No Sanctuary Day

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='lightsage' timestamp='1288779300' post='71372']
Actually, your comparison is flawed. There is already a day that everywhere is a sanctuary which seems to be the opposite to having no sanctuaries at all for a day rather than having older players put weak defences up. (For the record: Most of them already do)
[/quote]
Please read the entire topic, I already refuted your counterargument a mere page ago. For your convenience, here's a copy paste:

"The days of Tranquility are supposed to become tied to the day/night cycle (for lack of better word). [b]Regular days are its counterweight.[/b]"

And the quote from the announcements:
"Later when Night mode will be completed, these tranquillity days will happen always and only during night time."

Even if I can understand why you wish that a 'day of bloodshed' is the balance for a 'day of tranquility', it is not the only possible construct for balance. Personally I don't think days of bloodshed are balanced at all, but lucky for me I can refer to a higher authority, Mur, to prove my logic is better than yours.

[lightsage]

@Kafuuka (as I see no point to quote the post above)

You wrongly presume that I claim that this is an argument in favour. The only thing I've said is that 'day of tranquillity' and 'no sanctuary day' would be opposites. I have not claimed that this would mean they balance each other out or that there are no other factors involved concerning ballance.

Your second wrong presumption is that I have not read the entire topic, because I have.

Your post came across as aggressive and rude. I'd suggest that even [i]should[/i] someone repeat a previously (in your opinion) rebutted argument you remain polite.

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='lightsage' timestamp='1288809981' post='71390']
You wrongly presume that I claim that this is an argument in favour.[/quote]
I never said that, nor is it a hidden part of my argument. My argument is against your argument against pipster. Whether you claim your reply to pipster is in favor of the idea or not does not change the value of my argument as a tool to refute yours.

[quote]The only thing I've said is that 'day of tranquillity' and 'no sanctuary day' would be opposites. I have not claimed that this would mean they balance each other out or that there are no other factors involved concerning ballance.[/quote]
I suppose I should apologize for interpreting your words in the only way that makes sense. Pipster was talking about balance, the entire topic is about game balance, hence it only makes sense for you to be talking about balance too. Furthermore, as far as my command of English goes, talking about 'the opposite' implies the one and only opposite, otherwise you should use opposite without 'the'.

About being rude, I can accept we both are.

[Kamisha]

Now I like the idea yes but what I see is a who bunch of vets using it almost as an abuse tool. You may have good intentions but I see it in practice as a bad idea.

[HeHelpedMe]

I think the "No Sanctuary Day" is a horrible idea. I immediately considered it the worst idea ever until I read about another "great" invention: "no logout button".
So, basically, you want to attract more god-modders who don't care about role playing, puzzles, etc. to MD and scare off people who are into real role playing. Just great...
I'm actually one of those who do some role playing in Wind's Sanctuary and I appreciate the fact that I can concentrate on that and socializing without the need to watch out for being trashed by some tokened stat grinder.
There is too much fighting in MD already!
Isn't WoW enough? Don't make MD another mindless hack & slash.

[dst]

[quote name='HeHelpedMe' timestamp='1291990695' post='75044']
.
I appreciate the fact that I can concentrate on that and socializing without the need to watch out for being trashed by some tokened stat grinder.
There is too much fighting in MD already!
[/quote]


Get ride of your creatures and nobody will EVER bother you AGAIN.

[Sephirah Caelum]

Since I'm a noob, is a bit risky to say what fits or not with MD reality, but this is my opinion on the matter:

From what I read in the announcements about the Days of Tranquillity, it seems this day is related with the night. I don't see connection with the cicle of night with a no sanctuary day, the day is already the currently day of MD, with the sanctuaries.

From my point of view, the use of an item/spell capable to break sanctuaries, would be much more interesting, and would fit better.

But well, well, what know I?

[HeHelpedMe]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1291991374' post='75045']
Get ride of your creatures and nobody will EVER bother you AGAIN.
[/quote]

A typical aggressive reply from you, dst. No manners at all.
That's my first and last time when I directly reply to your rude and pointless messages.
You're a person who is truly capable of putting people off MD Forum and MagicDuel itself.
I didn't say that I don't want to fight ever again and never meant that. That's obvious.
I just wanted to say that Sanctuaries are a very important part of MD and there should be no messing with it. Especially with preposterous ideas like "no logout button".
What you offer is that I got rid of all my creatures.
So, dst, you're a moderator here and also a LHO?
Oh goodness...

[Shadowseeker]

And as a Mod I will say that it's you being overly aggressive now.

What's more, the post you made regarding this idea, was also overly aggressive.

[HeHelpedMe]

Edit: Whatever. Nevermind.

Edited January 6, 2011 by HeHelpedMe

[Tarquinus]

Right... back on subject...

The idea of a no-sanctuary day has merit. Yes, it would probably drive people to log out. But it might keep players on their toes; it might be fun. I don't think the idea should be discarded out of hand. We can look at Heads and see that player login rate tends to drop during that contest, but that doesn't ensure that a no-sanctuary day would have the precise same effect, especially if it were somewhat random.

A little bit of chaos would be good.

HeHelpedMe - I am a player who values dueling [b]and[/b] roleplaying. I think the hazardous nature of life in MagicDuel adds something to the in-character experience as long as you are willing to interpret the fighting system as "real" in some sense or another. I get frustrated with people who have no use for roleplaying, but I also get frustrated with people who see roleplaying as something discrete [separate] from the fighting system.

