What Has The Torch Become?

[Darigan]

ok I can realize that for whatever reasons this wasn't brought up last time because there was a lot of other things going on and for whatever reasons people didn't want to mention it...but this is ridiculous.

todays announcement

[quote]The torch competition ended! The final score for each land is as follows:
Underground 1,
Golemus Golemicarum 37,
The rewards went to the national treasury of each land, their distribution depends on the internal organising of each faction.[/quote]

the announcement from the 10th

[quote]Torch competition ended
The torch competition ended! The final score for each land is as follows:
Underground 1,
Golemus Golemicarum 37,
The rewards went to the national treasury of each land, their distribution depends on the internal organising of each faction.[/quote]


Does it not seem odd to anyone that after two torch competitions the same scores came in for the same lands? What exactly did Golemus do sit inside some other land and just wait for people to grab a torch then kill them?

Is this all acceptable...if so I'll kindly shut up and ask the mods to close this otherwise I'd really like to know whats going on?

[Shadowseeker]

If I'm not mistaken that shows the total score for the lands..meaning nothing changed, and currently the score is 37/38 points in GG, and 1/38 in the UG.

[Darigan]

So one land is allowed to completely decimate the torch?

Edited June 17, 2010 by Darigan

[dst]

No Shadow, it's not the total score. It's the score from this round.


Darigan,I don't get it: what's the problem?

[Shadowseeker]

Well, right now no other land is doing anything against, which is also due to the different moving costs...some lands are even in the negative from what I remember. Try using the search function with regards for more info, I won't pull it out right now.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Shadowseeker

[dst]

Psst Shadow! This is the score from this round!

You would be amazed to see the total score.

[Darigan]

Hmmm I guess there is no problem, just seems odd to me that two times in a row gg has what i'd see as a big score also kind of odd that its the exact same score twice in a row....I'm aware that Loreroot did something like this in the past and they got beaten into the negatives because of one persons flaunting about it but it just seems....weird to me that gg would be able to do it twice with the same results

[Shadowseeker]

Wait wait..that's the current score? I recall something saying the counter would show the total score..

Odd, but..the hell, who was doing that score?

[dst]

As far as I remember, the total score was posted just once.

And I agree that the score is odd but it's not impossible. It can be done.

[Shadowseeker]

Oh hell, you're right..

[2010-01-16 23:57:28 - Alpha 9]
The current torch competition stats, counted since the first compatition untill this moment (fight is not over yet), is as follows:

Golemus Golemicarum 94
Underground 30
Necrovion 7
Loreroot -57
Marind Bell -78

Its clear that some lands are more difficult to defend or have more people holding torches while other lands are more or less active than others in this competition. The positive scores of the torch count each competition but the overall situation shows the total score achieved so far by each land. This score is important and you should not ignore it. Torch competition is an event that still has a lot of things to surprise you in the future. Now that you know that score is tracked also over all competitions together, you might find it more important to raise your land score higher and build a good strategy to do it.

Well, there aren't too many GG's, so it limits the choice...no clue who though.

[Manda]

Please the torch commpetion (its my player opinion) was made to players, citizens of his lovely lands or alliances, try t o see how much they grow in skills -- tactics, via fights, and to give some awards, to the lands, that give to those, too much i dont like when i see (example) loreroot 1 golemus golmenican 1, none none none...

its to incentivate, the competitivity of the palyes is not necesary to build a indestructive army only one good and see if others have a chance..

is not a surprise, that some times only one land get a lot of score if u want to see ur land with score well fight, kill stop players that try to get easy pts form unsuspecting ply.
(maybe friendly alliances can exchange but donno)

if they win same thing twice, that's wrong

i dont think it was a bug but maybe ....

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]Loreroot used to run the torch until some events made a majority of us decide to stay away from it. That event is what buried us so badly. We(in general) may not have made good decisions, but a majority of us tried to rectify it. Sadly we're [u]still[/u] called cheaters even though only one or two still run it. We only won big once.

