Petition Against February

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

MP3 is a little different, but Im going to make a comment from the perspective of a very old MP4.

I'm not going to try to explain why im still MP4 as I've tried before and all MP5s who ask ever do, regardless of my words, is say im scared of them and that they could beat the crap out of me (maybe thats why feb is rubbing his wins in your faces ay? a simple attitude change might help the whole situation.)
[color="#0000FF"]
- community force whether by a king, an individual or a committee - [/color]
If you want to do this, then you will as a consequence (even with thanatopic's idea which is pretty cool) also change what the MP levels mean and what the game means as far as I'm concerned. Although it does already seem to be going in this direction.
[color="#0000FF"]- Stats cap - [/color]
It isn't the stats that are the issue as such, but this is the best of the 4 imo, and if we consider I have had 3 shop resets, 1 xp drop and have played for years and only have one stat over Shadow's suggestion - depending on the levels it isn't very restrictive unless you grind and fight a lot.
[color="#0000FF"]- Stats Penalty - [/color]
How is one supposed to be able to gauge when it isnt or is ok to attack?
[color="#0000FF"]- Do nothing - [/color]
There obviously is an issue, but it isn't a big one...yet. Not sure closed eyes is the best plan.

Z

[Curiose]

I like the idea of a guild monitoring people.

I do not like mp3's being restricted of shop, simply because of other things that are in there.
They could be restricted of certain ITEMS, perhaps, but not shop in general.

I also like stats reset.
But that is also up to the individual player to decide if they are going to reset or not.
[Quick question, though: If someone is capped, they cannot give experience and such to other players, yes?]

[Thanatopic]

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' timestamp='1283006936' post='67225']

[color="#0000FF"]
- community force whether by a king, an individual or a committee - [/color]
If you want to do this, then you will as a consequence (even with thanatopic's idea which is pretty cool) also change what the MP levels mean and what the game means as far as I'm concerned. Although it does already seem to be going in this direction.
[color="#0000FF"]
[/color][/quote]

What do you mean by this? Which direction would that be? And how would this do that?

I'm curious, not attacking.

[lightsage]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1283012426' post='67228']
[Quick question, though: If someone is capped, they cannot give experience and such to other players, yes?]
[/quote]

They definitely can.

[Curiose]

Then in that case...

How would one force a player who is capped, to reset their stats so as not to cause any more damage than done?

I do believe that should also be a priority to the guild, or lho, or whichever community group does it. To reset the stats of a player before moving them up to the next level... if they seem to be a nuisance, then force them up.

[adiomino]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1283012983' post='67231']
Then in that case...

How would one force a player who is capped, to reset their stats so as not to cause any more damage than done?

I do believe that should also be a priority to the guild, or lho, or whichever community group does it. To reset the stats of a player before moving them up to the next level... if they seem to be a nuisance, then force them up.
[/quote]


waiiit reset their stats? that seems a bit harsh even if people do consider them a nuisance. i think moving them up a mind power would be good enough if anything is done at all

[Curiose]

.. or, their exp, rather. Whichever was chosen.

Sorry. :c Headache and sleepiness.

[dst]

@Curiose: they cannot GET xp and stats but they can give.
@Thanatopic:if you let a bunch of people decide who has to go to next mp level...abuses will flood.At lest this is how I see it.

And now my 3 cents about this:
-February is a special case. It's one of those cases that never count in a statistic.
-what he did, if it's true (and yes, I don't doubt Burns either) and I am referring to capping new mp3s is bad. Some time ago there were 2 players that used to go and give negative vp to mp3s. Those 2 players ended up in jail. They hurt the new players using [u]game mechanics [/u](so they did not break the rules or anything like that) but they still were punished. This SETS in my opinion a precedent.
-Lifeline is right: the system needs to be changed a bit. Certain "broken" stuff needs to be "fixed". And it's easy to do it.

[Curiose]

Uhm..

How about a committee of sorts?
They don't necessarily go around searching for people who abuse the system, but when presented with a case such as this... they discuss it, and bring their decision to someone who is the head hancho.

