Md Is Boring

[Fenrir Greycloth]

This is a continuation of the MD is dead topic so that it can remain on topic.


MD is Boring.

Others think it, I said it. Now lets look at the biggest problem with why MD is now Boring.

First: GGG

The GGG is ruining MD. People sit there all day long and farm 0 damage wins. Wins are supposed won. Not given. Stats are not to be given so freely either.

After dst's post stating what is really wrong with MD, it opened my eyes. I have come to realise that the GGG is bad for our community.

So I ask, is it a good idea to get rid of the GGG in order to bring back the original style of training by attacking others with real rituals?

If you disagree, or agree, please post why.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Fenrir Greycloth

[Pipstickz]

People will always want things easier. I highly doubt just by creating a topic that you can really change anything, just like with your topic about dst.

So, rather than talking about it, why don't you actually do something? Mur isn't going to help you with this, if he's going to keep with his "community organizations will be run by the community" stuff. So do something.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

I am planning on doing something, but I need to see whether or not it would be supported. And why those who don't support it, don't support it.

Their responses will help me decide the course of action to take.

[Yoshi]

You know, people say it's good, but I personally don't see what's so good about it. It teaches people nothing but setting one type of ritual and that's it. It doesn't require knowledge of really anything but reading if a crit does damage or not. There's no challenge, nothing that gets your heart pumping. That's where the dullness is coming in. There's no excitement when your just sitting there with the same rits or rit type and knowing what to expect (for the most part) when attacking others there. I for one think that the GGG shouldn't be completely demolished, but rather just less used. Now, I don't think you can ever completely demolish it because anyone could start up another one somewhere else, and it's decent if you want to get wins for a certain crit but if you just sit there stat grinding all day just to get higher stats, what's the point? What are you bringing to the MD Realm by doing that? The negative is that you are making it so that others will have to statgrind aswell just to get their stats high enough to even stand a remote chance of survival when outside of the GGG, which rarely happens when people are statgrinding. So instead of trying to demolish it, give people a reason to leave/have no use for it anymore.

[Chewett]

GGG is an intresting place, and for it to get to the point where people are saying its the reason MD is failing means its done pretty well.

Some people use it to farm wins for their angiens, Some use it for the stats, and some just use it for some easy wins to get them out of Skill Damage.

Because it is so useful i can defaintely see it being "reset" somewhere else if Mur one day decided that it wasnt allowed because its useful for people to sit there gaining tons of wins and a few stats.

Unless there was a way to redirect the traffic somewhere so that it would be both fun and easy to find someone you can have a GOOD fight with, Then places like this will grow. I walk around MD looking for someone i can kill, And only find the Statgrinders at GOE who will 0-round kill me, and anyone else who idles outside on par with those stat grinders.

There is no way i can kill someone who is outside a Sanct in normal MD because they are the ones who have spent years and millions on the MD shop to get them every token possible.

So unless you find a way to make people stay outside sanctuaries or make it so i can fight poeple that are on par with me, There is no way that the GGG and places like it will go away. Because people want to be able to train without losing all their vit in one battle.

[ladytwin]

the GGG is a great place to get some advantence for your creatures and if you roleplay there it is a fun place too i alwys roleplay when i am there and most others do also

it is how you act and play that makes this place and the whole of md great *giggles* so i voted no

[Firsanthalas]

You know what lets go ahead and remove GGG. Lets continue to remove every single thing that anyone sets up in MD because a few people have an issue with it.
Actually, lets just go ahead and remove MD altogether. There's obviously not enough people for a certain few to pound on, so lets remove it so they can go elsewhere and do that. ANd lets face it, RP is rubbish and anyone that even attempts to RP is a waste of space and they should obviously spend there time wandering around with giant bullseyes on their backs. Infact, before we do that lets set those people's stats to 1 billion in everything so that they can feel good about themsleves for 5 seconds.
I'm sick to death of listening to crap from people who like to whine and have issues with everything and everyone in MD. DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE AND STOP JUST PUTTING THINGS AND PEOPLE DOWN!