Golemus has done it twice now. No assault on them. No calling them cheaters. I'm not saying Golemus did anything wrong. I walk the land looking for torch carriers and rarely if ever see one. How badly are lands like MB, LR, and probably Necro buried now?[/font][/color]

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

For a very long time I have had newer players come to me and ask why no one was running the Torch Competition, if you look at the negative score... that should be a good indication as to why. Loreroot wins decently once and we all get assaulted for it and beat down into the negatives, Marindbell is in an inconvenient location for Torch Competition. There is no protection in their land and the capital is rather public, thus it seems that the inhabitants of the land don't even bother with it.


Why bother with a contest where you will have fingers jabbed in your face and false accusations made toward you if you even try to win? More over, why bother if your land has little to no protection?


Perhaps it is not always best to boast about a win, but that time there was absolutely no fair play from anyone and it simply got ridiculous.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[Chewett]

[quote name='Amoran Kalamanira Kol' date='18 June 2010 - 02:36 AM' timestamp='1276825019' post='62147']
Marindbell is in an inconvenient location for Torch Competition. There is no protection in their land and the capital is rather public, thus it seems that the inhabitants of the land don't even bother with it.
[/quote]

MB are so far in the negatives it is not likely we shall ever return, But ofc we can thank the kind people of Loreroot and Golemus for that. I dont know about others, but i know that its too easy for the other lands to "cheat" points, so until something makes the contest much fairer im not taking part, nor organising any defence.

[Darigan]

I agree Chewy with most of that with the add on that from that announcement back in January and knowing what little i do of the current scores I'd be willing to bet the only two lands not in the negatives at this point are GG and UG. I'd very much like to see something done to make things more fair for everyone

[Yrthilian]

Hmm well it would seem people dont understand the system at all do they

"LR got beaten down for heating"
There was proff given so this cannot be false.
there were alts used in that TC at that time to help you win.
end of.

Now back to the fact the Golemus keeps winning

How do we keep winning?
well we take part and with the current game setup anyone can do it.

As to the neg point they dont really cont anyways but yes will make it mor difficult
Chew accuses Golemus of making them in the neg.
Sorry chew but i can say for sure that was not us.

UD is easer to keep defended.
Golemus well we are far way from most lands
LR got the smack down from the TC long ago and well have been more or less left alone
Necro well they are closer to one land than the rest

Comon people look at the system look at how it can be done without CHEATING
it is not hard and Golemus has shown this to be true with only a few taking part.

Why dont you just try playing fair an see what happens.
How about this I challange you all to do better and find the way to win

[Firsanthalas]

Actually, with respect Yrth, nobody even bothered to check if anyone else was cheating. It was simply decided that Loreroot did and that was the end of it.
If people cheated in Loreroot, well that is fair enough. I said at the time that if it was cheating, then I would not condone it and I didn't want to see it again. But ONLY Loreroot was accused of it. As far as I could see, people reacted to a stupid statement and wanted blood. There didn't seem to actually much care about cheating at all really. If there was, it sure didn't seem to be in any way objective. I would also like to point out that after that, a certain person sat outside Ravenhold with both alts in the exact same location and the exact same time with Loreroot torches for people to take and score points against Loreroot. NOBODY seemed to have any issue with that at all (except the cheating Lorerootians perhaps ). Two wrongs do not make a right. I have since witnessed a particular tactic being employed by others that Loreroot was condemned for using. Again, seems to be an issue there don't you think? I also had a certain Golemnus person make a remark to me a while back about how Loreroot were still cheating in the TC because Loreroot won it twice in a row. Loreroot scored a whopping 3 points in one and something like 2 or 4 in the other. There are about two people in Loreroot that actually bother to run torches. Yet simply because Loreroot won the contest, we cheated. Seriously, it is beyond the stuff of stupidity. It is getting really old now.

Also, it is in no way fair as numerous people have pointed out. MB is in a really awful position. They are pretty much the whipping boys and girls of TC. And that is one reason I have no interest in taking part in it.

[Fyrd Argentus]

I have refused to particpate in TC for two reasons based on perceptions I've picked up. They may not be factually correct, but they are persistant rumors.

1) The TC bug will mess you up if you can't continue and drop the torch by logout. Slow march makes it highly likely that RL will intervene, and you must drop the torch, and be screwed up.

