The Principle of cyclicity

[Muratus del Mur]

Each event could either take part having a certain shape, having its own cycle, repeating itself after time, or could either be part of another superiour event that has its own cycle.

Events like daily routine, or the changing of the seasons, or the shifting of the planet's Poles, or even the world itself are all cyclic events. Symbolic, all events occur on the shape of a circle, two opposites intertwining, just like a snake, bitting its own tail.

The cycles actualy represent a Balance either between the consumption of energy and its (re)generation, ither between different evolutionary steps.

In the Principle Ierarchy, this Principle reigns over others, but is also iferior to some, making it very difficult to precisely reveal its importance. It exists in absolutely in every event that could have an opposite, for its role is that of creating and maintaining the Balance. Due to its repetitive nature, it can cover very long periods of time, or can even part from existance, due to the fact that the Principle can apply to that too, for even existance has an opposite, even if it is abstract and hard to understand.

The Principle takes many shapes. For example, a simple thing like cutting a thing in equal halves, and then halving those, and so on to infinity, even if it doesn't look like it, applies to this Principle. Also, the perpetuation of a species, through never-ending cycles of deaths and births, or even in the evolution of science, that at one point causes tis own downfall are cycles of the same Principle. In a battle, the Principle occurs when defence follows the attack, or when a series of attacks are released in order to weaken the adversary.

Many forms of consuption or energy reloading can happen in only one cycle. But if one action(cycle) is modiffied in such a way in which it could cover more cycles, the result would be collosal in energy.

[Actraiser]

All-in-all I am finding the descriptions of many of the principals difficult to fully comprehend. If I had a few examples to go with I may be a bit more clear on the possible applications.

This one sounds to me like this principal has the possibility to allow you to negate certain events, or by-pass them completely. Or it may allow you to "add" some event that didn't actually occur.

Too many abstracts...

[Muratus del Mur]

well, the principles were not added for the game ...the game was added for the principles and other similar stuff ...its dificult to explain.

To comprehend them fully is last of my concern ..whoever gets the ideea behind them fin, the rest just enjoy the action.

I wont add something as a short description to them so that players know better what to choose, i want them to be curious until the end like this they will try at least to read them if not to understand.

I don't know what to say about cyclicity , you see it allover yourself, life is cyclic, earth is, etc....and related to the game, it will for sure have a conection with the regeneration interval and things that repeat.

Tehnicaly its difficult to do all this in a web based game so i realy dont know how much i will be able to create in the game from all i want

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[Deetn]

thats some deep words

its great like everything you have put in the game but some of the less smarter players, no offense, will not really understand

you have some really good text there but it is all a bit too much if you ask me

I think that's what he aimed for since manu likes to tease

[Muratus del Mur]

its all there for those who read it, not for the rest, for the rest i will make some nice icons to click on.

Its funny how you don't have to hide stuff at all ... people who are not supposed to will just not understand it ... you dont have to hide anything or put it in different stories, movies and such, the plain thing sounds like a story itself and only some will get it for what it realy is..... it was funny when i first realised that and sad later when i understood how fake the world we live in can be ... so many "less smarter players" out there

nevermind, i am starting to get emotional here lol

P.S.: i am not saying people that dont have a clue what the principles text say are stupid or anything, not at all, just that they are...lets say, not made for this stuff

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[Argoth]

this principle says that history is doomed to repeat itself. in which case:

If history is doomed to repeat itself, bring on the beheadings!

[omegaweapon]

so if u know the principle what u can do?

changing its cycle?

or it only tell u what it is and u can change something with other principles?

in this way this principle give u great knowladge about most of thing (beacuse most thing have cycle) but it dont give u any power to do something

beacuse of this sentense :

In the Principle Ierarchy, this Principle reigns over others, but is also iferior to some, making it very difficult to precisely reveal its importance]

i think the secound though is more suitable

[Garr]

While I appreciate the poetic and philosophic aspects of these texts, I have to say I think it's really poor game design to have something in the TUTORIAL portion of the game that new players might not understand and that new players are basically stabbing in the dark at their choices.

