take place. In magicduel alone I'm trying to be a Protector, run the Coloured Paper, and help to mod the forums. Although I probably could easily find the time to work on my plot once in awhile, it feels too much like work if I try and do it regularly.


Mind you, some of that is probably because I need to make a schedule. I bet that I'd be able to work on my garden once every week or two weeks. The problem is, giving rewards out for something makes it seem like work, at least for me. I know at least one person here who has held this view way before me. If I wasn't expecting rewards, I'd just be working on my plot for fun. But since I'm trying to plant things with the goal of a real harvest, the planting and growing feels like work.


Although Magicduel might be 'more than just a game' to some people (like myself), I still play it for enjoyment and the (ideally) regular mental stimulation. Often though, I do things in magicduel not because I particularly enjoy doing them, but because I think they have potential. The problem is, the Community Garden has become yet another one of those things.


I'll try and work on my plot more. People (like myself) often lack dedication in general. Those who don't lack dedication, dedicate themselves to what they feel is the best use of their time. But, sadly, I am in University, taking classes in the spring-summer term. Therefore, I am somewhat busy with school, other magicduel things, and other games. I also know that most people are probably way busier than I am at the moment, and I count myself lucky. (I'm an English student).

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I totally agree with Change and dst (except the fact that she refuses she was mean there >.>)


To be honest what the community garden lacks is practical activity and excitement. There should be numerous community garden-related quests, activities, etc related to clickables, not just restricted to RL stuff like poems, stories and artwork. Even a monthly quest would do. That would get people more involved in this. But, I'm afraid you need to be much more active for this. The person running it can't expect any more time given to the garden from others, than the time he gives it himself.


Secondly, think of new ideas! The garden has it's own role definitely in this realm, but what is it? I've been here almost a year and all I've seen it garden plots and the shed construction, no real garden role. How about something to, perhaps, grow different kind of resources eg: unidentified plants, toxic plants, aromatic herbs? If an idea is worth thinking and implementing, and you have Council's and Mur's support, it'll help. Make it grow by actually DOing something, not just through words. The garden is something that can help expand MD, if promoted properly.


EDIT: maybe even something to identify the unidentified plants? There are so many possibilities! :)

Edited by DARK DEMON
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A given individual would want to take on a leadership position in the Community Garden because they:


- are particularly interested in gardening/applying this interest to MD's setting

- consider themself an effective leader

- seek some sort of material reward

- have spare time to commit

- don't want to see this effort die out


or some combination thereof.


The first one isn't a necessity, but might well make for a more interesting or engaging leader. Then again gardening/farming are generally demanding enough in reality that dedicated growers would likely find themselves in Rumi's predicament.


Effective leadership generally entails clear communication, reasonable expectations, and decent amounts of trust and respect. These aren't always easy to come by; recent realm history is littered with examples. Do just not have enough people with this innate set of qualities? Aren't training them well enough to lead?

Not so!

MD's new players are a vast, mostly untapped resource.

Feel free to correct me on this, but in recent times newbies haven't really taken on or been encouraged to take on leadership roles in the community. The air of "sure you're interested today but we don't know if you'll even be here six months from now" doesn't help. (Newbies, rest assured we bet and discuss your staying power.) MD has a fairly long learning curve, but if we encouraged new people to take up positions such as this one while they learned the ropes, I'm inclined to believe they'd be more likely to stick around.


For those motivated primarily by personal I agree with dst's emphasis on palpable incentives and with the sentiment of the following, if not all its details:

What i c the biggest & better change is this "All quest creators received Anniversary Aramors and some WP codes.

" in MDB

For the first time ALL quest creators have recvd rewards. Unfortunately  It took 8 yrs for the Admins to realize that its important to boost quest creators hehe.      

One of the successes of the RPC era is that it did reward quest creators with RPC/PWR status and abilities appropriate to the rewardee's role.

The Q docs and other rewards for birthday quest creation also especially benefited active new players, to whom such prizes would be even more valuable.

Similarly, it can be hard to get people to do even something they want to do if they don't feel their efforts are worthwhile. While the next Community Garden leader shouldn't act out of selfishness, they will be human and thus motivated by human desires. Much as I disagree with working explicitly with a goal rather than a process in mind, rewarding this leader could be seen as an encouragement for them to spend more time on the Garden.


Stray thought: hold an election of sorts through which the community can choose from several applicants the next leader of its garden. Yes, the organic process is more natural, but so far it doesn't seem to have gotten very far.


