Diposing Yrthilian As King Of Golemus Golemicarum

[Liberty4life]

hmm i see but if war comes to golemus grido would then most likely run away (becoz of some reasons like he did this time) rather than face it

[Burns]

if war came to a land, it would not be the king's task to be in the line of fire, that's what the military ally is there for...

maybe a lot of things would have run smoother if Yrth had not been leader of Guerilla, too...
Kings have a lot of things on their mind, and idk if it is smart to be one's own military advisor :/

[awiiya]

What definition of King are you using?

In England, which is the most classic example of Kings, the King was the military leader, at the back of the army but always fighting. In fact, sometimes entire battles would be settled by a King and his challenger fighting.

So in that sense, Yrthilian did exactly what a King of old times would have done.

If you refer more to the spiritual King (which is what Khalazdad claimed to associate more with, although to be truthful he did lead an army as well), then yes it would have been beneficial to appoint a military leader.

But in my opinion I think Yrthilian did fine as the military leader. He is the leader, and as such controls the most who he attacks and how he attacks them.

But this whole dethroning business... it seems to me in a bitter spirit. People are throwing accusations that Yrthilian overstepped his boundaries. Did he really? Or did everyone just not realize what the title "King" means?

Also, why is Kingship going to a vote? Votes are for appointed leaders of democracy, where everyone's opinion is equal. This should be determined by a fight, because the King is the strongest person in a land, not the one that everybody likes the most. Did everyone like Napoleon? No, he killed lots of people. Then why did he lead? Because if you spoke out, you would end up like the dead people.

True, death means very little in Magic Duel, which is the source of a lot of problems, including this one. If Yrthilian could just kill Grido, rather than exiling him, this whole business would be avoided, and he would be even more of a leader. Unfortunately that is not so.

But in the spirit of the Kingship, and what that means, I think Yrthilian is perfectly in his power. King's powers derive from the Gods, not from his subjects, at least that is the way it was set up in the past. You dare question someone who is appointed by God(s)?

In short, Yrthilian's power should not end because he angered his subjects, and they hold a silly vote. No! It should end when there is a coup, a show of military strength that Yrthilian is NOT the strongest person in the world, and NOT appointed by God.

But I'm not involved in this, so this is only an opinion. I am a member of Golemus now, true, but my pursuits don't change based on Kings.

Awi

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='28 September 2009 - 04:28 AM' timestamp='1254072535' post='42961']
Public opinion is a powerful jury. Here in MD votes will not count as number but as value, so if you plan on doing a voting thing, then you will have to send them to me, with _strong_ reasons, and your personal reputation will count as the vote weight.
[/quote]

[quote name='awiiya' date='01 October 2009 - 06:37 AM' timestamp='1254339422' post='43268']
Also, why is Kingship going to a vote? Votes are for appointed leaders of democracy, where everyone's opinion is equal. This should be determined by a fight, because the King is the strongest person in a land, not the one that everybody likes the most.

True, death means very little in Magic Duel, which is the source of a lot of problems, including this one. If Yrthilian could just kill Grido, rather than exiling him, this whole business would be avoided, and he would be even more of a leader. Unfortunately that is not so.

But in the spirit of the Kingship, and what that means, I think Yrthilian is perfectly in his power. King's powers derive from the Gods, not from his subjects, at least that is the way it was set up in the past. You dare question someone who is appointed by God(s)?

In short, Yrthilian's power should not end because he angered his subjects, and they hold a silly vote. No! It should end when there is a coup, a show of military strength that Yrthilian is NOT the strongest person in the world, and NOT appointed by God.
[/quote]
This vote is serving as the stand in for military action, because as you say death hasn't got that much meaning in the realm.

The vote is essentially the coup. As Mur said, the decision is going to be made based on both our reason AND our reputation.

If the vote had all the strongest members of GG supporting Yrthilian, and twice as many against him, I doubt he would be kicked from rulership as in a war of succession he would easily win. HOWEVER, if it came to that, he'd no longer be a King, but a true Tyrant/Dictator, and I doubt that that is what Yrthilian would want.

