No More Torch Competition For Allianceless Mp3S And Mp4S

[No one]

Pro's and con's are many, and many more are the ppl that don't see them all (neither do I consider that I do).
Since it appeared thought about this TC as a possibility for abuses.

Nicest ideas would be:

1. Any MP (MP3 & MP4 included) should not participate in TC unless they can be attacked by another with torch no matter what MP.
The consequences should be supported by the carrier.
This would fix most of the abuse-ability of this contest and I mean that MP1,2,6,7 will all be included in this.

2. Limit this contest to ppl that have been at least once in an alliance.
This would limit a lot of alts from being used.
Also, the responsibility of them being in TC is falling on those alliances.
And this will work nicely with #1

[CrazyMike]

Rstrict the MP3 and MP4.

Its a competition, not an open day for noobs.

If there is no restriction, allow no MP restriction. Lets see if the noob wants the risk of getting their a** kicked!

[Jubaris]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1285337899' post='69019']

LE:I never said UG is neutral.Yes, it doesn't have more then 2-3 individuals and I intend to keep it like this unless I find players that suit my needs (but this isn't anyone's business). Leadership? Why? Plan on running for king of UG?
[/quote]

maybe I will, just to annoy you
my point is that no neutral land has a leader for now, and underground is the only one privileged to have the space at Torch competition (and with that treasury). I would like to hear the explanation about it's status

You shouldn't take it that personally, if I am curios about something that has relations with you, it doesn't mean it's cause of you
The point is that one of your "solutions" to this issue is that you gain ability to recruit citizens, which effectively makes you a queen of underground, which leads me to question the nature and motive of this whole topic

Edited September 25, 2010 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Tipu]

But if u stop mp3 and mp4 from participating TC,
the Score board will read like:

MD 0
LR 0
GG 0
Necro 0

U have to kill at least one opponent in order to score one point
when Mp5 players can't find targets in normal days how they r going find MP5 players with Torches
Remember the best way to defend a land is by not participating in TC.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Tipu

[Shadowseeker]

As it is now, the mp5 cannot hit mp3, mp4 either, so that's no valid point tipu..read up please?

[Firsanthalas]

Should it not be a point of consideration that you are actively discussing how people only enter TC to get to areas they normally can't and how that highlights how messed up TC is?
Its not even a competition really, its more of a farce. Simply removing one or more MP levels won't fix it. It will simply stop them from access to areas.
Maybe you should analyse the main problem, rather than trying to fix side affects?

[Jester]

The main problem isn't being fixed, so it'd be nice to fix the side effects. Tell you what, I'll help you guys out. MP3 who enter Necrovion with a torch will be capped, for MP4 I'll think up more creative things.

[goldfinger earthicus]

maye there is a side effect that mp3 and mp4 would not like.. make it any torch bearer can be attacked.. may make them think twice before picking up a torch and wandering anywhere..

[Chewett]

It depends what you think needs to be done with Torch Contest.

Do you want only alliance and land members participating - limit to land and ally members - different mindpowers allow alts
Do you only want mp5 so its a "real" contest - limit mp5 - there are less mp5's who give a damn

I think that making all be attackable will mean lower level people can act like cannon fodder (be the target) and allow for more stragety. I really like this idea since it opens the field up

[Pipstickz]

So that MP3s can easily be capped or given negative EXP by MP5s? All it takes is one person who feels like messing up an MP3, then we have the whole february incident again, but with a lesser chance of tracing it back.

[Udgard]

Sorry, I'm getting a bit lost here.
What was the original issue again? That allied Mp3s/MP4s cannot be attacked by MP5s during TC (thus no way to defend against them), or that mp3s are using TC as a tool to "sight-see"? Can someone kindly remind me?

[Fyrd Argentus]

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1285920640' post='69446']
Sorry, I'm getting a bit lost here.
What was the original issue again? That allied Mp3s/MP4s cannot be attacked by MP5s during TC (thus no way to defend against them), or that mp3s are using TC as a tool to "sight-see"? Can someone kindly remind me?
[/quote]

Is this rhetorical? DST recommended curtailing the privleges now afforded to unallied mp3-mp4 in HC.

Many people pointed out that HC is way too broken to fix this way - why rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic?

[Kamisha]

In my personal opinion I beleve the only way to fix the torch compatition is to limit it to people who have a land. There is really no point in participating without one other than the reason you have fun moving one space per regen and being trapped in enemy territory. The abuse of the torch compatition is an on going problem and likely there is no TRUE fix for it and there never will be. For people that are worried that the score board will read all zeros it does not really matter. Though MP4's and 3's if they choose to pick up a torch should be able to be attacked. Limiting them from picking one up is just not a good idea. It has to be open to them and they will quit after a few tries meeting failier.

Just restrict it to people that at the moment have a land its the most logical answer. Alliance is also part of a land so they stay too. The main thing to take away from this is. People enter the compitition at there own risk. If they lose or get lucky its how the game is played live with it. It is not unfair becouse you are open to do the same things as your opponent.

[Curiose]

I agree with Kamisha on this one.

For people who have an ally or a land, it seems more fitting that they would fight for their 'home.' A lot of mp3s an mp4s [from my knowledge,] do not have such a thing. In my experience in starting with Torch the first time, the only torch I could really get to was the one in Winds Sanctuary.

I am not sure if that is how a lot of other non-allied people do it, but I think it would add more equality to the board.

With the issue of mp3s and 4s actually competing in the contest and being capped by mp5s, I think that if they really want to go for the gold, and test their skills, [and are not an alt], then they should be able to. Their brazenness will be their benefit or their downfall, depending on how they play their cards.