The head hancho has to decide for himself, with the checks and balances of other such responsible players, or by Mur, or the LHO, whoever... so as not to create abuse.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

[quote name='Thanatopic' timestamp='1283012664' post='67229']
What do you mean by this? Which direction would that be? And how would this do that?I'm curious, not attacking.
[/quote]

Creating a system where MP levels are forced on people is endorsing and hailing a mechanical grinding mentality of arcade play. By not automating it but instead having a human decision factor, it doesnt remove that, it just becomes more susceptible (as dst mentionned) to abuse either by allowing people to stay lower or forcing people higher.

Thats the quickest and dirtiest way to explain it.

Z

[Shadowseeker]

People, don't stray off too far in regards to the aim of the topic..

Ontopic:

We don't need a commitee, nor do we need a guild.

Hell, it just needs one person who could do the click thing, in case we do go by the manual approach and not the mechanic stat cap.

That one person can do it himself, although there can be input from others...that person should act by himself. If we make a big group we have no use for them, and generally observing the actions of that person elevating MP's is hopefully done by us anyways.

I say, make it a general rule thing. Add a stat cap, afterwards they don't get anything, and if they abuse their stats by messing up MPs we discuss this again here.

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]-guild monitoring won't work. That player could be told by his guild to move up or else, but what can really be done? Boot the player from the alliance? Doesn't solve the problem just limits attacks back to the already hurting MP level.

-human reliance to "do the right thing" will always be subjective and flawed. What's right to one is wrong to another in cases like this.

-for those MP3s attacking someone that could cap them before having the 100 wins & losses a warning could pop up saying "WARNING: Attacking this player may force you to the cap before your win/loss goal is reached. Do you wish to continue?"

-for those that have the power to cap other players, a counter could be put into place. It's been said that february has capped many people. A counter for players capped by this person could be put into place. Once a specific number is reached, a flag would go up. Then action could be taken. This should only apply to MP3.[/font][/color]

[Sephirah Caelum]

I read everything till the end of page 2, becouse
I got tired reading the others
posts. So this is my idea:

You could give to February a title, something like: Poisonous guy
(better than MP3 Monster), and before a player attack him, a mensage
appear saying that would be a bad idea to do it.

That is my point. If I'm repeating someone's post please apologises me.

~Sephs

[Muratus del Mur]

stats cap is too hard restriction
i am considering sac limlt and an admistrative item for pushing to next mp but with a low reuse rate
no jail or punishment for february, no fixing of affected players (too hard to check all and be fair)
cap count sound also good but i fear its complicated to do especially on defence

keep telling your thought on that

thnx

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

Lifeline: I do not agree that february is not at fault. Granted there are certain flaws in the system, I'm sure, but that doesn't solve the current issue that february has presented. If only the system is repaired and he stays at his current level, with his massive amount of VE or stats (not certain about the stats), he can continue to do the same thing to mp3's over and over again.

My opinion is that he should be moved to the next level, if he chooses not to do so on his own.

As for why I decided to comment, I have reason to believe that one of my adepts had encountered his ritual, which pushed her to the mp3 cap. Because of this she decided to simply make a new account and start over.

I personally do not have anything against february, nor do I talk to him much, thus I think a forced mp level raise is fair and I do like the suggestion of an item given to the kings that will give them the ability to do this. I'm not certain what my thoughts are concerning the sacrifice limit, though. I can see that potentially causing a problem, depending on what the limit is.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1283035424' post='67259']
cap count sound also good but i fear its complicated to do especially on defence
[/quote]
Monitor the "E lost: 4vit; A lost: 7vit;" and the "Casualties: Defender:32%, Attacker:64%" of MP3 fights, and if it meets the conditions for giving more than x experience, flag it and if necessary, send someone to ask about it.

[Throm McLeod]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1282959666' post='67199']

- stats penalty calculated dynamically based on how weak the opponent is. this means attacking very weak enemies will cost you dearly, but its hard to do/balance
[/quote]
this could generate sub divisions within all MP levels. What would be good for some weaker players.

I also like the idea of Shem, about a limit of levels that the creatures may have in MP3, so nobody will want to stay longer than it needs at this level Mp.