It makes the player feel like they're not in control of the game they're trying to play FOR FUN.

I don't know. I'm torn here, because I enjoyed the portions of text that I read, but what's the point of them if they don't really relate to game play? Why make the player choose if they have no meaning? I'm only two days into the game, so perhaps I'll discover it later.

[Muratus del Mur]

its to filter out people that feel there is "something about it" from people that dont give a shit and just get confused. ...for now...

there are parts in this game explained like for realy realy idiot people and still some find it dificult to understand them, ...like clicking the damn scroll in the papercabin...its ANIMATED and its the only thing you can click on, but still some dont get it,....and there are some things that are realy dificult and confusing and put your brain to work...and still there are a lot of people that find their way in all that.

Maybe, later in beta/final i'll add a BIG red button called "SPOILER" or something, that will make things much more easy to follow so that i can keep in the game about 20% more of the players that try it, but for now i am realy happy with the 20% of the players that realy try hard and have the patience to follow it all and still find it interesting.

These are complex things ...to make them easyer to folow will ruin a lot of their meaning and i dont want that. Who will even try to understand tham if there will be plain indicators like "principle of light will give you more clues in the puzzles (fictive)" ...principles are principles for now, nothing more, choose them like you feel best, all of them are powerfull in their own way. If you fully understand any of them you could thing that its the most powerfull but the thing is that these principles govern so many things that they are all powerfull. How they will be implemented in the game its an other story ...for now its just the philosophy

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[omegaweapon]

em sorry so what do u think about this message i need to know if i understand them correctly or not

so if u know the principle what u can do?

changing its cycle?

or it only tell u what it is and u can change something with other principles?

in this way this principle give u great knowladge about most of thing (beacuse most thing have cycle) but it dont give u any power to do something

beacuse of this sentense :

In the Principle Ierarchy, this Principle reigns over others, but is also iferior to some, making it very difficult to precisely reveal its importance]

i think the secound though is more suitable

[Garr]

I have to say that's a pretty elitist view, and doesn't seem likely to foster a large community. I've received a bit of advice from one player and I appreciated his help, but I still feel like I'm wandering around aimlessly, and I'm no idiot.

I've been a programmer for over 15 years and a gamer for 20 and recently started designing games six months ago. Everything I've read and learned from developer networks says that anyone should be able to play and figure out your starting portions of the game, then smart and dedicated players are rewarded by figuring out the more complex parts.

All I've been able to figure out so far is that I need to fight a whole bunch and wait 24 hours and lose a whole bunch but I've been playing for nearly a week now and I can't see any progress. It makes you want to lose interest in the game.

Regardless, I admire the work that has been done and I think this would be a great game if the learning curve and early character progression were not so steep. Just my opinion, though. There are obviously a handful of people who "get it" and enjoy it. I'm about fed up, though.

[Root]

I know this topic is dead, but whatever.

All I've been able to figure out so far is that I need to fight a whole bunch and wait 24 hours and lose a whole bunch but I've been playing for nearly a week now and I can't see any progress. It makes you want to lose interest in the game.

No one forces you to wait 24H untill you make your next move, you could choose an option that will make you wait less time or no time at all, but then your reward would be lower as you know.

LoL and btw, Element + Cyclicity + Time = Life? it kind of makes some sense if you think a little about it >.<

PS: I don't know if back then when the topic was still active you were forced to wait 24H , if you were than I'm sorry, but otherwise you got no reason to complain about it.

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[Root]

Then he has no reason to complain about the 24H option -.-

[apophys]

RE: Element + Cyclicity + Time = Life

add Transposition and you get Toy Story, Night of the Living Dead, as well as fast self-healing or even immortality.

Then just add Imagination and you have custom creatures.

Unrelated, Light + Darkness + Cyclicity = cyclic transfer of energy, an energy link.