Then again, if the strongest member all voted against Yrthilian but the majority was at least or more than twice as many against him, I wouldn't be surprised to see every single one of the people who voted against him kicked from Golemus >.>

Remember what was said when Raven wanted to be King? "If you fail, there will be consequences"... I think this sort of action is would have far more impacting repercussions for failure than Raven's simple election, and the threat from that was Imprisonment.

Think long and hard about what your reason is and who you really support before you vote on this...

-----

Off Topic:
Who keeps voting negatively for Yrthilian's posts? Those last ones were very good, and didn't deserve the negative reputation. Voting purely because you don't like the person is a bit petty, show some maturity.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Kyphis the Bard

[awiiya]

Voting cannot be a surrogate for a coup, by definition. It would be analogous to... trying to decide who the best cook would be based on how many cook books they had read. They are linked, true, but one does not imply the other.

Don't forget that as King Yrthilian has a lot of tricks up his sleeve that do not fall under the military category. Someone might be able to beat him in a normal fight, without any of his influence, but I'd like to see you beat him with all his spells and benefits as King. Is it unfair for him to spells and the like to win? No, they were given to him as King.

In short, a vote is not appropriate, no matter how representative someone may claim it to be. The bottom line is that it is not a true fight, and for that it can be argued for eternity that his disposing was done the wrong way.

Awi

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='awiiya' date='30 September 2009 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1254339422' post='43268']
What definition of King are you using?

In England, which is the most classic example of Kings, the King was the military leader, at the back of the army but always fighting. In fact, sometimes entire battles would be settled by a King and his challenger fighting.

...But this whole dethroning business... it seems to me in a bitter spirit. People are throwing accusations that Yrthilian overstepped his boundaries. Did he really? Or did everyone just not realize what the title "King" means?

...But in the spirit of the Kingship, and what that means, I think Yrthilian is perfectly in his power. King's powers derive from the Gods, not from his subjects, at least that is the way it was set up in the past. You dare question someone who is appointed by God(s)?

In short, Yrthilian's power should not end because he angered his subjects, and they hold a silly vote. No! It should end when there is a coup, a show of military strength that Yrthilian is NOT the strongest person in the world, and NOT appointed by God.

But I'm not involved in this, so this is only an opinion. I am a member of Golemus now, true, but my pursuits don't change based on Kings.[/quote]
I agree with you that a military coup is more appropriate (and realistic, for whatever that means in the context of Fantasy) than a vote in terms of resolving the issue of deposing Yrthilian.

But there is a lot of specious reasoning and what I can only call error in your post. If England provides the "most classic example of Kings", then you of course realize that the doctrine of the divine right of kingship is only about 400 years old in England and has obviously faded in modern times, whereas the tradition of English monarchs is far older. How and why you pass over ancient, Asian concepts such as the Mandate of Heaven, which would admirably support your arguments, though not in a European/Western context, I do not understand.

If Yrthilian is king by the mandate of the gods of MagicDuel, then you, as a member of the Kelle'tha Order, will of course be ready to instruct us who the gods of MagicDuel are... unless you mean Muratus and none other. If you do, then I must answer that Muratus has shown himself to be receptive to popular opinions [u]if[/u] such opinions are well-founded. If you do not, you are merely speculating. We can point to godlike powers who anointed Khalazdad; as an open question to which I honestly do not know the answer, which being or beings anointed Yrthilian?

You use the phrases "what the title 'King' means" and "the spirit of the Kingship" as though there were definitive, unassailable meanings of such things. There are not. The meaning and practice of kingship on Earth has been as diverse as the means of communicating ideas with words. I have reason to think in one culture, the king was a symbolic embodiment of the passage of the year, at the end of which he was ritually killed and his entrails sown into the earth to entreat the gods for an auspicious harvest. Surely neither Yrthilian nor anyone else would want to be such a king. If you mean to talk about the meaning of kingship, I enjoin you to keep to the history of kingship in Magicduel, and not in imaginary places such as "real life".

[b]Edited for grammar/typos[/b]

Edited September 30, 2009 by Tarquinus

[awiiya]

My lack of knowledge on the subject of Kingship throughout the ages prevents me from putting forth a good rebuttal to your well written response.

