Where is the punishment for Murder?

[Mya Celestia]

I agree that the revival methods available need work.  The guards need to be visible whether you've attacked them before or not, but that's not what this topic is about.

 

In the beginning, I was where Nim is.  Murder is wrong and should be punished.  In my mind it still is wrong in reality.  MD isn't reality.  I would hope everybody here is intelligent enough to separate killing in MD from killing in reality.  Death doesn't have the same meaning in MD.  To try and pose a realm wide punishment for "the use of a tool" isn't done.

 

People can die in many ways--socially, emotionally, physically.  In MD, what is the real impact of death or "murder" as it has been put in this thread?  What is its purpose?

[Mystire]

The actions of you and your people contradict your words. Why make maeb's character regret if this means nothing serious to you? Why the idea of revenge? Its all about intent...

 

No, it's about judging other people's intent, according to standards you accumulated in this world and the situations and circumstances that apply to this reality world. I'm not saying that this is right or this is wrong, or that I don't respect your views or your way of expressing them; it's just that it seems that it is what you are doing here. That's why I used the term 'morality' in my post: because basically that's what you are doing here in this whole issue. As far as I can see, at least on your side, you're trying to get others to believe in your version of right and wrong, because to you it is the only correct right and wrong. That's why you are so frustrated, and why no one else seems to get what you're getting.

 

And don't get me wrong, I am not against you or anything. On the game issue I can see how eventually there are gonna be some rules on murder anyways, and personally I can understand where you come from, especially after clarifying your views briefly in the in-game chat yesterday. And as your adept I am and have been very appreciative of your help, and would never stand against you on something important to you. I am just calling you out on what you are doing/seem to be doing, because I am not sure if you are aware of it, and because it seems to be causing you quite a bit of frustration, both of which seem to be normal for things which are highly personal and close to our heart and which it is difficult to be fully aware of what we are doing without a third-party perspective. And I don't think such a frustration can be resolved, however this issue eventually goes, without this sort of awareness.

[Nimrodel]

No, it's about judging other people's intent, according to standards you accumulated in this world and the situations and circumstances that apply to this reality world. I'm not saying that this is right or this is wrong, or that I don't respect your views or your way of expressing them; it's just that it seems that it is what you are doing here. That's why I used the term 'morality' in my post: because basically that's what you are doing here in this whole issue. As far as I can see, at least on your side, you're trying to get others to believe in your version of right and wrong, because to you it is the only correct right and wrong. That's why you are so frustrated, and why no one else seems to get what you're getting.

And don't get me wrong, I am not against you or anything. On the game issue I can see how eventually there are gonna be some rules on murder anyways, and personally I can understand where you come from, especially after clarifying your views briefly in the in-game chat yesterday. And as your adept I am and have been very appreciative of your help, and would never stand against you on something important to you. I am just calling you out on what you are doing/seem to be doing, because I am not sure if you are aware of it, and because it seems to be causing you quite a bit of frustration, both of which seem to be normal for things which are highly personal and close to our heart and which it is difficult to be fully aware of what we are doing without a third-party perspective. And I don't think such a frustration can be resolved, however this issue eventually goes, without this sort of awareness.

I am presenting an argument. Obviously I'd want to support my views. Which idiot wouldn't? Is it wrong to do that too? Hasn't everyone done the same in the thread? Try to convince me otherwise? One person even called it downright stupid. Weird how i am the villain now. Interesting how 'depletion of resources' was a bigger thing in MD compared to murder.

[Fang Archbane]

Death in real life is punished drastically because, as far as we know, thats it. End game. You took a life.

But here in MD, we dont take anything upon a murder.

Matter of fact, we let you explore without ones normal bodily limits.

That aside, one can always revive.

A choice not available in real life.

[Neno Veliki]

dirty mouth in chat gets u jailed and murder doesnt? and why so hard against jailing? its not like murderer will stay there for life..

[Chewett]

dirty mouth in chat gets u jailed and murder doesnt? and why so hard against jailing? its not like murderer will stay there for life..

Dirty Mouth is not permitted in the rules.

