Alt Liberation

[Czez]

[I am posting this on behalf of a friend who because of 'Alt' status cannot even get a forum account!]

People of MD!

For too long we have tolerated injustice perpetrated on our brethren! The time has come! End Alt Abuse and Discrimination now! Demand more Rights for Alts!

Who among us can say he is not an Alt? Who has not been forced into idle mode while another 'Alt' is active?!

We, concerned Alts of MD, are seeking redress to include the following:

1. Henceforth, stop using the offensive terminology 'main' !!!

2. End discrimination in training areas such as GGG. We Alts have long provided public service keeping such areas rich with targets during off-peak hours, and some of us with honor as well! No longer shall we be forced into slavery, hidden in remote locations and abused by a select few!

3. End abusive practises which give us all a bad name, such as bringing us unto alliances solely to pass Heads and kicking us out with no role! You know who you are!

Support our cause! Liberation for Alts!

Sincerely,
X
Alt Liberation Front


p.s. If you do support this cause, show your solidarity by marking your own PL with 'I AM AN ALT'

[Chewett]

Your stupidity has reached a new level of unintelligibility.

lets dissect your "post"

[quote name='Czez' date='09 May 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1273422036' post='59584']
[I am posting this on behalf of a friend who because of 'Alt' status cannot even get a forum account!]
[/quote]

What BS is this? there is no limit to the creation of forum accounts, if you wanted to you could make 200 right now. The only limit we put on alts is that if you create several we talk with you (before any action is taken) and remove your accounts depending on what you say. This is because "alts" can easily change the outcome of polls and such.

[quote name='Czez' date='09 May 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1273422036' post='59584']
1. Henceforth, stop using the offensive terminology 'main' !!!
[/quote]

That word is merely a description, It depends on how people use your alt. I would never see Keith Moon even mention his "main" wheras i would use it when speaking on Chewett2 to describe Chewett

[quote name='Czez' date='09 May 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1273422036' post='59584']
2. End discrimination in training areas such as GGG. We Alts have long provided public service keeping such areas rich with targets during off-peak hours, and some of us with honor as well! No longer shall we be forced into slavery, hidden in remote locations and abused by a select few!
[/quote]

Mur himself said he will BAN alts in GGG each and every time he goes there. So your post will not change his idea.

What is your issue with alts? Are you annoyed that when you roleplay with you 50 different friends that you go into idle mode and its annoying? or perhaps that you cant farm of your alts to get easy wins.

All of the points you have made are both pointless and rahter stupid.

Oh yes, please do neg rep me and flame me. But all i see here is a stupid post from someone who has a past in abusing their own alts.

[wizard of heaven]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]thats.... dissapointing, Czez...really >_>




Nobody has anything against alts ... well exept [color="#ff0000"]Mur [/color]in GGG ... but he has a good reason for that ...




you did all this s*** just only for the forum account alt thingy?...... we all know why that rule is there.... [color="#0000ff"]Chewett[/color] just sayd too

And the word "[color="#2e8b57"]ALT[/color]" is not a mark or anything...it just means 'alternative account' ...nothing bad in that .............[/font]

[Chewett]

A little thing i didnt make clear

Alts are allowed, They are allowed so you can experiance MD differently. They are even encouraged so you can try everything MD has to offer. A perfect example is Tarq and Keith. They are two totally different people.

Alts are not allowed just to benifit a main or a group of people. This is why we have rules such as the one Mur imposed on GGG.

The rules are perfectly fine unless you are trying to abuse the system, So i dont where there can be an issue. Unless you are trying to abuse the system ofc.

[marleybob]

i am a player with multiple alts. i call marleybob my main, as it is the first account i created and the one i have got furthest with in this game, and so probably my favourite, hence it being my main. eventually when all my alts are at the same lvl i may decide that i prefer another account, if so then that one shall become my main. the reason for the term main is that generally you will hav an account that you prefer, i expect this to be for the majority of players but not all so if u are a player who likes all of his/her alts the same... congrats, frankly i do not care.

the reason for the discrimination of alts is simple, many features of this game can be ruined by the miss use of alts. altho there are many players who would try not to ruin these features there are far more who would do so hapily.
for instance
> the transfer of creatures from one account to another purely for the fact that it makes the game easier,
> multiple accounts attemptin the same quests, so if its a go decifer a code and then do some other stuff, the instant u do so u may b able to complete the quest with all ur accounts preventing any1 else from recieving the prizes,
> multiple accounts in ggg to train, ggg to me is a brilliant idea however since i hav been playin this game for a reasonable period of time when it was first formed i thought of it as a cheat to train with other players in such a manner, and so training there by yourself is rediculous

im sure there are many other things that would be ruined by alts that hav not occured to me, but i think that if al accoutns were treated equally the game would be ruined, it would also become easy and simple; which personally would not enjoy. the main reason i still play MD is due to the fact that is a lot more complex than most browser and reaslistically most web based games. making it simple and easy would make the game boring.


i no my spellin, punctuation and grammer are awful but im sure you can manage

ty

marleybob/sessel1/charliedave/kiss my anthia/kiss your anthia/dudemycar/watever others i may hav forgotten

[Burns]

obviously, Marley came here before i did...