However, I think what makes you suspect my post of errors the most is that I left out where my reference to the English monarchs stopped, and my reference to a more general idea of a strong leader began. The part that I am referring to the English monarch is in response to the idea that Yrthilian should not be the military leader.

The rest of the post deals more with the idea that the strongest leader is one who is appointed by God(s) and not by people. Yrthilian was not elected by the subjects he rules.

If being a member of the Kelle'Tha order means that I have instantly gained every secret available in the realm and a full understanding of its workings, then I would like my money back. Instead, what it means is that we are researching to gain an idea of the realm, and has nothing to do with whether we have or have not achieved that. No where do we claim to know the Gods of the realm.

While it is true that Muratus del Mur was the practical assigner, the spiritual assigner goes unnamed. Who decided that Yrthilian was fit to rule? It seems that Mur characteristically wouldn't make a judgment based on his ideas alone, and usually relies on the opinions of others when it comes to making leaders. Who told him to make Yrthilian King is a question for Mur alone.

As to the meaning and definition of Kingship, I can only say that it would be generally agreed that a King is someone whose ruling is cemented, and not prone to changing like other positions based on the opinions of those he rules. As Mur has said (but the following are my own words), the King should be stable and long-lasting. A kingship, unlike an Alliance leader, is far less dependent on the mutual trust shared by the ruler and the subjects, and rather on the undeniable ability of the King to rule. Or at least, that is how it should be in my opinion.

Awi

Edit: changed one word.

Edited October 1, 2009 by awiiya

[Tarquinus]

Thank you. That is a workable definition of kingship.

Ironically, we do not, in the main, disagree. I felt it necessary to call you to account for historical references, which I think have little place in MagicDuel, because your voice, whether you realise it or not, is loud and influential. I can see my error in conflating your English-monarchy reference to the rest of your post.

I refer to the KO merely as the pre-eminent researchers and, to my knowledge, the only sanctioned scholars in this realm. I have long wanted to know more about the gods of MagicDuel, and my search has turned a moebius twist on itself, leading me to conclude, as I have in "real life", that there are no gods at all. Referring to your membership in the Order seems like a cheap shot, reading it over, and I apologise.

[Grido]

[quote]As to the meaning and definition of Kingship, I can only say that it would be generally agreed that a King is someone whose [b]ruling is cemented[/b], and not prone to changing like other positions based on the opinions of those he rules. As Mur has said (but the following are my own words), the King should be[b] stable[/b] and long-lasting. A kingship, unlike an Alliance leader, is far less dependent on the mutual trust shared by the ruler and the subjects, and rather on the [b]undeniable ability of the King to rule[/b]. Or at least, that is how it should be in my opinion.[/quote]

I'm just asking, specifically to the bold bits, but you know, any bit, which bit describes the situation yrth is in? There is a large proportion of "his" people objecting to his rule, [s][b]ruling is cemented[/b][/s][b], [/b][s][b]stable[/b][/s], and there are complaints about his abilitie to rule as well, bad decisions etc. [s][b]undeniable ability of the King to rule[/b][/s] So...yeah, how is he a king again?[b]
[/b]

[Pipstickz]

Why don't we stop thinking about Yrth as a king, stop thinking about Grido as the second who got kicked, and start thinking about them both as PEOPLE, just like anyone else? I think it'd really help this out :/

Edited October 1, 2009 by Pipstickz

[awiiya]

[quote name='Grido' date='30 September 2009 - 06:09 PM' timestamp='1254359383' post='43289']
I'm just asking, specifically to the bold bits, but you know, any bit, which bit describes the situation yrth is in? There is a large proportion of "his" people objecting to his rule, [s][b]ruling is cemented[/b][/s][b], [/b][s][b]stable[/b][/s], and there are complaints about his abilitie to rule as well, bad decisions etc. [s][b]undeniable ability of the King to rule[/b][/s] So...yeah, how is he a king again?[b][/b]
[/quote]

You misquote me.

Whether or not he is King is not based on the things I mentioned; rather that he is a King implies those qualities are innate and unquestionable. So, if he is a King, then you cannot question his ability to rule or his stability.