NOTE: If you have a severe inability to comprehend sarcasm delete this posting from your mind. It does not do what it says on the tin.

[Master]

I would agree with you Fen ONLY if the game was a MMORPG !
Unfortunatly the game is only a MORPG ! Thus making it very hard for many players to meet the requirements of some creatures ! Thus GGG being an EXTREMLLY useful place !

Untill the game has something like AT LEAST 1000 online player in the same time , the GGG is needed !

[phantasm]

I agree the GGG was a good place set up by the MRs. The ONLY issue I can see with this is the increase in the past couple months of mp3s and mp4 who should be out enjoying the actual battles instead of mindless training at the GGG. The whole purpose of the GGG, in my opinion, was created to help the MP5s. Many of the older MP5s out there are close to or at skill loss. With the DSTs, Burns, Dayredeemer, Observer, etc. who run around attacking anything they see without mercy, the GGG gives people a safe place to train. Is it wrong for them to attack everything in sight? Of course not, they are as free to do as they like as anyone else. It does however make those with huge loss numbers hide in the GGG and in sanctuaries in fear of skill damage. Add to that the HC when it becomes a free for all of losses, and you get what you have currently.

Burns is somewhat an exception because every once in a blue moon he will put up defenses that are beatable. For the most part these "monster" fighters have impossible defenses and offenses for the general MP5/alliance population. Add to that the fact that it's near impossible for MP5s to gain honest victories I see the GGG as a safehaven for the "weaker" MP5s to try and work on stats, and creatures in hopes of one day being able to defend against 6 drachorns with full tokens barraging them every available chance.

For the most part the GGG does not give victories, so it's not like people are climbing out of the -500, -800, -1200 losses they are down. So again I say, the GGG is a great place for the MP5s. I think more the issue is the MP3 who stays an MP3 for 6 months, trains creatures to max, and obliterates all new players who come in to the point they can't help but wonder if the whole game will be this kind of ruthless attacking. The saddest part is they usually come to find out that it is, unless they spend lots of money in the MD shop and time at the GGG like some *cough* MP3s are doing.

[Observer]

[quote name='phantasm' date='19 February 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1266583255' post='54756']
I agree the GGG was a good place set up by the MRs. The ONLY issue I can see with this is the increase in the past couple months of mp3s and mp4 who should be out enjoying the actual battles instead of mindless training at the GGG. The whole purpose of the GGG, in my opinion, was created to help the MP5s. Many of the older MP5s out there are close to or at skill loss. [color="#FF0000"]With the DSTs, Burns, Dayredeemer, Observer, etc. who run around attacking[/color] anything they see without mercy, the GGG gives people a safe place to train. Is it wrong for them to attack everything in sight? Of course not, they are as [color="#FF0000"]free to do as they like as anyone else.[/color] It does however make those with huge loss numbers hide in the [color="#FF0000"]GGG and in sanctuaries[/color] in fear of skill damage. Add to that the HC when it becomes a free for all of losses, and you get what you have currently.

Burns is somewhat an exception because [color="#FF0000"]every once in a blue moon[/color] he will put up defenses that are beatable. For the most part these "monster" fighters have impossible defenses and offenses for the general MP5/alliance population. Add to that the fact that it's near impossible for MP5s to gain honest victories I see the GGG as a safehaven for the "weaker" MP5s to try and work on stats, and creatures in hopes of one day being able to defend against 6 drachorns with full tokens barraging them [color="#FF0000"]every available chance[/color].

For the most part the GGG does not give victories, so it's not like people are climbing out of the [color="#FF0000"]-500, -800, -1200 losses they are down.[/color] So again I say, the GGG is a great place for the MP5s. I think more the issue is the MP3 who stays an MP3 for 6 months, trains creatures to max, and obliterates all new players who come in to the point they can't help but wonder if the whole game will be this kind of ruthless attacking. The saddest part is they usually come to find out that it is, unless they spend lots of money in the MD shop and time at the GGG like some *cough* MP3s are doing.
[/quote]

Let me just start of by saying I'm rarely one to attack "weaker" players. Actually, I'm rarely one to be online these days. You happen to be unlucky enough to have annoyed me enough for me to derive pleasure from destroying your defence. Also, I don't see dayredeemer running all over the place... Or burns... Or dst even...