For the sake of clarity, i'll distiguish between alts and multis for this post.

Why to not support multis:
-They are used as Magic Aging Devices, and people get all the benefits of crit-age without waiting.
-They are used to get stats, wins, xp, and bursts, specially in GGG, but not only there.
-They make it impossible to tell anything worthwhile knowing to anybody, because it will end in the wrong hands.
-They abuse free creds and the MDShop, and they do so very badly.
-They are used to token up the right creatures.
-They deliberately destroy the purpose of the newbie-levels.

Yeah, not all of them, alright...
But almost all.
For the sake of clarity, i'll distiguish between alts and multis for this post.

Multis destroy the purpose of the combat system, the make sure their 'main' has the best possible gain, i'll only remind of the announced item-giveaways, and they scare newbies.

I have only seen one person who actually played two accounts good, that being Tarquinus, and even he had to lay off Keith when things were troublesome in Loreroot. Literally ALL other people use their multis to benefit their main in one way or the other, and be it only being able to walk in the realm while the main is in story-mode (which is helping it to get better stat-gains, and NOTHING else, the 'don't wait'-option is there for a reason after all)

And so, even when i personally have to depend on multis, even when it's not my multis, to keep playing at all, i'd much rather have them all deleted right away, and people actually interact, which means acting with other persons, again.

TRUE alts, which means completely seperated, independent alternative personalities, those may stay.
Which doesn't include Zezc, for example, who constantly wants me to think she knows just as much as Czez, without having actively played more than maybe 3 days, with those stats and crits.

[MRAlyon]

I'm agree to use alts for try different ways in MD and make different stories but I don't like people that have more and more alts because it is abuse... in my opinion there are more people with at least one account that you don't think that it's his account and they have different stories and differnt friends etc...
I would only say that in my opinion have got alts for help other players isn't abuse but only useful... it's abuse when you always do alts for receiving different favour or other things... in fact the number of alts isn't important but it's very important how they are used...

Thanks
MRAlyon

[Czez]

[quote name='Chewett' date='09 May 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1273423273' post='59585']
Your stupidity has reached a new level of unintelligibility.[/quote]

C'mon! I really need to explain this is satire?!

But there is a serious point to it. I want a discussion of how ppl really use alts, and what exactly is abuse.

I use an alt Zezc as a peer mp3 to help noobs learn to set rits. She lives in the Paper Cabin. She is Czez, only mp3. Is this an abuse alt? Perhaps…. I used to play another char, who had separate life, goals, interests and friends from Czez. That clearly was not.

Recent public discussion, as well as the new rule restricting alts from GGG made this topic relevant. The restriction on alts previously had been that multiple accounts are not created with the purpose of aiding the main. There are clear cases where this has happened, and they have been punished when the abuse is egregious. But I don't see the alts in GGG as posing the same kind of problem, so I want to hear more about the motives for this restriction. There have been alts in GGG for a long time. In public training areas they benefit everyone, not mains. I don't care if you agree with me, but it is a topic worthy of sncere debate, rather than petty personal insults, Chewett, which are unbecoming of a Moderator.

[Shadowseeker]

For safety- Yes, you need to explain this is satire.

Often enough people can read it as it is meant to, often enough not. This post above to me is one where I thought that was meant serious.

If you truly wish to show irony, at least write a PS saying so or anything. Because the way you wrote it makes no sense in teh way you suggest just now.

Even so, alt use for mains? How _low_ has MD fallen?

Little groups and now this? Just because it helps the GGG farmers alts should be encouraged?....

Isn't it also the GGG farmers mainly profiting them, aside from the occasional appearance of someone else.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Czez' date='09 May 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1273430363' post='59599']
C'mon! I really need to explain this is satire?!

But there is a serious point to it. I want a discussion of how ppl really use alts, and what exactly is abuse.

I use an alt Zezc as a peer mp3 to help noobs learn to set rits. She lives in the Paper Cabin. She is Czez, only mp3. Is this an abuse alt? Perhaps…. I used to play another char, who had separate life, goals, interests and friends from Czez. That clearly was not.