An important distinction: whether or not he is stable and able in this case doesn't matter. Because he is a King, you can't question it. That may seem counter-intuitive, but such is the nature of Kings, or as I define them (my definition is based on what I have observed, not on my own opinions).

And Pip: When was this a matter of people? They are great people, minus the titles, I'm sure. If this were a matter of who is a good or bad person, then the result would be different. So I don't see how your point makes any sense. Yrthilian's status as a person was never called into question, nor was Grido's. Grido isn't asking Yrthilian to be disposed as a person.

Awi

Edited October 1, 2009 by awiiya

[Rendril]

[quote name='Grido' date='01 October 2009 - 03:09 AM' timestamp='1254359383' post='43289']
I'm just asking, specifically to the bold bits, but you know, any bit, which bit describes the situation yrth is in? There is a large proportion of "his" people objecting to his rule, [s][b]ruling is cemented[/b][/s][b], [/b][s][b]stable[/b][/s], and there are complaints about his abilitie to rule as well, bad decisions etc. [s][b]undeniable ability of the King to rule[/b][/s] So...yeah, how is he a king again?[b]
[/b]
[/quote]

It appears to me that this is an in-game issue which you are trying to solve through an out-of-game means.
As Awiiya and Tarquinus have aptly put, I feel you should stage a coup if you intend on dethoning Yrthilian.

Remember, you are holding a public vote (something I doubt a threatened king would allow) through a means by which the king cannot stop you (apart perhaps from arguing back) and just as he cannot affect whether this vote is held, I do not see why this vote would affect his kingship.

If you wish to remove him from power, do so in an appropriate fashion. Incite the denizens of Golemus who are supposedly suffering, convince them that Yrthilian is unfit to rule. Bear down and dethrone him yourself.
(I could be mistaken but I see only 2 people of Golemus showing an inclination to dethrone him, you and Metal Bunny)

Of course, the removal of the crown itself has to be done by Mur but if he bases such a decision on a mere vote, consider the repercussion on the game. It would plain and simply be divine intervention.
From the game's viewpoint: Yrthilian exiles Grido, Grido is unhappy about it *poof* Yrthilian is king no more.
(Perhaps you have been taking in-game action against him but I have no seen or heard such, though admittedly I have not been around much)

This thread asks "Should Yrthrilian be diposed?" thus you get a public opinion on the matter, I fail to see why such a vote should determine whether he remains king.
If the thread is an effort to rally the people against him so be it, but why then the vote?
Do you wish to see how many would stand agaisnt him? I don't think the thread gives an accurate reflection.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Rendril

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='awiiya' date='30 September 2009 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1254366347' post='43311']
And Pip: When was this a matter of people? They are great people, minus the titles, I'm sure. If this were a matter of who is a good or bad person, then the result would be different. So I don't see how your point makes any sense. Yrthilian's status as a person was never called into question, nor was Grido's. Grido isn't asking Yrthilian to be disposed as a person.
[/quote]
Because it brings people like you who bring up definitions of the word, which is not what this is about. This isn't your English king, this is MD.

And to Rendril: Lots of things are based on public opinion in MD. Lifeline's banned accounts (In my opinion, a slightly less blown-up, but bigger issue than this) were decided by vote, new features are decided by vote...Mur wants his players happy and entertained xD

Edited October 1, 2009 by Pipstickz

[awiiya]

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='30 September 2009 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1254367042' post='43318']
Because it brings people like you who bring up definitions of the word, which is not what this is about. This isn't your English king, this is MD.And to Renril: Lots of things are based on public opinion in MD. Lifeline's banned accounts (In my opinion, a slightly less blown-up, but bigger issue than this) were decided by vote, new features are decided by vote...Mur wants his players happy and entertained xD
[/quote]

I couldn't disagree more. Isn't what the definition of King what this is all about? The question is whether Yrthilian is in his rights as King or not. How do we determine that? We define King, and then see if his action fits with the definition. Yes, I agree, it's not my "English king" as you so condescendingly put it. If you were to read on, I didn't use the "English king" as a definition of the MD King, and actually defined what I thought an MD King was, which Grido quoted.