Killing people ingame is permitted by having items and a role to perform it.

Massive difference.

[Nimrodel]

Dirty Mouth is not permitted in the rules.Killing people ingame is permitted by having items and a role to perform it.Massive difference.

Yes of course. Murder in md is quite pg rated. I am sure people of all age groups enjoy hiring other people or using tools to kill other people. ^^

Death in real life is punished drastically because, as far as we know, thats it. End game. You took a life.
But here in MD, we dont take anything upon a murder.
Matter of fact, we let you explore without ones normal bodily limits.
That aside, one can always revive.
A choice not available in real life.

Says he who raised his voice against resource depletion becoz he believed it hurts the land. Hippocrisy at its best.

[Change]

In a game where death is not permanent, stealing becomes the biggest crime. If someone steals your life, you can get another one (although it might be an expensive process). If someone steals your 'Ancient artifact of lores unseen', you have to steal it back, otherwise you lose it forever. If the item stolen from you is an expensive consumable and the thief uses it, you're out of luck.

 

Of course, in real life, the punishment for death wouldn't change. Death is very painful (in lots of cases) and it could scar someone for the rest of their lives. While death is still an illegal act in most places, it doesn't hold the taboo that roleplaying or doing other subjects does. Thus you get the whole issue of murder being more acceptable than swearing, since murder is a part of the game. 

 

While murder is treated lightly in lots of games and rpgs today, I don't necessarily think that's a good thing. We're teaching kids that it's more acceptable to commit murder than it is to be politically incorrect.

 

MD can change this, but only if people are willing. If there are no consequences to murder, the players can make some. Players can agree to not speak to, trade with, sponsor the quests of, etc., of someone who has hired someone to commit murder or has murdered someone themselves. Lands can choose to banish people who commit murder against anyone, or they can choose to banish people who commit murder against certain people.

 

People might cry foul for someone being punished by others because of the role that they chose, but that's just stupid. If you choose to murder someone as a part of your role, others can choose to not talk with murderers as a part of their role. Or, they can choose to worship murderers if they want. It's their choice.

 

The only cases where this fails is when someone doesn't care about trading, socially interacting with people, doing quests, etc. These cases will be rare though, and if it's possible for a player to not care about such punishments, it's equally possible for a character to not care, and people will just have to deal with it.

[Ackshan Bemunah]

Stuck replying from phone, excuse idiotic typisting.

murder in md is not by far the same thing as murder in rl. A few things differ. In rl ANYONE COULD murder anyone, in md you need to aquire tools for this task an getting those tools give you a partial right to use them as you think fit. Second, death is not permanent, even without reviving methods, while in rl there is no reviving and the punishment for murder takes into consideration the permanency of this crime. As i said, there could be any sort of punishments and rules set by the land leaders as they think fit. On a social level they can and should cover any such thing that might be missing or unregulated by md in an official way. From MY perspective, murder is not punishable, because in MD i represent the equivalent of "nature" and in nature, murder happens and nobody punishes you for it "officialy". All punishments for murder are given by representants of the same species. humans punish humans, not other animals, for murder, while in the jungle animals kill with a purpose and nothing "punishes" them for this action. So, murder, in my eyes as the one being officially responsible of md as a contained world, murder is a natural thing to happen, unpunishable by me, and i don't care, or better said i give full freedom to any social structure within md to punish it as they can, if they can.

 

Interesting how halacha makes an exception from this for the ox that repeatedly gores other oxen. Both owner and ox are punished, and most severely. You may not consider your SELF the owner of these soul fragments...

 

Don't try? Lol. I have been trying to bring this thing out since forever. I have even made posts in the thieving post that Mur had suggested. There was no hint given about the fact that talks were going on either. In fact people didnt even respond to my post.
 

I feel your pain. I might even have answers, but the reliance on intuition (and religious/private sources) rises to such absurd levels...

Also, unfortunately, the person who holds the contract for killing doesnt really care about what the MD society thinks. Neither do most of the people who hire him. Otherwise they would've never done it. I wont argue with you. I just put forward a proposal of what I saw as a solution. I was hoping more people would raise their voices against the whole issue. Guess people dont want to do that. I shall try to do what I can.