Recent public discussion, as well as the new rule restricting alts from GGG made this topic relevant. The restriction on alts previously had been that multiple accounts are not created with the purpose of aiding the main. There are clear cases where this has happened, and they have been punished when the abuse is egregious. But I don't see the alts in GGG as posing the same kind of problem, so I want to hear more about the motives for this restriction. There have been alts in GGG for a long time. In public training areas they benefit everyone, not mains. I don't care if you agree with me, but it is a topic worthy of sncere debate, rather than petty personal insults, Chewett, which are unbecoming of a Moderator.
[/quote]

Am i not allowed to have an opinion of you also? I am not acting as a moderator in this subject, This is my person opinion.

Mur has made this one restriction on GGG because when he entered once he found a lot of alts. From what he said it seemed like he didnt like the fact there were a LOT of alts there and people were just farming wins of all of these alts. He said this was abuse, and its quite obvious why.

I do not see the issue you have with what he has decided?

[Burns]

Oh, of course, forging wins is just the right thing to do...

Maybe, and that's just some weird thought, Mur did win- and xp-requirements so people had to fight for training creatures?
And i say HAD, because with GGG, they don't.

I'll just go with two examples, which are widely known, claw angiens and remains.
Remains are god-damn hard to train normally, which is why VE isn't skyrocketing... oh wait.
And clawed Angiens are so severly overpowered that they are completely impossible to train to any level over 4... uh, again, wait a moment...

Yeah, do that with your precious time if you like, but don't do it with 5 accounts per person, because that IS CHEATING. It cheats the people who play normally, because your days have 120 hours, and not 24, when you attack the same person 10 times in 8 minutes, instead of 2 times.

If i started avoiding the time-restrictions, you'd have me banned for cheating. What do people in GGG do with their multis, when we break it down to the smallest bits?

[phantasm]

Since this topic is steering twards the GGG I will post my own derailment. Czez you never cease to amaze me at the incredibly stupid things you come up with to argue about. You wonder at my comment, when it continues to hold true every time you open that trap you call a mouth.

I have been working twards getting rid of alts, MP3 alliance members, and MP2s from the GGG for some time now. Mur has greatly helped in this by putting his foot down on it. Maybe this also need cleared up alittle. YOU CAN TRAIN ALTS AT THE GGG, JUST NOT HAVE THEM IDLE FOR OTHERS TO TRAIN ON WHILE YOU TRAIN YOUR MAIN AND/OR OTHER ALTS. The day of GGG mules are over. I see this as one of the greatest steps twards getting this GGG back under control. I can also personally guarantee you I, and Chewy, will do out best to keep you from abusing one of the greatest dojo's I have ever seen in the game.

There is nothing wrong with an alt. Most older vet's and even some newer people play alts when it becomes too much for them to handle with their main. Wether it be drama, duties, or just flat out too much play time, alts are a fun way to experience the realm from a different point of view. What isn't good is the ones that store creatures on them for ages to sell to make silver for their mains, store creatures for their mains, and help to quickly abuse the stat grinding or victory gaining aspect. Many of these reasons were why there were some very influential people against the GGG, such as Burns and others. Many have come to me and Chewy thanking us for cleaning the place up, and we have more to come.

Play your alts with respect to the game. Anything else will find your alts banned, shunned, or mutilated. Thank you come again.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Oh, when I say Alts are wrong, and should be banned, I get flamed. But when someone else says it, praise the Lord, they are the new saviour.

Been saying this for a year. Glad to see it has finally sunk in.

[Udgard]

[quote name='Burns' date='10 May 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1273427496' post='59596']

I have only seen one person who actually played two accounts good, that being Tarquinus, and even he had to lay off Keith when things were troublesome in Loreroot. Literally ALL other people use their multis to benefit their main in one way or the other, and be it only being able to walk in the realm while the main is in story-mode (which is helping it to get better stat-gains, and NOTHING else, the 'don't wait'-option is there for a reason after all)

[/quote]
Just want to add that I have seen some other nicely played alts as well, Calyx of Isis's alt for one example.

/end of not so useful and rather off topic post

[redneck]

reneck is an alt ftw!! but he has became my main

[Indyra]

Czez ...i wonder...were you really ...really bored ...when you posted this ? How the h*** do you manage to get yourself in the biggest S*** ? you say [quote][I am posting this on behalf of a friend who because of 'Alt' status cannot even get a forum account!][/quote] and then you start arguing about this . If you were only a messenger you should be neutral. Since you proved you are not "your friend" really tricked you if he convinced you to post this kind of crap.

