Nex

that's what i was thinking too.... before you answered (part of) my last questions. [quote]As for who's creature it takes, it's weakest creature selected first. In which case there is one of the same creature on both parties, it's a 50/50 chance your creature gets selected. It will work for neither parties.[/quote] since you at no point implied that reviving works on your creatures too, i assumed that you meant the normal soul heal, i.e. stealing 200 VE from enemy, healing a creature. now, in this paragraph you seem to say that the recipent of those 200 VE will be the weakest creature, no matter on which side. if not this, what else did you mean with the quoted paragraph? i have to admit that i haven't had, at any moment in this discussion, the feeling of fully understanding your concept, partly due to the (seemingly?) contradicting answers

yes, the mirror fights with the stats of the enemy creature it copies, including the enemies influences. your profile influence has no effect on it. imagine a battle with a single maxed mirror, target strong, plus your entire stats: too powerful setting a lone, single mirror [i]can[/i] be beneficial though, for adding 100% of your profile VE to it and to avoid target multi. it can be used to counter supercharged token beasts, but it shouldn't be [i]too[/i] strong against a decently planned and balanced ritual

actually, in the initial description of the aura she excplicitely speaks of reviving [b]enemy[/b] creatures [quote]Special influences [animasalve] Takes enemy vitality and uses it to heal other creatures, but not on itself. Steals 200 vitality. If enemy creatures are dying, it steals 200 [color="#0000FF"]VE from[/color] allied creatures and heals the enemy targets.[/quote] (blue text added by me) she later explained that it steals the 200 VE from the creature that killed the enemy creature when the aura activates and that this effect has a 2 turn cooldown. if i got what she said right, it normaly steals 200 VE from an enemy creature and gives it to the weakest creature, no matter on which side, with a 50/50 chance if both players have an equally weak creature. i guess that's what you meant.

yeah, true. it's more likely than not to get 3 maxed mirrors to copy 3 enemy creatures (thats why i said it depends on th exact setup). do you regard that as a potential balancing problem, and if yes, what would be your suggested solution?

[quote name='Shadowseeker' date='15 July 2009 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1247653490' post='37116'] [b]IMPORTANT[/b] Unless people say they want their silver (and possible WP) I assume they want the drach. [/quote] no need to post for those of us who want a roll for the drachorn, only for those who want their reward.

[quote][b]Guybrush[/b] Doesn't matter how much Ve it steals, it gives you at least another round fighting, which is pretty huge, and on top of that it hurts the enemies. Seems over strong, though if you put a cool down on it's ability it may be ok. I definitely like the concept. Needs to be fleshed out a great deal more though.[/quote] don't forget: it benefits the enemy most, not the user it can give a [i]creature[/i] a second chance, but not necessarily a second round, nor necessarily letting you survive an additional round. while the idea of the aura is potentially interesting i wouldn't say it's too powerful. actually, i wouldn't assume to see people use it too often case 1: [b]you using the gem[/b] unless it's meant to 'revive' your creatures (as opposed to 'heal' like the desription says) you will not get a second round anyway. the description only speaks of reviving enemy creatures. if it's meant to revive your own creatures too: see case 2 and apply the logic to case 1 case 2: [b]strong enemy using the gem[/b] the enemy has all hitters and would be able to beat you in one round (not necessarily round zero or round one, just in the timespan of one round). the aura triggers after your first creature is killed and revives it. your opponent then proceeds the carnage until all of your creatures are dead. no second round. [b]equally strong or weaker enemy using the gem[/b] your first creature that gets killed gets another chance at 200VE, but can potentially be killed in the same round again. if the fight lasts long enough for the aura to recharge, another creature can get this second chance. it IS useful... if the enemy uses it. [quote]Miidorii It will NEVER activate if it is on weaken defense. No, what I mean by recharge, is, it will say "no target found, skipping turn," for two turns REGARDLESS if there is a dead creature. As for who's creature it takes, it's weakest creature selected first. In which case there is one of the same creature on both parties, it's a 50/50 chance your creature gets selected. It will work for neither parties.[/quote] ok, it always heals the weakest creature. weakest as in 'with the lowest VE' or as in 'target weak'? that means if the enemy has the 'weakest' creature it would just redistribute the VE in his/her rit without you getting anything. then why would anybody use the gem instead of an elemental? on a sidenote, since its not stated explicitely, i assume it would work like steal life rather than like heal, in that it could heal a creature above its max VE. btw, you didn't answer if it selects the enemy creature from which to take the VE randomly or as per the target it was set to. i guess if it can't steal from an enemy with less than 200 VE, it also wouldn't revive an enemy that was killed by a creature of 200 VE or less. and one last thing: you already have recruiting and upgrade costs for it, but it still needs its basic stats (attack, defense and initiative. no power since soul heal and aura aren't power based) my current concern is that, depending on its stats, people would either use it as an early weaken def if its stronger than ele I / archers or not at all, since the benefit for its soul heal / animasalve is greatest for the enemy and potentially nonexisting for you.

yep. while you give up acting immediately in using multiple mirrors, you can (depending on the exact enemy setup) copy 4 targets with certainty if the enemy uses no mirrors, 2 if s/he uses at least 1. that would mean strong players too could benefit from setting a mirror to reduce the number of copied creatures. if its worth a creature slot for them is a question of personal strategy.

how about F11 or control + minus?