[That Other Guy]

- Enforce a sacrifice limit to mp3 and mp4 (10 for mp3), (32 for mp4)
- A guild dedicated to monitoring this is a terrible idea, and something that will end up being abused.
- Giving Kings the power to do so over their citizen is something I personally Disagree with. (why would they put them selves under the mercy of a king then?)
- LHOs are trusted NEUTRAL people who should be given the power to do so. (move mp levels up)

Just my Opinion.

[Bronzometh]

Sac limit is not a good idea, because it will be a great disadvantage for new players since they will have no chance to greatly improve their VE, while the old players will still have high amounts of VE. New players deserves to have the same rights that the old players had, otherwise their living will be much harder than it already is. Considering that one day a new player will get to MP5, the game will already be very hard for him/her just because of the age difference between them and the vets. And the new players that will join, in 2011 will have even harder playing than those who joined yesterday. And obviously, players that will join in 2012 will have even harder times. Setting such restrictions for them will make this game allot more harder, maybe even impossible (talking about the time when they will get to MP5, if they will). Stats cap is a bad idea because of the same reasons.

Giving some players the ability to force others to advance in MP lvl is totally wrong, because those ppl could abuse that ability (and it's not fair).

Restricting crits max lvl for MP3 doesn't sounds right. Mp3 alliance members would be disadvantaged. This will result in restricting MP3 to join alliances.

Penalty for strong players that attack week players sounds reasonable, but it is impossible to apply,
since that will greatly restrict the number of characters someone can attack (especially for the old MP5 players, that already complains that they have few targets, if that would apply to all MP lvls). A severe punishment for those who intentionally caps others would be better, and fair (however, they should not be punished if they try to win a competition). And such punishment should apply to MP4 as well (certainly, february could cap MP4 characters as well, when he gets to MP4). Anyway, setting a dangerous defense should not be punished, since it is the attackers responsability for his action. There is no need of pop up singn, or flag, or any other indicator. The amount of vitality is more than enough to inform the attacker that the character he/she intends to attack is dangerous, and could cap him. New players just need to be informed about the risk, so that they can avoid it. But this would mean restricting the use of angiens in PvP attack rituals for MP3 and MP4 (except for contests). If this restriction could be coded (so that the system doesn't allow the use of angiens in attack rits, the rit that contains at least an angien will automatically be flagged as defense rit, and no defense rit could be used for attack - if that is possible to code), then the problem would be solved. However, this should not apply for alliance members and MP5, and this should not apply during contests. If that can't be coded, then it will be impossible to prove that someone intentionally caped a character if the attacker activates a burst before the defender notices the attack. Something should be done so that the defender can see all the battle logs.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Bronzometh

[Shadowseeker]

I still vote for stat cap, maybe higher, but as harsh as it may be:

Capping counter, each newbie capped is one too much.

Sac limit can work, but again, what about the people who recruit 16 aramors and then get rid of them? It's just the same with stats...and no mp3 should have 15k attack, for example.

Administrative item..well, who'd get it is the question, seeing as most people would fear for abuse.

Conclusion: I still support stat cap.

[Fyrd Argentus]

How about this: For MP3, no saccrifices allowed (or rather, no benefit from it), but no cap either. This is good for the victims of being capped - they may carry on getting their wins and losses, and gives the grinder a reason to move up -- this is the only way to "harvest the fruit" of their creature grinding. And it prevents you building up a huge VE by saccrifice alone.

[Burns]

[s]I like the saccing limit, but would suggest tweaking it so that only sacrifices of lvl 2 or higher go into consideration for that, for exactly the reason Shadow pointed out: they might buy too many souls, grasans and aramors before knowing that there is more.[/s]

Ohhh, scratch that, i love Fyrd's idea! =D
No gains for saccing creatures on mp3! Perfect! =)

[quote]disadvantage for new players since they will have no chance to greatly improve their VE,[/quote]

Exactly my point. Newbies don't need more than 5k VE, if at all. When they get to mp5, they can still get more if they feel like.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Burns

[lightsage]

I don't like the part with still being able to get wins... Because people might purposefully stay at MP3 because there is more targets until they have an insane amount of wins.

[february]

to protect the newbies.. we can give them a "safety time" where they can't be attacked unless they want to be attacked..

the newbie must click ok first before the battle starts..

Edited August 29, 2010 by february

[lightsage]

Well, no. For the simple reason that there won't be any players their lvl to attack than