[quote]Uncommon things that you CAN do

* You can have multiple accounts, to try out story, to experince new ways of play etc ..., however if you are detected that you are using them just to help one of your main accounts , all of them including the main will get banned.[/quote]

so ALts are allowed , alt abusing isn't!

[Chewett]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='10 May 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1273451321' post='59613']
Oh, when I say Alts are wrong, and should be banned, I get flamed. But when someone else says it, praise the Lord, they are the new saviour.

Been saying this for a year. Glad to see it has finally sunk in.
[/quote]

Actually no one is saying they should be banned. They are just saying abuse of alts is wrong. You say you are just against all alts.

Czez, if you want to start a serious topic, begin it as you mean to go on. It just clouds the issue up. What is your issue with alts? There are some clearly defined rules and i dont see any issues with them. So i really wonder why you started this topic.

[Fyrd Argentus]

The original post clearly went right past the target and splatted on the wall....

But, for the record, I did get that this was satire, poking fun at the extreme measures taken against alts these days. I too am a bit anxious and insecure in wondering what thing I might do to cross the invisible arbitrary lines -- and part of this is born from being ignorant of how rampant alt abuse really is out there. It was a VERY round-about way to start a dialog about what the rules are, without pointing out accusingly that they sometimes seem arbitrary and heavy-handed to those not in the know about what really goes on.

I sometimes feel like a little kid wondering if he'll be sent to jail for sticking his finger in the cake frosting before supper.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Mur won't ban new players unless they do something incredibly stupid and obviously against the rules. Not that there is a set list anywhere. And if you think the little link at the top of MD is a list, think again. It's nowhere near complete.

Just don't be stupid. And you might survive.

[dst]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='11 May 2010 - 08:46 AM' timestamp='1273556769' post='59678']
Just don't be stupid. And you might survive.
[/quote]


And you are the living proof that what you said is wrong .
And what's the bs about the moderator thingy? Since when are moderators not allowed to express an opinion? You people are getting waay out of hand with certain things.


Back on topic: Sarcasm? Are you kidding me? That's no sarcasm. This topic was made with a purpose but seeing the negative reaction czez turned 180 degrees. You can't be sarcastic and post stupid things in the PL. You CAN'T be that "sarcastic".
Freedom for alts? Since when are they jailed? And what other freedom do you want? Shish! Alts can be abused. And they can be abused really bad. Technically everybody can do it. But, as I said a million times, if you get caught, don't start whining. And stop screaming "which hunt" when someone (usually me) points the finger at someone for abusing something.

Conclusion:is there any?

[phantasm]

Conclusion:is there any?

That this post should be closed to keep from further flaming?

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

I am in agreement with closing this topic. The forum does not need anymore flaming.

[Czez]

One would hope people can resist flaming, and find better reasons to kill a discussion. This topic has helped bring some things to light, but I still have some questions.

I like alts, I play alts. It is nice to see the realm through fresh eyes, or anonymously. In MD it's very challenging to develop multiple separate chars because everything is so interconnected and also because many people play primarily ooc. So, as others have mentioned, there is a lot of grey area when it comes to the difference between an account and a char.

Specificaly regarding the GGG, what's the difference between alts training in there, and alts elsewhere in the realm like Venger and Gogu, or the Libs?

Is the rule for GGG that no player can have more than one char/account in the GGG at one time, or is it meant to exclude all less active chars/accounts, and how do you draw that line? This is a sincere question. Are we not meant to actively train more than one account?

[Udgard]

If I understand correctly from a reply in the first page, the rule allows you to train alts there, just that you should not leave another of your chars idle there for others to farm on while you're training another char.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Czez' date='12 May 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1273679001' post='59723']
Specificaly regarding the GGG, what's the difference between alts training in there, and alts elsewhere in the realm like Venger and Gogu, or the Libs?

Is the rule for GGG that no player can have more than one char/account in the GGG at one time, or is it meant to exclude all less active chars/accounts, and how do you draw that line? This is a sincere question. Are we not meant to actively train more than one account?
[/quote]

Here is a direct Quote from one of the Clickables we have set up at GGG

[quote]Bannable Offence by Decree of Mur

After a period of talking with Mur, he wants to make people know that alts to solely farm off are not allowed at GGG
You are only allowed one Character per player at GGG at a time.
[...]
If Mur comes in and finds several characters from one player then he will BAN all but the main.
There will be no Discussion about this.
[/quote]

If this isnt clear enough we can change it to make it clearer, But it seems pretty clear already.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Chewett