*breathing slowly and deeply, i calm my mind, resisting the urge to question yon former post regarding its topic relevance, for this would be pointless and mean* disregard that, i'm joking --------------- ok, i was just irritated by the design then so the soul heal ability is an activator/placeholder for the aura. my new batch of thoughts and questions: now, if it's set to weaken defense, the enemy will never benefit from it since the aura is only active at soul heal. also, unless an enemy dies the effect is activated when the creature gets its turn to steal 200VE from an enemy creature. assuming that the stronger player is faster and will steal 200 VE from the weaker enemy, s/he can then happily slaughter enemy creatures since the aura has to recharge or does it only have to recharge to survive enemy creatures? and will it stop working while recharging altogether (for you and for the enemy) or will it keep working for you? aslo, would anything special happen if it kills an enemy by stealing its last 200 VE? also also, have you for potential higher levels thought of increasing the value for soul heal at a fixed rate or based on power? [EDIT: small additions, "RP" ]

yes, in case it gets a mirror on the first try at target weak, it would then target a weak non-mirror. [b] multiple mirrors targeting weak / strong:[/b] i'm not certain though if weak is absolut, i.e. if all would target THE weakest creature, or if several creatures can be classified as 'weak'. if it's the first (which is the most likely) they would copy 1. only the weakest creature if they had targeted a mirror before, since all would chose a mirror first and then the weakest non-mirror, resulting in doing nothing. 2.the 2 weakest creatures if the enemy had no mirror, since the first mirror would target the weakest and the second would target the next weakest. all additional mirrors would try the weakest first, then the next weakest and would ultimately do nothing. the same would be true for target strong. thinking about it, it's actually a good thing since it prevents 'climbing up the ladder' to the next weakest, and the one after that etc, till they had copied all creatures. in the later case of a 'field' classified as weak or strong i guess it would randomly chose a creature with that classification and do nothing if it can't find any valid targets anymore. so due to the last level having target strong, weak and random you could copy 2 creatures with certainty. a strong and a weak creature (or either strong or weak and a random creature). chosing another strong/weak would result in doing nothing. chosing another random target can, with a slight chance, also result in doing nothing if it tries to target both of the copied creatures. for each additional mirror the risk of doing nothing increases. sidenote: many potential problems seem to revolve around multiple mirrors. how about a limit of 3 instead of 1 or 6+? good chance for valid targets, no certainty though. also no cheap attempts to copy complete rituals

oh, just a minor detail: martirism is powered by exactly that (power), instead of attack. do you want it to have power equal to attack or rather set different values for each ability?

true, i completely ignored weaken defense in my example it's only useless for round zero wins, since the ABARU normally attacks before your weakeners, but if you plan for a round 1 or 2 win when weaken def kicked in, it is indeed a pretty strong ability. what more can i say, i like it. also, thanks for this elaborate demonstration of basic maths

a few questions for clarity: (the description is either a little ambiguous or i'm a little slow today. if its the later, bear with me ) [quote]Targets: random, dying Abilities: soul heal, weaken defence Actions of this unit are performed on enemy player and allied targets Special influences [animasalve] Takes enemy vitality and uses it to heal other creatures, but not on itself. Steals 200 vitality. If enemy creatures are dying, it steals 200 allied creatures and heals the enemy targets.[/quote] does that mean that either weaken defense is used on a random dying enemy creature OR the animasalve aura is used? or both at once? does the aura description just explain what the ability does or does the ability do something else? will it take 200 VE each round and will it be from the creature that was targetted by weaken def? does 'dying' mean the same as target dying (less than full VE), or when an enemy creature is actually destroyed? if the former, it would steal your own VE each time as long as the enemy has a injured creature, or would it steal both once from you and once from the enemy? since healers are obsoleted pretty fast a healer/'life stealer with a twist' combo sounds pretty interesting. keep at it

i will re-state my question of the old thread, this time with some numbers: [quote][u]Guybrush:[/u] Twin Strikes, attacks twice in one round, the second coming at the point where a tenth of it's initiative would place it in the round order, [b]each hit does 1/10th of it's attack stat in damage[/b][/quote] [quote][u]MRV:[/u] how is inflicting 2/10th of your normal damage output, with delay, better than say inflicting 10/10th right away?[/quote] i disregarded enemy defense back then, it would actually be less effective: say it has 1000 attack including influence. the creature it attacks has 50 defense including influence. normal attack: 1000 - 50 = 950 damage twin strike: since it does damage equal to 1/10th of its stat per hit, it would be (100 - 50) + (100 - 50) = 100 damage with delay. if you mean it inflicts damage regardless of enemy defense it still seems underpowered, but may have its niches. if i still didn't get what you actually meant, please elaborate. aside from this unclearity i think its a good concept