People want quests to participate in involving the garden that they feel are reasonable. I've been faithfully watering the pair of avocado pits spiked through with toothpicks (the internet says it works..!) sitting in my kitchen window for the past month or so and not so much as a rootlet has come of them thus far. Those of us with not-so-green thumbs need not sit twiddling them, however: a schedule for garden work could set a structure for other Garden quests.


TL;DR: Involve newbies more; reward quest creators, including the new leader; hold an election for the next leader; make a definite plan for garden work/quests, reemphasize that we all benefit from the garden if we can get it off the ground.

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Thanks for.offering up your ideas, thoughts, and criticism. It is obvious to me that my own lack of participation has been a real hindrance to this project gaining momentum. Unfortunately, I still can't promise participation, which is why I'm looking for other leaders.

What kind of incentives would you want to become a garden leader? It seems we really need two leaders in particular, a manager and a quest creator.

I have a few wishpoints to give out. If I ran a quest creation contest, with the best quest creation getting a WP and another WP to be given as quest reward, would you particpate?

Unfortunately, my scripting partner no longer participates in MD and I have not been able to script the toolshed as I had planned. Would you be interested in writing script to help bring the community garden to life? What would such a script look like to you?

Mur seems to support the development of the garden into the resource network in MD, and has also suggested that gardening can happen anywhere, not just the meeting of the roads scene. Do you think there is merit to a location-based community garden or would a looselg affiliated guild of gardeners make more sense.

The community garden treasury is not excessively rich, but surely has enough resource to provide some participation incentives. How would you distribute these resources? I'd like to pass them to someone who will put them to use. They don't need to sit in my inventory.

Please continue to give your feedback. If really like to hear from more members of the Community.

Edited by Rumi
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  • Root Admin

my point of view is a bit..cruel

I build stuff in md, i develop new features and i imagine what could be done with them. From time to time, or better said _always_ there are people that already aim in that direction. What i do is to play with my toys, continue to develop md, and in this process i APPLY the features i build on the ideas that exist. In the first years i was naive enough to bind features to roles or individual characters, now i build them more generic. When i "support" the garden, i support the garden ideea applied in the way i will be able to implement it. I am grateful to Rumi for fighting for this concept and I am glad now there are tools to make it happen, but unfortunatly I do not see working on this feature as an enhancement to Rumi's role, but an enhancement to MD. If Rumi manages to keep this idea alive that is amazing, if not, the functionality will be designed to work regardless.


Its "too nice to be true" to see people that bring cool ideas also fight for them and be responsable for them from now on. In general roles come and go, thats why whatever i build needs to be a little more independent from one specific person and be more community orientated.


Whatever garden system i will build based on the recently released features, It will need fine tuning and lots of work from someone that actually cares to make it work...and who else if not the person that started the "movement"


At least thats my view on things. I've been told and i know already that there are people out there that deserve a lot more attention than others ...its true, but I am not making favors here...i keep steady in the direction i go and from time to time it intersects with things i could solve on the way..so why not do so.

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Mur's support in this way means more to me than he may know. The community garden as it is now is tied to me and my role. However, I spend little time in game interacting with people and most of my role as designer has existed in the forum, rather than in game. I'd still like to find a garden manager to fill this void.

Much of my interaction with the MD Council has been a discussion of how to implement gardening into the MD network of resources. Mur's dedicating his energy in this direction is a big step for MD in my opinion, and the community garden as it is now can be a playground for this new work if you want it. Truly any place can be.

Please continue to provide your feedback. Perhaps someone in the leadership of each land would consider offering feedback regarding how your land has related to the community garden and maybe how you might like your land to relate to the community garden. How can the garden support the end toward which you work as a leader?

Thanks everyone.

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my comment will be also that real garden in real life if more fun or more likely not an burden like in MD


The real nice part on an real life garden, is you get to eat fresh fruits and vegetables .... all else was to that end


and i will say more so, in real life, i dont go each day talking to my plants ... in fact i dont talk at all to my plants


i just when there was not much rain  for an few days, give an look ... and put water if necessary ... and say for tomato, remove suckers


and when its fruit recolting time, i just go when i want an tomato, take what is red, ... thats all


in conclusion for me an garden is not an look at, talk to plant or smell air .... its do minimun to get good fresh fruits 


for what i see in md its doing foolish things (i,e, not real and for no reasons) and one get nothing for that (except warn to not say same thing each day)


its real not funny or fun for me thinking ...


but some seem to like it ... so more for them


and as for quest ... i participate in one from community garden, i did it like if it was real ... and LOL winner win only because nice drawing ... not in like real gardening

if community garden make quest ... do it as an gardening quest, not an art quest or at least say so in the begining



Edited by Tom Pouce
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