2) If you get to goal without fighting, you get no points, and thus the huge slow effort was wasted. And since when I scout the lands publically available during TC, I usually see NOBODY carrying a torch, except a bunch of noobies from MB setting themselves up for bug problems, a zero return on the effort is again likely.

My suggestions -- fix the logout bug and give big bonus points to all those MB noobs who run the torch without having to fight.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[Lifeline]

i dont know how many times i already said that but the torch competetion is so flawed that even if Marind Bell were to cheat like hell they wouldnt get one single score.
u dont believe me? just a few points:

MB has the only capital that can be accessed by new players who pick up a torch, walk 2 steps out until they have no ap and then sit there for 12mins unable to move. in that time somebody kills them and is able to walk right into the sanct with the score from the noob kill without having to wait for ap or anything. which gets MB negative score and him positive score.

MB can be attacked from 2 sides especially the side from loreroot cant be defended at all because its no even our own teritory. they need 1 single step on MB ground to score.

MB has the sanct that is easiest reached. much closer to GoE than any other sanct so everybody scores in MB. of course they do why wouldnt they its easiest and fastest.


and lastly...why does golemus have such a huge score? because only 1 or 2 player participate for it? noo because it takes twice as many steps to their capitol as to winds sanct. so why would anybody ever walk all the way to golemus to score. they simple never get and neg score. its like u need 1 hour to walk to winds sanct and 2 hours to golemus...why u go to golemus then?

oh and i forgot one torch competetion underground allied with Marind Bell and scored over 40+ points but what happened? no score at all because of all the neg score we get from mp3 and mp4 who are new players.

TC is just so ridiculous unbalanced and impossible for some lands to even get positive score that i dont bother anymore at all. its the worst competition i ever saw and i feel bad for even taking place in it no matter what torch i carry.
so yes let the flying fortress of golemus keep winning while all the other peasant towns (lore, MB, ect) keep getting torched.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Lifeline

[Miq]

I have always felt that you should be able to take only the torch of your own land and no torches for neutral players. But that still leaves the problem of location...

[Yrthilian]

yes locations are a main sorce of problems as to whome is easer to get to.
people keep counting the steps from GoE

For Golemus the easy place is necro to attack
not winds it is more costly in AP

Now i am not saying winds is not the closet to GoE
but i for one do not go there.


With regard the TC i agree that if you are associated with a land
you should not be able to take a torch from another lands capital
this would in its self cut back on the points scoring and make people
play agenst other lands. But again other land are almost dead in regards
to population or because of time zones.

One thing i have to point out even in TC mp5 cannot attack mp3/4 unless they are in an allaince
it is done under the same as the combat system.

[Firsanthalas]

Ok, so problems are:

Capital locations and accessibility.

Number of and what players are taking torches.
Necro will tend to only have MP5 players with torches (excepting alliance members). Loreroot should usually only have MP4 and above (I know there are MP3s, but lets face it, that number should be way smaller than the number of MP3s that are getting in)
The current system means that you only score a point for taking a torch from an enemy and scoring in their capital. If the system worked more correctly (you could only take torches from your own land) this actually gives an advantage to lower population lands. I know this sounds strange, but consider it for a moment. Assuming that only people of a set land take torches from there and only points are scored based on that land having it's torches taken by force, that means that low population lands are very difficult to gain scores against.
Lets give an example. Land A have a population of 10. Land B population is 2. Theoretically, if all people are carrying torches, Land B has an opportunity to score 10 points, while land A only 2. This doesn't make much sense in my opinion. A larger populated land making more effort actually seems to get penalised.

A suggestion that I would make, would be to allow people to simply carry a torch from one land to another for 1 point. If they defeat an opposing torch player and reach the enemy capital, then it should be 2 or 3 points for each capture torch.
If you don't have a system like this, then some lands will simply not participate. If you fix it so that only citizens of a land can take a torch from said land (which seems to be the right way to go about it, not just any random person), then if no citizens take torches, then no score can be made against them.

Regardless, at the moment it is badly broken.

[Miq]

well it does not have to be that you can get score off the same land that you score against, that is if loreroot goes to score against necro then he gets points for all wins against other lands (same "cheating" can still be done between lands). The 1 point for reaching enemy capital is something I'd vote for.