Awi

[Rendril]

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='01 October 2009 - 05:17 AM' timestamp='1254367042' post='43318']
Because it brings people like you who bring up definitions of the word, which is not what this is about. This isn't your English king, this is MD.

And to Renril: Lots of things are based on public opinion in MD. Lifeline's banned accounts (In my opinion, a slightly less blown-up, but bigger issue than this) were decided by vote, new features are decided by vote...Mur wants his players happy and entertained xD
[/quote]

The events differ greatly.
Grido's exile was an RP and in-game matter, Lifeline's alt abuse, and the addition of features, are not RP matterw (although the result of them can affect RP, they themselves are not RP)

[Pipstickz]

My mistake then, I don't read whole posts, usually...unless they're something I think is important enough...which happens to be just about nothing :/

So, why are we debating this anyways? I've read (I think) quite a few times that Mur doesn't go through the forum much, and in the end he has the final decision, does he not?


Oh, and Rendril again: It wasn't entirely RP, as Yrth took some of Grido's spells. Then there's also Khal the White, which COULD be an RP thing, but then he does control the actual account, as far as I know.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Pipstickz

[Rendril]

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='01 October 2009 - 05:29 AM' timestamp='1254367787' post='43326']
Oh, and Rendril again: It wasn't entirely RP, as Yrth took some of Grido's spells. Then there's also Khal the White, which COULD be an RP thing, but then he does control the actual account, as far as I know.
[/quote]

He, as king, stripped his subject of his powers and exiled him. How is this not RP?
I agree, the manipulation of the account is stretching it, but it is being used as a method to resolve an in-game issue, in and in-game fashion.

[Pipstickz]

BUT, from my point of view, RPCs are (should be, whatever) equal. Their roles may decide their position over each other in RP, but one RPC shouldn't be able to say "I don't like what you did, so I'm punishing you by taking your spells/screwing you over in heads contest with heads control/sticking you in a dream when I know you need to be somewhere/etc."

I really can't help it if that's my opinion...and I can see that it's pointless to try and persuade you that mine is the right one, which is may or may not be, but whatever x3

[Rendril]

You are of course entitled to your opinion. I would like to know exactly what powers were removed. I know there was the teleportation to Golemus, which as king (regardless of being and RPC or not) it is understandable for Yrhilian to be able to revoke, but were there other powers taken away?

[Shadowseeker]

I somehow doubt yrthilian is a king as in the definition of being a military leader.

You shouldn't forget, he was a researcher first, and in terms of combative ability I am rather sure he's not amongst the first 2..3rd is negotiative, because of the powers given.

And the issue with a mandate of kingship is..if nobody accepts it, or so little that it has no use in the lands, then it's no real reign, even if he has power. And currently it seems to me that there is little public support from golemians for him.

[cryxus]

Y'know what? I have decided... if the people truly want yrth dethroned, then I feel I will run for canidacy... I'm tired of waiting for my role in this world to come to me, and I will step forth and put myself front and center.

If Yrth gets deposed as king then I wish to run in any forthcoming election.

Yes, that's right... but know that if such events were to happen I would make Yrth, as well as Grido my advisors. As far as MB is concerned, he is as faithful to GG as anyone, so I feel he should hold a place of power as well, just what position he wishes to play is up to him, should and if i were elected.

Many people do not agree with what has happened... and while that is their opinion I must respect that, and I must stick by my land. I have always been for GG and will always stand for the betterment of GG, ALWAYS!

If this means I must give up my faction, well that is unfortunate, but I have waited for months now, and still here I sit, so if Yrth get deposed as king I plan to step forth into the canidacy. If I still get to run such a faction, then excellent, it's something I've desired for some time now, but I wish to benefit all of GG, and I cannot wait for something to fall on me, I must seize what is presented before me, and make the best of any situation, as a pirate I see little other recourse.

I do not, however, wish to be called a king, should yrth get deposed, I do not wish such a title, rather I would prefer Lordship over GG... looking for it's best interests, and not ruling with an iron fist, but rather one who consults his people and acts accordingly. I am not saying Yrth was ever wrong, because in my eyes he wasnt, nor was Grido, in fact they are perhaps the two that know GG best.