[quote]As was stated earlier, if you have six you would just completely copy the opponents ritual. Then you just need to make sure you have more Ve. A person with 6 mirrors and more Ve then the person they attacked would pretty inevitably win.[/quote] maybe it ws a little ambiguous: (bold word is added for clarity) a mirror cannot copy another mirror, nor a creature that is copied by another mirror. if it tries to copy either of them, it will select another randomly chosen [b]potentially[/b] valid creature (not an empty slot, not another mirror). if it connot find a valid target, it does nothing. -> the mirror will first try to chose a random creature amongst all creatures the enemy is using in the ritual. if the enemy uses 4 creatures (including mirors), it will target any of the 4, but no empty slot. if it tries to target a mirror or an already copied creature, it will chose another potentially valid target: this time neither empty slots nor mirrors, but it could still chose another already copied creature (which is very likely in the case of 6 mirrors) and thus do nothing. if the above doesn't convince you, would you rather go for a single mirror per account rule, the proposed 10% stat hit per mirror used or an altogether new restriction?

i share the general opinion about tokens. while i like the idea of tokens a lot, i think the values need tweaking. reducing the ratio at which they give stats, while a good idea, drives the rally for the highest principles ad infinitum. diminishing returns* could slow it down and/or a cap for maximal boni could stop it. *like: 1/3 statbonus per principle ratio for the first 100 principle points, 1/5 ratio from 101-1000, 1/10 for 1001-5000, 1/50 for 5001+

[u]availability:[/u] a vaild concern guybrush. people without mirror would be at the same disadvantage at which they are now, thats why i was hoping it could be a commonly available creature. having a mirror doesn't stop you from using one-hitters, the other person having a mirror would [u]copying auras?:[/u] interesting thought... i originally wanted it to copy all influences the mirrored creature is benefitting from, but not the auras themself. i thought that would be overpowered (and a hell to code). but thinking about it, maybe the last levels 'perfect mirror' should copy them too? [u]about VE: [/u] how about giving the earlier levels a little more VE to make them more useful in balanced fights where both players have approximately equal strenght, and reducing the final levels VE due to its first strike. [u]about multiple mirrors/ first strike:[/u] i agree with both of you, if there were to be more than one mirror per ritual, they shouldn't all have the ability to "attack immediately", nor should they copy the same creature. it's an improvised solution, but what would you think of the following: a single mirror will act immediately, but if there is more than one in the same ritual they will each act with their copied stats. also, a mirror cannot copy another mirror, nor a creature that is copied by another mirror. if it tries to copy either of them, it will select another randomly chosen [i]potentially valid creature[/i] (not an empty slot, not another mirror). if it connot find a valid target, it does nothing. if it tries to target another already copied creature, it also does nothing. -> this should deal with the problem of using too many of them, since a single mirror is attractive for its first strike, yet 2 or 3 against a very strong player can still help a lot (i'm assuming that if 2 or more creature have the exact same initiative, it will be randomly decided who will go first, thus it's a gamble). using too many mirrors is discouraged by the risk of not finding a valid target. (if the benefit of multiple mirrors would still outweight the drawbacks by far, maybe reduce the stats of each copy by 10% per mirror in the ritual. i.e. the last level will start at 110% stats reduced by 10% for itself and by another 10% for each additional mirror. i'm not a big fan of this myself, but it's a possible tweak) [EDIT: edited for clarity]

awww, not slaying the innocent dwarf to steal his gold potentially costed both the heroic act's spell doc (appreciate the irony ) and the WP for 10 silver (have 7). well, i'm not complaining. it was a fun concept, but the lack of any 'drachorn' related actions during the drachorn hunt struck me as a little odd.

