Ann. 4816 - Shop changes

[Muratus del Mur]

This post is for discussing the upcomming shop changes.

First of all i am sorry  i will shake the economy severely with this change, i realize that, but gold and silver is too "rigid" right now, it needs to be more fluid. People having coins got them over long periods of time, too long periods to consider coins a usable commodity for everyone except the rich.

Please use this topic for comments on this, or suggestions, but i have to say, unless you reveal a serious flaw in my judgement, this change is set and will become active with the new interface as it will be.

There are other changes that will affect the economy and trading in the new interface, things like making it easier to trade creatures without penalty, and more.

Some things might remain forgotten at this time, like coin rewards hidden in shop or wishshop, please point them out in case you think they are no longer ok and i will consider it.

 

[Aia del Mana]

Other than the changes to the economy, one wonders if other functions of gold shall be altered. In example, one may find that murder-weapons shall have a cheaper activation cost if gold were more readily accessible.

I do realise that that of value presently should find its gold-value doth increase as set by market-forces, but for items which doth have a fixed gold-value as the above, I wonder of folly in alteration in its supply. In example, if there were now a fivefold supply increase, one thinkst that mayhap there should be a fivefold increase in the activation cost.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Aia del Mana

[Ungod]

My opinion:

Gold buyable with credits in shop should remain there

You could also pay some attention to in-game items such as gold bars and the like (and help define thusly the value of coins better)

If coins are made a trading commodity more than it is now, how 'common' will gold be? when we say 'gold' we think of it as valuable since we make an analogy with the real world, so it can't be that common or it will lose all its weight as idea (like having a system with stats such as 1200000000 attack)

 

[Ledah]

I think the real question is why it needs changing? I don't think there is an issue with the currency of a game being rigid and gold/silver is essentially limitless in MD. You have other infinetly flexible currencies in resources etc.

Yes, some people have a large amount of coin but that didn't come from nowhere. It came from supporting the game financially, trading, questing all options available to any player. You already have ways to incentive people spending their coin, in fact you are doing that now but some people will always have more than others.

We also already have numerous secondary currencies - resources, creatures perhaps access to certain tools etc. so what does debasing GC/SC actually accomplish? You will just increase the costs of things to new highs which won't help new players and the older players with a hoard will quickly adjust.

[Ungod]

11 minutes ago, Ledah said:

I think the real question is why it needs changing? I don't think there is an issue with the currency of a game being rigid and gold/silver is essentially limitless in MD

Essentially, Mur is saying that A. hoarding all those coins makes the economy stagnant and he wants it to be fluid and B. a more fluid economy will help new players.

I think I'd like a more fluid economy. Wealth that circulates is empowering everyone, while wealth that accumulates empowers only a few. 

I don't know if you are right or not about it not actually helping new players, because...MD is MD, after all. 

[Ledah]

The economy is stagnant because the broader game is stagnant. Considering the amount of active players, I think it is doing quite well. I'm on mobile so can't check but wouldn't be surprised if it is one of the more active sections on the forum which historically attracted a range of players - auctions are always popular.

Yes wealth flowing is empowering but there will always be people with more wealth, inflating the amount of gold will just inflate the hoard.

If you want a more fluid economy, look to making the secondary currencies such as resources more fluid and reducing barriers to their trade. If I could buy 1 memory stone for 1sc from a stack of stones I would, but stacks are an inviolable gameplay mechanic.

Reducing penalties for transferring creatures for a cost is a great way to make it more fluid, reducing SC in the realm and encouraging trading - perhaps do something similar for stacks. Say I have 10 stones in a stack, let me sacc 1 to Treasury to transfer 1 from the stack rather than the whole thing. 

Those sorts of things would help increase activity and reduce the cost for new players. If you decrease the value of GC/SC you simply increase the amount required helping nobody. Inflation is a real thing, after all.

[Muratus del Mur]

By decreasing the value of coins through increasing their number comes as a direct result of a single thing: i want to give coins as part of shop payments. 

By giving only one coin to the first/smallest amount paid in the shop  it means i must give two+bonus coins to double amount paid, and so on. By giving 1 silver for the lowest payment option, you end up with several coins for those that use the highest payment amount option, and even more for those using subscription as they get a significant bonus.

Its a chain reaction caused by a single change, to give coins along with credit purchase. 

 

I used lowest possible numbers starting at 1 coin. Without this coins seemed more of a achievement than a monetary value, and i didn't feel it was right. The other trading commodities are for barter, not for pay, and inflation is a very real thing, but deflation is too and its equally bad by blocking smaller market actions. 

I cant give a random gold coin to someone for helping me out when testing, if that coin is toooo valuable..and i cant use other resources instead because i am not getting resources in a fair way  i just get them when experimenting with tools so i dont know of their real value, coin is a more accurate measure

[Ledah]

Not sure I see the need to give coins for credit purchase, are the credits not enough? Or is this some way to incentive gifting credits? To get rid fo the 2% stat boosts?

I can understand the point about coins being seen as achievements, to me that adds to their monetary value - you either spent a decent amount unlocking and getting stuff in the shop, whether by supporting the game or grinding free credits or they were a reward for some activity - maybe questing or helping out. I earn my money but I could phrase it as a reward for my acheivements! Maybe I will do so in my CV somehow....

I find it hard to see a clear-cut distinction between barter and pay personally, I suppose they are different but not much functionally? If you are happy to be paid in sand, more power to you.

If you think a GC is too valuable that is fine, give them a SC or three. They do still exist, even if they are a pain to transfer in bulk.

I'm not a fan of the 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' but this has been unchanged for over a decade, was decided by the players (still is) and I've yet to see any evidence it is not 'working'.

[Kaya]

I'm absolutely not fond of the idea of giving coins for payments. Inflation already is a thing in MD, please don't send us into hyperinflation.

It is already possible to convert credits into gold using by rewards at the end of most shop tracks as well as rare drops in the common item table. Making it even easier to print money sounds like a very slippery slope to pay to win, unless the community notices this in time and decides to move away from the coin standard, abandoning them all together in favor of a more stable currency.

[Chewett]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:11 PM, samon said:

I'm absolutely not fond of the idea of giving coins for payments. Inflation already is a thing in MD, please don't send us into hyperinflation.

It is already possible to convert credits into gold using by rewards at the end of most shop tracks as well as rare drops in the common item table. Making it even easier to print money sounds like a very slippery slope to pay to win, unless the community notices this in time and decides to move away from the coin standard, abandoning them all together in favor of a more stable currency.

Was it shape shifter who used credits to amass a very large personal wealth. I remember that. Surely it would have been even easier to do it in the future if this is the case?

Or I wouldn’t want another Sasha who becomes incredibly wealthy via large amounts of credits then back charges them costing us thousands of dollars.

Something to think about at least.

[Muratus del Mur]

8 minutes ago, Chewett said:

Or I wouldn’t want another Sasha who becomes incredibly wealthy via large amounts of credits then back charges them costing us thousands of dollars.

well in situation like that, solution is simple we wipe the account out if does such ugly things to us.

It is possible indeed, that they do this then spread their wealth to others, destabilizing the realm, but thats possible anyhow in many ways, i don't think "fixing" this by preventing such use of credits is a reasonable price to pay for things that might happen just very very rare. In entire md history we where forced to deal with such situations only twice if i remember right, thats better than anything else i heard of