MagicDuel is always evolving, but there has been a "sink or swim" aspect to it for the entire time I've been playing, which is about 2.5 years now. If you are polite and earnest, you will find many players willing to help you hone your combat skills. Tokens do change the dynamics of fighting, but there are ways to advance without using them, and if you stick around long enough you're certain to get a usefully tokened creature one way or another. Don't let frustration get the better of you. The combat system is constantly improving, and to me it is a very exciting and constantly evolving process.

[HeHelpedMe]

Edit: Whatever. Nevermind.

Edited January 6, 2011 by HeHelpedMe

[Tarquinus]

I'm glad to hear it. I was responding to what you say here:

[quote]So, basically, you want to attract more god-modders who don't care about role playing, puzzles, etc. to MD and scare off people who are into real role playing. Just great...
I'm actually one of those who do some role playing in Wind's Sanctuary and I appreciate the fact that I can concentrate on that and socializing without the need to watch out for being trashed by some tokened stat grinder.
There is too much fighting in MD already! [/quote]
In my view, a good roleplayer can assimilate the grinders as part of the environment. I understand what you mean about the nuisance value of constantly being attacked, but I encourage you to test the limits of your characterization.

Really, the idea of a no-sanctuary day shouldn't put you off permanently. The idea is one or two days out of a month. That's not excessive, is it?

[Fyrd Argentus]

How about making it a special spell or something instead of system-wide? DST needs something to spend all those wp's on....

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

This idea has come up, it appears, as an opposite to balance Tranquility days.

On a roleplay level, T-days are the mechanical function of night which is the opposition to standard fighting days which are the mechanical function of Day. Kafuuka has already said this.

On a more base level, non T-days are not the opposite to T-days due to the percentages involved. On a heads day anyone can be attacked in a sanctuary once they have 7+ heads, what is the opposite to this? there isn't one. On standard days you can fight everywhere except a few locations and there are far more standard days than sanctuary days.

A more accurate opposite would be to have few locations you could fight as opposed to none - but that isn't the argment or request here. This seems far more an excuse for vet MP5s who want to grind than anything else.

Z

[awiiya]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1291991374' post='75045']
Get ride of your creatures and nobody will EVER bother you AGAIN.
[/quote]

I agree with her here. I am one of the few active MD players who has done this, and I can honestly tell you that I don't have any idea of when Heads, Torch, or Tranquility days are. Every day is a day of Tranquility - and even more sweet because I myself have created it.

Awi

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' timestamp='1292009724' post='75074']This seems far more an excuse for vet MP5s who want to grind than anything else.
[/quote]
It does have the seeming of that, I agree. I was thinking earlier that MP5 grinders have done much to create the atmosphere of hit-and-run, scamper-between-sanctuaries tactics. It's conceivable that rather than requesting special free-for-all days with no safe zones, those players might turn their creative energies toward making MP5 more hospitable, or at the very least more fun for a broader spectrum of players. Burns's Fight Club is a good initiative of this sort, and as I think Lightsage noted the majority of MP5 vets do keep simple defensive rituals set.

But hospitality does not seem to be what is wanted, and the law of the jungle prevails. I don't have a problem with that, because after all I was hammered into shape by merciless players, and you can learn something from the losses that don't kill your entire ritual in round 0.

I don't see the no-sanctuary day proposition as a balancing measure, but rather a potentially fun randomizing occurrence in the MD world. If the player community can be motivated to make it an entertaining occurrence - for example, the 7-heads rule that nullifies sanctuary protection during the HC - it could be a good thing. Plenty of reasons have been offered as to why it very likely would [i]not[/i] be a good thing; I merely wanted to hear more discussion on the topic itself.

[Peace]

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1292010663' post='75075']
I agree with her here. I am one of the few active MD players who has done this, and I can honestly tell you that I don't have any idea of when Heads, Torch, or Tranquility days are. Every day is a day of Tranquility - and even more sweet because I myself have created it.

Awi
[/quote]

Just a side note.

I am with Awiiya and dst on this one. I may have proposed the idea but I am about to be one of those left with no creatures at all soon (hence why I am selling them).

But I want to thank you all for sharing your opinions on this.

Edited December 10, 2010 by DarkPriestess

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Tarquinus' timestamp='1292023694' post='75089']
But hospitality does not seem to be what is wanted, and the law of the jungle prevails. I don't have a problem with that, because after all I was hammered into shape by merciless players, and you can learn something from the losses that don't kill your entire ritual in round 0.
[/quote]
Either back then they used smaller hammers or you were built from a sturdier metal than the people who say that mp5 is broken or unfair or boring or whatever. But as you say, let's stay on topic. After two months, this is the status:

Those in favor have given two reasons:
1. It will allow mp5s to find targets easier
2. It is 'balanced'
Those against have said that:
1. There is a log-out button
2. There is neither RP nor grind mechanical balance in the proposition.

The only new thing you add is that it 'could be fun just like the 7-head rule is'. Someone said fewer people log in during heads - I haven't bothered counting but it doesn't surprise me - so this falls perfectly under objection 1. You can wish for pro arguments all you want, we won't be making them for you even if we could.

[Tarquinus]

I'm content to let it die, then. I don't grind, and when I am more involved in dueling it is mainly to work my way back toward balance.

I don't accept the proposition that no-sanctuary days are 'balanced'. As far as I am concerned the only reason to adopt them is to provide MP5 players with more targets, and as I have said I do think the onus is on those who want more targets to be less ruthless. You might think of it as analogous to responsible hunting in the 'real world' - it is possible to hunt too aggressively, and if you hunt your prey to extinction you have only yourself to blame.