Also note that I have no intention of leading the GG military alliance, it was never my place before, and is not my place now. Rather I shall take such a leader's advice to heart if nothing else. I wish to see GG enter a new era, hopefully one in which all prosper, and none feel as though they are opressed.


~Captain Cryxus X'hal

[Udgard]

Just my 2 MDS.

I do not think yrthilian is tepping over the boundaries of his power at all. All that he has done is well within the limit of his authority. What I see is that the current call for diposition is not due to yrth went beyond his authority, but because there are people who deem his action to be incorrect and not serving the best interest of the land. Doing something within the limit of one's power doesn't make that action correct; the incorrectness of his action as viewed by the people asking for his dethroning is the reason of this topic.

The closest thing to omnipotent being in MD is undeniably Mur, and he was the one who anointed yrth. If people wish to dethrone someone appointed by 'god', sending a petition to him is the most suitable course of action I can think of right now. In real life, people would contact their God via prayer, instead here we can get in touch with 'god' via PM and a forum topic.

Edit: fixeed typo

Edited October 1, 2009 by Udgard

[Lifeline]

all i see here is a contest for populatrity. both sides have commited war crimes if u can call their action that way. yrth teared apart khals soul but why is he the only one who gets the blame? i dont see why peace should appear in a better light. since some time she speaks only about revenge as well. this whole thing is stupid there are just as many good reasons to dispose her of her status as well if u hold yrth actions against him.
a war starts fine, yrth and lib decide to take the first step which always makes them appear as bad to the public. the one who started the war is always screwed one especially if he looses. its a war its for several reasons and dont think u know all of their reasons for the war. so dont judge on the war itself because most of u dont know how much played into the war and how many things triggered it.
so whats left? yrth tearing apart khals soul which yes is an offense to the whole khal dynasty.
on the other side u have peace taking over the gg alliance and kicking 30 members. that is an offense to 30 members just as the burning of the soul to the "friends" of khals dynasty. and considering that more bad actions with wodin were involved i really cant say anymore what is worse: destroying a soul of somebody who had nothing to do with the war or kicking many members of an alliance that had nothing to do with the war as well and messing with an account that doesnt belong to u but did long ago to a real player.
we got 2 offenses here and who is the one left speaking of even more revenge? its peace. she seeks even more revenge and u say yrth is consumed?
i really dont get why all the blame falls on yrth. if yrth gets disposed as a king here then peace should be removed of her status as well.

and now something different. u think yrth did a bad job running GG? tell me where!
because i can tell u many reasons for necro being run badly. a group of adventures and explorers sneak into the heart of necrovion. they stay there for days and plan how to steal something from the core. then they even slaughter shades and pilage the stone stealing from it and using the stolen item for their own purpose. that was a serious offense to necrovion as a land. they defied the shade sentinel and defeated the summoned army and what are the sentinels under peace reign doing? nothing. nothing at all they let their land being pillaged and do nothing about that. necrovion was a pushover at that time. ppl just trampled over the land and stole from its most "sacred" treasure and get away without the dynasty or the sentinels or anybody doing anything about it.
in contrast to that yrth run his land really good. something like that never happened to golemus. i dont see where yrth failed. in my opinion he did a good job. of course there were war crimes but if u want to punish those then punish both sides.

[Muratus del Mur]

I am planing to use this situation to implement a ingame voting system that will be similar with the forum but will cont the score based on your reputation and will also be something to hold as evidence for MD history over time.

The player reputation will be eventualy calculated automaticaly but for now i will be the one rating each vote with a value based on who i know you are and the reasons you gave. So the more important/old/influent you are for the realm the more powerfull your vote is. The more good reasons you give, with good logic, proof, etc, the more powerfull the vote. Reputation and reason will count PROBABLY equally, but i am not sure right now.

Please be prepared to write your reasons and opinion in a clear form within that voting system, even if you posted it allready here on forum.

In case I don't manage to finish that voting system in time, i will use your opinions here on this topic for a decision.