the way i understood it, it means that if this aura kicks in the soldier will attack first and "fall out" of the usual attack order, rather than going again in the same round whithin the attack order. if that's the case, i think the aura does actually nothing. (it could be coding-wise necessary to check if the aura was activated to ensure the attack order isn't messed up by it, but it has no "function" as in battle effect or strategy)

first to the concern of using them en masse. i propossed that every account should be limited to a single morpher, for pretty much the reasons lib pointed out. it should make people rethink their setups, encourage them to experiment again, not be the new uber-creature one of the things i had in mind when designing it was that it could counter creatures that can kill anything (including their own rituals ) with a single blow. the mirror having the ability to attack immediately (but only at the start of the battle) makes the use of such hyper-charged creatures a risk, rather than a no-brainer. it is mainly for this purpose that i considered the "limited first strike", but if you can provide some examples why you think it's gamebreaking i'll try my best to tweak it. [EDIT, to reply to libs last post: yeah, that exactly [u]is[/u] the point of the creature: encouraging a change of habits, new ritual setups. for example, if the stat- and creature-wise weaker player has higher VE, you might want to set a mixed ritual of strong weakeners, decent attackers and lifestealers. of course that could be what the opponent was preparing for in the first place. it's more dynamic an experienced player may still have the upper hand overall, but it doesn't have to be granted that s/he'll win.] thanks for the comments and critisism, please keep it comming

the initial thought was that it copies exactly what the enemy creature is set to. but chosing an action randomly could be an interesting option for one of the levels. will think about it

i'm still working on it, but since a similiar idea was mentioned in another thread i might as well toss mine out for you all to toy around with it's designed to potentially have big influence on battles without being gamebreaking. limiting the number of mirrors per account is considered lest they become vastly overused. [b]Morphing Ooze[/b] creat desc: a lump of animated ooze. without a real form itself, it roughly mimiks things in its surrounding. target: single random ability: distorted mirror (when the battle starts it will copy a randomly selected enemy creature, then it will use the copied creatures target and ability) VE: 300 other stats are copyed from enemy creature (the copy will have 60% of the stats of the enemy creature, [b]including[/b] stats from auras, tokens and profile-influence) [b]Shifting Blob[/b] creat desc: the blob gained a primitive conciousness. it starts to copy shapes with more detail. target: single random ability: distorted mirror (when the battle starts it will copy a randomly selected enemy creature, then it will use the copied creatures target and ability) VE: 600 other stats are copyed from enemy creature (the copy will have 70% of the stats of the enemy creature, [b]including[/b] stats from auras, tokens and profile-influence) [b]Reflecting Shape[/b] creat desc: after copying a couple of shapes, it begins to enjoy the constant changes. it developed a preferrence for motion, rather than static shapes. the ever-changing surface reflects light. target: single random ability: mirror (it copies a randomly selected enemy creature like the former levels. but instead of keeping this shape throughout the entire battle it will copy a new randomly selected creature each round) VE: 1000 other stats are copyed from enemy creature (the copy will have 80% of the stats of the enemy creature, [b]including[/b] stats from auras, tokens and profile-influence) [b]Malevolent Mirror[/b] creat desc: tired of its ever shifting state, it slumbers in a smooth oval shape, like a mirror. knowing that it is without a true form, it envies those whose bodily shapes are defined. it reflects an eerie, hateful image of whoever looks inside, and will assume the viewers shape to destroy him. target: single random, single weak, single strong ability: perfect mirror (when the battle starts it will copy the selected enemy creature. once the shape is chosen it will [i]immediately[/i] attack with the enemies ability / target) VE: 1800 other stats are copyed from enemy creature (the copy will have 100% of the stats of the enemy creature, [b]including[/b] stats from auras, tokens and profile-influence. it always attacks first in the first round and with the copied creatures initiative in every following round. if multiple mirrors are used in the same ritual, all of them lose the ability to act immediately) ----------------------------------- i'll probably tweak it and add more details later, but that's the rough concept so far. especially the last level could pose a nice threat to those who attack with forces they couldn't survive themself it could potentially benefit newer and weaker players a lot, since it copies the enemy creatures stats along with its shape. awaiting (constructive) criticism [EDIT: slightly tweaked the VE values, updated to current state of discussion]

if the answer to your question was a clear "no" you would have spoiled it now anyway generally i'd say it's ok to answer such questions in-game per pm, but not necessarily on the forum... (and that's comming from me, one of those who are pretty open handed with info )

happy b-day!

[quote][aura pull] this creature makes enemy-auras target Earth Elemental[/quote] and with "any aura" you mean freeze or is it even meant to drain the beneficial auras (creature boost, morale, etc) from enemies? you have limited the aura pull to 2 auras, but counting as 2 slots it still has a 1/18 chance to block any additional freezes. (level 5, while not having the aura pull, has a 1/6 chance to 'catch' additional freezes). one strenght that seems to be disguised as weakness is that by potentially catching multiple steal lifes (diminishing returns ) it protects the VE of other creatures, even more so because it is the first to get damaged and will have less VE than the others. [edit: also, counting as 2 slots means it would get double stats (=def) from your profile, so it will take some more time to weaken it] anyway, i can definately see its uses and think it's an interesting idea. (it's a creature idea... you know i have to comment it )