 

It's interesting, Forum Death Quest gave me a lot of answers I didn't expect in the least. I inadvertently took a model of in-game death, brought it to the forum, and said "try to make this unpleasant"...

And even just the first part of that made council squirm, yet IGD doesn't. Need to think more about the differences.

 

The way I see it, you are justifying murder by the presence of revival spells. I really cant accept it. By your response, you seem to be saying that 'killing' is not a big thing. That the intent to murder is not a big thing because there are revival tools. Did you really intend that feature to be something like that? With all the symbology you give importance to, is this the value death has for you? The only counter to murder in MD is revival?

There is something to be said for crossover impact of calling it death and not "exorcism" or the like.

In the past heat was I believe called xp and that caused fantastical problems on the forum.

So any number of people can be killed because they can be revived back? And killing a person in MD is not as bad as abusing the game to gain insane stats?
 
Death in MD is already a joke. It'll be a bigger joke in times to come. MD is not a platform to make a joke about something like murder and death. I have gained so many values form this game, but seeing people in MD killed on such a regular basis, it's like MD doesnt value life anymore. Now, it's like, "So what if I die? There is always someone to revive me." No wonder Seig's day of fear failed so epicly. From what I remember, at one point, he said that he was trying to make people fear death and its consequences. Obviously people dont fear death in MD. ...
 

Included in connection with my comment about forum death.

[Fang Archbane]

Says he who raised his voice against resource depletion becoz he believed it hurts the land. Hippocrisy at its best.

 

Yes, please judge me on what ive said in the past, why look at who ive become at all, that would be madness, moving forward, who does that???

 

Edit: My point is simple. Killing in MD is meant to be an adventure. Why jail me if i just payed for your mandatory cruise trip around the world?

Edited September 1, 2013 by Fang Archbane

[Jester]

mur·der  (mûrdr)

n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

2. Slang Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.

3. A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock¹.

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders

v.tr.

1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.

2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.

3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.

4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.

5. Slang To defeat decisively; trounce.

 

Death is MD is not unlawful. so definitions n1 and v1 are out. There are no crows as far as I know, so that takes care of n3. Death in MD is just a status effect applied to your account, there is nothing particularly brutal or inhumane about it. Its not the end due to revival and does not destroy an account, so v2-3 is out. n2 and v5 are slang.

 

Therefore, the only murder in MD falls under v4, "To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language."

 

What you've done to the word murder by creating this topic is simply murder.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Jester

[Nimrodel]

mur·der  (mûrdr)

n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

2. Slang Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.

3. A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock¹.

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders

v.tr.

1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.

2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.

3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.

4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.

5. Slang To defeat decisively; trounce.

 

Death is MD is not unlawful. so definitions n1 and v1 are out. There are no crows as far as I know, so that takes care of n3. Death in MD is just a status effect applied to your account, there is nothing particularly brutal or inhumane about it. Its not the end due to revival and does not destroy an account, so v2-3 is out. n2 and v5 are slang.

 

Therefore, the only murder in MD falls under v4, "To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language."

 

What you've done to the word murder by creating this topic is simply murder.

 

The whole point was about inhumanity. Obviously someone like you will miss the point. For you have had no morals. Never had. Never will.

 

Yes, please judge me on what ive said in the past, why look at who ive become at all, that would be madness, moving forward, who does that???

 

Edit: My point is simple. Killing in MD is meant to be an adventure. Why jail me if i just payed for your mandatory cruise trip around the world?

 

Lol. Its past now? We'll see. Killing was meant to be an adventure? Lol. Getting stuck in a place is adventure? You dont seem to have changed much fang.

 

Edit: Mods please close the topic. If anyone has any bright ideas in favour of the topic, please pM me. If you have polite arguments against the idea, i am willing to hear them out as well. If there is a group of brainless monkeys with a dictionary in their hand, they are welcome to pm me  as well. easy to put them up on my ignore list ^_^

Edited September 1, 2013 by Nimrodel

[Burns]

closed by request