Then you go on to say that we are free to do as we like... I wonder how you'd feel if we did what we "like" at the GGG.

The next part I've highlighted is "GGG and sanctuaries" appearantly GGG is viewed as a sanctuary. Do you find it odd there's no one you can beat out (or have a good fight with) if they all hide away?

The following point: Have you even tried attacking burns in the past month? I don't think he's had anything up you wouldn't actually have to know some game mechanics to lose against... As a sidenote there I might just add there's a no token (only 1 rust) defence up on me (observer) I haven't received incommings in days so I just throught I'd say.

-500 to -1200 losses... You know why they have those? To actually get some stats from no exp fights. Most of those do know what they're doing and are purposefully keeping their ballance low and could easily get it up(Treehill excepted...)

All in all, I say you should get your facts straight

[Orlando Gardiner]

I find MD a bit boring lately, but that is all because of myself. The game is as much fun as you put in yoursel,f if you don't really play, than it is no fun,. you have to put in new energy, new toughts and new things and ways to keep it intresting, Can whait a long time if you wish for someone else to do it for you.




And GGG is unlikely to dissapear. trough three main reasons:

- it almost the only place (except for sanctuaries) to find people without being ripped, almost the most sociable place in whole md.

- people will always want easy wins and being better the easy way, as chewett already said. Close GGG, and people will find eachother elsewhere and restart a new form of easy grinding.

- And this perhaps is the most important part, it's because they are letten be. I mean, is there actually a punishment for NOT following the rules in GGG? Everyone agreed, that's right. but if you do not agree, why bother ?f you should just attack everyone a few weeks in a row and make it impossible to actually .., well do the GGG thing and if you keep harassing such places it will vanish.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Orlando Gardiner

[Malaikat Maut]

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='19 February 2010 - 08:19 AM' timestamp='1266585596' post='54761']
GGG is unlikely to dissapear. trough three main reasons:

- it almost the only place (except for sanctuaries) to find people without being ripped, almost the most sociable place in whole md.[/quote]
If those players were dispersed, they would find other places to gather, and perhaps places more conducive to constructive game play.


[quote]- people will always want easy wins and being better the easy way, as chewett already said. Close GGG, and people will find eachother elsewhere and restart a new form of easy grinding.[/quote]
As painful as it may be, I believe the only remedy for a great deal of current issues is to implement a stat cap which scales with mind power. It would promote balance and set exciting and attainable goals (as opposed to being overwhelming) for new players. There are few games with open ended stats and abilities and for good reason.

[Burns]

Arrh, I love it when people say my name and 'exception' in one sentence^^

My defence is not beatable, it's selfbeating, if you just sit and stare, you'll still get a win off it, with a bit of extra-effort, even a victory... and my attacks are set to not give losses, and they suceed in that, at all times </advertising>

I'm reading Chewie and phan there...
Chewie, beatbale mp5 are at every corner, specially for someone as off-balance as yourself, I'll just name Blackwood Forest, Lupus, Shantu, Intrigue, Ivorak, ladytwin (though she's not that weak anymore since she got lucky with principle-drain), Grawur, hogar, Funny Farmer and sasha lilias, and if i took another look at my recent battle-logs, i'd probably find two or three more.
All of those, except for Lupus and Intrigue, drop by at GoE every now and then to get another victory off me, some even every 30 minutes, they are there, period.
They won't wait for you to come and kill them as the targets in GGG do, but they _are there_.
Saying that you can't find anybody to beat and therefore stay in the globe at all times is a self-fulfilling prophecy par excellence.