[Udgard]

[quote name='Lifeline' date='01 October 2009 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1254387326' post='43390']
all i see here is a contest for populatrity. both sides have commited war crimes if u can call their action that way. yrth teared apart khals soul but why is he the only one who gets the blame? i dont see why peace should appear in a better light. since some time she speaks only about revenge as well. this whole thing is stupid there are just as many good reasons to dispose her of her status as well if u hold yrth actions against him.
a war starts fine, yrth and lib decide to take the first step which always makes them appear as bad to the public. the one who started the war is always screwed one especially if he looses. its a war its for several reasons and dont think u know all of their reasons for the war. so dont judge on the war itself because most of u dont know how much played into the war and how many things triggered it.
so whats left? yrth tearing apart khals soul which yes is an offense to the whole khal dynasty.
on the other side u have peace taking over the gg alliance and kicking 30 members. that is an offense to 30 members just as the burning of the soul to the "friends" of khals dynasty. and considering that more bad actions with wodin were involved i really cant say anymore what is worse: destroying a soul of somebody who had nothing to do with the war or kicking many members of an alliance that had nothing to do with the war as well and messing with an account that doesnt belong to u but did long ago to a real player.
we got 2 offenses here and who is the one left speaking of even more revenge? its peace. she seeks even more revenge and u say yrth is consumed?
i really dont get why all the blame falls on yrth. if yrth gets disposed as a king here then peace should be removed of her status as well.

and now something different. u think yrth did a bad job running GG? tell me where!
because i can tell u many reasons for necro being run badly. a group of adventures and explorers sneak into the heart of necrovion. they stay there for days and plan how to steal something from the core. then they even slaughter shades and pilage the stone stealing from it and using the stolen item for their own purpose. that was a serious offense to necrovion as a land. they defied the shade sentinel and defeated the summoned army and what are the sentinels under peace reign doing? nothing. nothing at all they let their land being pillaged and do nothing about that. necrovion was a pushover at that time. ppl just trampled over the land and stole from its most "sacred" treasure and get away without the dynasty or the sentinels or anybody doing anything about it.
in contrast to that yrth run his land really good. something like that never happened to golemus. i dont see where yrth failed. in my opinion he did a good job. of course there were war crimes but if u want to punish those then punish both sides.
[/quote]

A good point brought up. I will try to share my opinions on this. (note this post is not directed to lifeline in particular, I'm just sharing my thoughts on things that he brought up)

First of all, Peace's actions of kicking the members of guerillas were not something that her fellow necrovians seem to despise. She also said that she would return the alliance, just not to yrthilian. My guess, that means that most of the 30 people that were kicked will get their ally back. (so it's not really offense against 30 people in the end, as they will get their ally back)
What yrthilian did, apparently is something that some of his fellow golemians despise (at least two people are clearly against this, one the second in command, the other a very old and respected member of the alliance). And when he burned Khal's soul, it's a slim chance that there is any going back. Offence against all Khal's family and friends is seemingly irreversible.

And perhaps peoples' questioning of yrthilian's ability to judge things and act correctly has been doubted since the last war with Loreroot?
[quote]So i have decided to declar WAR on [b]Loreroot[/b].

I have many reasions for this and i will not list them all.
But i intend to attack [b]LR lands [/b]soon and am declaring it here and now

ANY who back the [b]LR land [/b]will also be atacked[/quote]

With the reason:
[quote]My aim is to remove the current leader[/quote]

A misguided war against a whole Land caused by dislike towards 1 person, to which some protest has been made.

[quote]Wanting to remove Raven from leadership is NOT a reason to wage war against ALL of Loreroot. Attacking Loreroot means attacking all its citizens, and even those who do not want war WILL defend Loreroot, because you are attacking our homeland. If you have something against an individual, don't take it out on the mass. I do not want war, but if you are attacking my HOMELAND, I will defend it, and so will everyone in Loreroot.[/quote]

And never answered to.

Okay, that one's just my rant. But that thing forever changed my view on yrth's ability to judge things clearly and act correctly. I still consider him a friend, but when other people started questioning whether he is fit as king or not, I am really not surprised.





...just my rant.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Udgard