Transpose part of it into an object and you have a Horcrux. You cannot die while it exists unharmed. Then turn another player into a Horcrux and your lives are intertwined.

[HHD]

lol i dont think life is a cycle

maybe the cycle in your life is called a "routine"

if life was a cycle you would die, rise, die again, rise again, die again, and then rise again etc

since this principle is cyclicity when we talk about it we SHOULD talking in a circle starting from where the cycle starts(catch the glitch, there is no start or end in a cycle) to where the cycle repeats itself which will make this thread the longest thread looooll

[Lulu]

lol i dont think life is a cycle

maybe the cycle in your life is called a "routine"

if life was a cycle you would die, rise, die again, rise again, die again, and then rise again etc

since this principle is cyclicity when we talk about it we SHOULD talking in a circle starting from where the cycle starts(catch the glitch, there is no start or end in a cycle) to where the cycle repeats itself which will make this thread the longest thread looooll

Well, I thought life was a cycle like: live -> die (decay) -> be part of new living organism (live).

Right?

Though if we get into the rearranging molecules thing, then it's more like a continuous thing rather than a cycle, eh. . . I don't know about these things anyway. >_>;

[Ren]

Life can certainly be a cycle. Just as precipitation and pooling and evaporation, creatures are born, they live, they die, they decompose, and then fertilize something else which is born, it lives, it dies, etc etc etc. the natural world is very much in balance with itself.

[Grido]

if you look at life from a bhudists(?) perspective then life is cycliar this way as well: born in a body > live > die > born into another body...etc

[HHD]

Being asian, i was explained the buddhist religion(which i dont believe in), they just say that when you die, if you ate meat you will turn into the animal you ate most meat of, like if i ate beef all the time when i am still alive i will turn into a cow, but if i only eat vegetables i will remain human in my next life. So now you have a cycle, but this is actually pretty weird cause they say when you die you jump into a pool of blood and that washes your memories away, then you are "born again", but then arent you just a new life and not the old life? Since you dont have the memories its just like your first life :\

[Ren]

it being just like your first life makes it that much more exact as a cycle. the beginning is the end.

and the end is the beginning

[Sacosphilz]

In my opinion, nothing is a truly repeating cycle, because no iteration is really identical to the next. When a 'cycle' repeats itself, not everything stays the same. Places may change, characters may change, other circumstances may change, temporal location most certainly changes, but there must be some things in a chain of reoccurring events which do not differ. Even if an object repeats its movement in the same pattern (e.g. a circle) for all eternity, each iteration is still different because it happens at a different time from others. The spatial movement trail may be a perfect circle for all we care, but if we include the temporal axis, the trail of movement appears as a spiral. On the other hand, if we take any chain of repeating events and exclude the non-cyclic patterns from our planes of observation, the chain can also be seen as cycles, though not as 'rich' as chains with less non-cyclic elements.

Since no 'perfect cycles' exist, I don't think the Principle of Cyclicity only refers to such cycles. Anything which appears as repeating events with consistent elements through multiple iterations can be considered a 'cycle'. Life is, under this point of view, most certainly a cycle, because it keeps repeating itself between states of Life and Death, but with different elements, times and places. Sometimes the physical elements of life regroups into another life, making the cycles seem more connected. The concept of reincarnation also speaks of a more connected kind of cycles of life where the souls stay intact through episodes of lives. Depending on what you believe in, you might see the cycles of life with more or less persisting elements than the next person, but it is definitely a cycle.

Cycles are powerful because they have a tendency to repeat themselves, though I would not argue whether they repeat because their cyclic nature is the cause or because external retaining forces have always been at work. Since no cycles are self-perfect, each iteration always gives off a positive or negative byproduct to its surroundings. Thus the Principle of Cyclicity is, in my opinion, about understanding the nature of cycles in general and each cycle in our perceived universe, including their effects on the universe, how they might be maintained, reinforced, exploited, empowered, diminished or broken.

</random rant>