Phan, you know as well as me that it's a blatant lie. No Globe in the world, not even in billions of years to come, can give you a realistic chance against a fighter. Unlike Globers, we get luck and init. Your *cough* good *cough* attack and defence stats are in vain against a fighter who cancels half your effects and kills half your crits by being faster than them. At some day, grinders might outstat my attack and defence, but by that time, my combat will be alltogether independent from attack and defence (it basically already is). And win against token drachs with just immense attack and def? Don't lie into your own pockets, bro...

I voted yes because i think it can be done better, but if you want to keep it, fine, i have no problems with that either... Just keep in mind that each day you spend there is a day in which GoE-fighters get relativly stronger. It's a great place for players with weak stats to raise lowlevel creatures, like grasans and knats and eles and angiens, but the training it offers is incomparably worse than the one offered outside of it.

[Shadowseeker]

Also for a comparison: There was a relatively long time of 2 months? (or so, don't remember for sure) where I just had a plain old tree on me. Surprise: I think I can count the total of attacks against me with my fingers, and most of them were AFTER I told people I have a tree.

Kind of discouraging. because the fighting has reached a status where people will not attack you, simply because they know you can beat the cr** out of them.

And..sitting at the GGG won't help against those people, it will only work vs the other GGGers.

If you truly want to have a good chance to beat people like me, dst, etc...then GGG is wasted time. Sorry, but it is that way. I however voted no: If people want to waste their time on an imho inefficient way of training, let them.

As for how to beat drach rits permanently..Given the amount of farm some people invested, people might actually be able to kill some rits already. had they trained differently.

[phantasm]

Observer's post is laughable at best. So not much need to comment on that.


Burns. A main reason why I said you were the exception.

"Phan, you know as well as me that it's a blatant lie. No Globe in the world, not even in billions of years to come, can give you a realistic chance against a fighter."
I agree with completly. Many of those who don't dedicate their time in MD to fighting, only seek the chance to defend against fighters, not beat them.

"And win against token drachs with just immense attack and def? Don't lie into your own pockets, bro..."
Come on lets give a little more credit then this. Without having this turn into a spoiler, we both know Angiens work and its a very effective way to defend against drachorns when properly trained.

"It's a great place for players with weak stats to raise low level creatures, like grasans and knats and eles and angiens, but the training it offers is incomparably worse than the one offered outside of it."
I agree with this 100% Its why I like you Burns:P

*edit for ShadowSeeker* Your name was never brought up because of the facts you have stated. Thats why you were left out of this topic completely. You have always been one to be very helpful in the ways of training and instructions on how to train.

Edited February 19, 2010 by phantasm

[SageWoman]

I cannot understand why GGG is being singled out for some players boredum. Look within yourself and not at GGG or Magic Duel. When you point a finger, do the other four fingers not point back at you?

Has Cutler's creation of the Astral Plane been explored fully? I am constantly finding things within the Astral Plane to do and new things to learn. Go to Talking Rock at Gazebo of Equalibrium or touch the Attic Rope in the Paper Cabin and you can travel all over Magic Duel and not have to leave your scene or lose Action Points. Between Astral Plane Loreroot, Marind Bell and GGG, there is plenty to explore and see that you cannot reach otherwise.
Cutler is constantly creating puzzles and has a million ideas. Why not get with Culter and do a round-robin of idea exchanges?

Brush off your drama club skills of yesterday and try role playing with some people. Yes, some are quite silly but there are some that are quite interesting.

Magic Duel isn't just about raising the stats of your creatures or fighting others anymore. It is an important part, YES. However, Magic Duel is a place where you can let your imagination run WILD. You can be anything, do anything so long as you stay withing the established guidelines. Don't know how to role play? Watch others, interact with others and learn. Magic Duel is about learning from others.

Mur is the creator of Magic Duel but he is only one man. Just like the rest of us, he gets burned out and so he took a rest and rightly so. Everyone goes to him when there is something wrong or something isn't to the liking of a player. I cannot imagine what his Private Message Box looks like and I don't envy his tasks. However, he is the Creator and he will endure. What can YOU as a player, a Character in Magic Duel, DO to help Mur? I mean besides getting on your high horse and complaining? Mur has always said that Magic Duel is about the players actions, not his own that makes this Realm so great!