If such a thing were to be implemented, I do think that there should be a disclaimer basically stating that for younger players who are wanting to test their skills, they need to know the risks involved and cannot hold anyone accountable for competing in the contest as well.

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1285961261' post='69474']
If such a thing were to be implemented, I do think that there should be a disclaimer basically stating that for younger players who are wanting to test their skills, they need to know the risks involved and cannot hold anyone accountable for competing in the contest as well.
[/quote]
Which could be done fairly easily with a confirmation pop-up.

[Laphers]

Maybe I'm missing something but I've always felt that Mur designed, and continues to design this game to encourage people to explore and to learn, and to test limits and push themselves to new levels. Topics like this are always about putting restrictions on people which I think defeats that purpose. I wonder if our time would be better served discussing ways to develop the game rather than restrict it?

[Harion]

actually, the game was designed to filter, not to let in
i hope you get the idea

[Curiose]

@ Kyphis: Yes, it could easily be done with a pop-up.

I think it holds legitimacy in this circumstance, really. If a younger player gets upset for capped or for losing, in some cases, then they have no one to blame but their self. I think that with this exception, instead of just allowing allies and citizens fight, it will allow more strategic players to show their stuff.

[Novato]

[quote name='Laphers' timestamp='1286000477' post='69495']
Maybe I'm missing something but I've always felt that Mur designed, and continues to design this game to encourage people to explore and to learn, and to test limits and push themselves to new levels. Topics like this are always about putting restrictions on people which I think defeats that purpose. I wonder if our time would be better served discussing ways to develop the game rather than restrict it?
[/quote]

I agree completelly

Come on people, capped ever mp3 and mp4 that saw a landscape? Nobody think that this is a little overreacting?

Once I asked a player how much days I need to wait until the angiens eggs hatch and he answer by PM, then people who don't want spoiler don't get it. Should I get banned for this little thing?

Besides, here http://magicduel.com/img/screenshots/magiwb002.jpg you can see a knator in maximum level. Why this should be called publicity and soo many other things spoiler? If one information don't give you or don't have the potential to give you in game advantages, who care?

Do you all really thing that impose by force your way of play will gather and keep more players in MD?

Is that all just because a spoiler or there is any bug behind it?

[dst]

You all don't get it, don't you?
Spoilers are at the bottom of the list when it comes to this TC.
It's all about the contest. It is NOT a contest because nobody cares! Why? Cause you can't play it as long as mp3s and mp4s play it and we as mp5s cannot attack them. Also, one of the most important things: TC was RUINED by alts. Alts that are..well, guess? Yes! Mp3s and mp4s! So please thank the ones that used and are still using alts to gain advantages in this contest.

@Novato: you cannot see the forest because of the trees! That is MEANT to be a spoiler, a preview if you like. If you put it that way then mp2 should have NEVER EVER existed. But it still exists, even if it's not playable right now.


Hope I was clear enough. If not I will draw it for you.

[Firsanthalas]

@dst,

I don't even think alts are an issue anymore. It seems that nobody enters the contest judging by the extremely low scores the past few months.
Aside from that, I'll give you a list of problems that has already appeared on the forums.

1. Distances to travel are uneven.
2. Access to lands. Some lands have one point of entry, while others have more.
3. The current setup is to be frank dumb. If a land has two very powerful fighters and nobody else, then it will be very hard to score against. Assuming that the rules were that you could only take a torch of your own land, then two people defending a land would in theory be able to hoover up masses of torches heading their way, while in return the land attacking them would only be able to score two points. Also, if a land doesn't opt to pick up torches, then it won't be scored against.
Now, I know that is not 100% true, as you could attack another land torch carrier, but you get the idea.
I think that one possible way would be to change the scoring. Allow a person to simply walk into an enemy scoring zone and score a point, with no fight needed. However, if you do defeat an enemy torch carrier then you get 3 points or something for each torch you get.
4. Negative scores is a seriously bad idea. If you have a negative score, then there is no incentive to try to get out of it. You can argue that there is, but really, there isn't.

Maybe a central point for torches could help? Like each pillar on the GOE gives a torch for each land? Just throwing out an idea.

[Yrthilian]

What dst has put forward here has merit

I agree with her on this and there are not too many things i find myself agreeing with her on
But still MP3 is a learning stage beeing in the TC forces them to have to move up a level it is like forcing a player to
the next MP and in other topic this was fround upon by many.

The fact is this is a comition created for player to honor their lands, As an mp3 you are normaly a new and young player
the TC in essence would be far to advanced for them (i meen no offence to MP3's in that statment)
for the ones who choose to stay at MP3 for what ever reasion that is their choice.

MP4 is also still a learnig stage but i dont know it the should not be allowd to take part.

I also agree that ONLY Alliance member should be allowed to take part
Yes i would think citizens should be allowed but currently the system does not allow for that
ablity. Could be something to suggest

I also think only alliance from the land should be only allowed to gather their own torch and not others.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1286288139' post='69704']
I also think only alliance from the land should be only allowed to gather their own torch and not others.
[/quote]

One small issue with that. Loreroot for exampls sake has more alliances (4?) than for example underground which only has one. this is rather unfair if the fight is limited to alliances. Some people might want to fight for their land but are not eligible for an alliance.

[Novato]

@DST

It's ok, I know that there are few people who take part in TC. But, some agree just because of spoiler issue and I don't want that things escaloneted to a what I don't see as a good thing, in my opinion of course. I still think that capped players is overreacting, but I now that it was not in your post.

[Firsanthalas]

Actually, its 3 alliances and 2 guilds. Although the two guilds seem to be dead at the moment.
But, as I already said Chewy, numbers actually count for very little under the current setup and as I also said, they can be a disadvantage.