Let US, the Characters in Magic Duel, do our parts to help Magic Duel Become! WE are responsible for the content.

[Peace]

I voted yes, even if I am one of those who come and go at the globe frequently but I do this mostly because of the angiens win requirement. But frankly, I do the same in everywhere I go in MD, just with a different type or angien ritual, but my purpose is the same in both cases. And forgive me for saying this, I may like some people but my creatures don't. So yes, for the past weeks I have been attacking everyone I see just to train except a couple who I know that have unbreakable defences. And when I say train, I do not just mean to get a win for an angien, but to increase my other stats and also study the abilities of the creatures I am using.

I would like to point out that when the MRs created their training ground there were no tokens. So fights were pretty much based on stats and rituals only. What Burns said is right, stat farming at the Globe will not make you any stronger. No matter how much attack or defence you may have, someone who has other stats like initiative and luck can beat you before round one begins. There really isn't any reason as long as tokens are there for GGG to exist. Face it. I know I do, that is why even if my token collection rather sucks (because I didn't kept my creatures moving from one account to the other and load them with tokens) I have decent stats. I am not one who is very fond of the fighting system but I got to learn a lot from all those at Willow's when I was mp3 as to how stats used in combat to understand some of the basics on game mechanics.

MD is boring because we all make it boring. And trully, GGG is one of the factors that contribute to this. That is why new players know nothing on how to beat the Lorerootian Guards. Because they just sit at GGG using the same ritual over and over again, without even studying the battle logs. And then they wonder why they can't beat the guards. Point me to a player under 60 days old who is not an alt who knows where and which creatures are recruitable, what does a knator do on level three, what stat is required for lifestealers to suck your vitality and so many other things that are hidden in battle logs or in the creatures' abilities.

Tokens apparently can not be removed, because a lot of us have invested a lot of money on them. But stopping GGG is one thing to make a start and make MD interesting again, even for us vets who enjoy a good battle every now and then. And even if people go elsewhere to continue their 'stat grinding' (if attack training can be considered as such) people will still hunt them down and destroy their defences, it already happens at GGG already.

I believe that especially now with tokens people need to use the old fashioned way to train themselves. And no matter how long some mp3s or mp4s stay on that mp level, once they turn mp5 they are defenceless against a few around here.

I thank the MRs for helping me raise my stats back then when the tokens did not exist, I thank dst, Burns, Cless and many others who were at Willow's doing _actual_ stat farming. Because thanks to them, I learned even if I got beaten many times. But I am proud enough to say that when I was mp3 I managed to get victories from mp5 players who had much bigger stats than me, much better creatures than me and yet I won. How was that even possible? Could it be because I found out how to actually use my creatures in battle and how to set rituals?

Someone once told me that with the right strategy even the weak can beat the strong.

[Shantu]

I don't like GGG, even if I go there sometimes. It is nice, it gives free wins to your creatures and it helps in the beginning of MP5 but.. it drains all the people from the other areas of the realm. You wonder why don't you see anyone awake? They are all there. And, as it had been told before, you will learn nothing there (I wonder how many of the all-time GGGers could give working solutions to Burns' race quest). It is also in a place far away from normal areas.

So, I voted yes. However, it is unlikely that it will just disappear. So, how about relocating it? To a place.. closer to civilisation?


If you are afraid of the big bad veterans who come and beat you, set up a few trees. You might gather a few losses, but you won't have to heal your creatures all the time.. and you can farm the people Burns mentioned to get victories (including me).

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]When I see a post like this in the forum, I often wonder what really motivated the person to start it. So much of the time is spent bashing people and things within the realm instead of trying to make things better. Take down the dojo. It's broken, doesn't work, and is ruining the game. Take down GGG. It's broken, makes weak players, and is destroying the game. Next will probably be the santuaries because people hide there and others can't fight them. Ok, the last one may be a bit extreme.

I guess my question is what do you really care about? Do you (in general) as a player come to fight? Do you come to socialize? Do you come to smack the snot out of everyone you walk by whether they wreck your honor or not? I know why I come and removing something like the dojo or GGG won't make me leave. People insisting I leave an area because THEY don't like it I find troubling.

Why do I go to GGG? People to talk to without getting destroyed by whoever is on the hunt, and train the bazillion wins for the angiens.

Something that the really powerful players may not be aware of. When I started over a year ago, I was told something early that has always sort of hung with me. There are certain people that you don't attack because it's pointless. They will destroy you. Shadowseeker was one of the people I was told to never attack. dst was another. I admit that still sticks with me when I see them. That doesn't mean that I don't think about attacking them. In the back of my mind, they are a goal. Some day I hope to beat them. Just because I don't run around attacking every MP5 that goes by doesn't mean that I don't fight others outside of GGG.

People have been complaining about where people gather and how they fight each other for the entire year I've been here. Taking something down or putting something up won't change the complaining or how some people do things. Instead of looking at things to cure your bordem, look within. Decide not to be bored.[/font][/color]

[Czez]

If we wanted to encourage people to figure out more interesting ways to fight, we would cap skills the same way principles were capped. It is true now that there are people who train constantly and never fight. But I don't see much wrong with that. It is a reason to keep logging in, and setting attainable goals, for people who may not be into conversation or rp, or even finding targets or testing rits. Some just haven't the time, language skill, or interest.

We don't all play the same game. That's one of the most interesting and unique features of the realm. GGG provides an environment that serves the needs of many people. Eliminating it isn't going to change the way different people enjoy spending their time.

[Lazarus]

Fenrir Greycloth is a character that was supposed to be a Philosopher, so I was not surprised when I found out that he is against these things. A Philosopher indeed...

[Fenrir Greycloth]

[quote name='Lazarus' date='19 February 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1266634085' post='54806']
Fenrir Greycloth is a character that was supposed to be a Philosopher, so I was not surprised when I found out that he is against these things. A Philosopher indeed...
[/quote]

You hit the nail on the head. Fenrir is. I'm not. I am a logical and cynical person. Philosophy is something I do as a hobby.

[MRAlyon]

if you find so boring MD you always could stop to play... more people will be more happy for this!!!
I love this game and if you find it bored you don't give the fault to GGG or MD... try to change your character and try to do some friendships, so you'll see that more things will change for you...

PS: if you don't like GGG you shouldn't go into Golden Globe Gazebo interior and use it!!!

[Fenrir Greycloth]

You guys think I find MD boring? Umm... no?

This topic is just a continuation from the other so we can have this discussion without going off topic.

I see the GGG as a problem. It stops the players from learning how to set proper rituals, how to fight effectively within their means.

I changed the Dojo so that MP5s could attack other MP5s. Why? Because everyone hid there. Now, everyone is hiding in GGG training to become stronger. Why? Because it's easier. It requires little effort. I rarely ever train there, and yet, I can defeat most non token rituals without thinking to hard. I don't have amazing stats, and I don't have amazing creatures. But, I played MD before it became so lame. I remember when you couldn't walk through willows shop without being attacked.

No one ever idles anymore. Why? Because of the honour system. No one wants to take a loss. Why? Because of the honour system. No one ever wanders out of "safe" zones. Why? Because of the honour system.

Does anyone else see a pattern here?

No one will leave a safe place because they can't win. Not anymore.

MD is like a scale. Before, everything was generally balanced. But several additions come by, and totally made everything whacky. People thought it would be balanced soon again. But honestly, it has been over 6 months. Tokens are still here, the Honour system still makes people afraid.

GGG makes people think that they need to stat grind to be powerful. I admit the GGG is not the source of the problem, but it is a step in the right direction.

And people wonder why new players leave...

[MRAlyon]

Fenrir Greycloth... you can choose to go to GGG... it's not an obligation...
if players go there is because they love it... it's a place where all can meet and speak with other players...
if don't like it the only thing that you and other players that think it shouldn't use it...

all players are free to do that they think better for them...

Edited February 20, 2010 by MRAlyon