Kriskah Arcanu

You had permission from the artists to submit their art as your own? As I recall you wanted to open a market of avatars too. Did you had their permission to do so too? I appologize. I dont want to attak who is already down, it is not my intention to do so, but I believe these are valid questions. K

I found this a long time ago but since i wasnt sure about Fenrir gender... "Druid sketch" by Rachel Kremer [url="http://images.google.com.mx/imgres?imgurl=http://www.elfwood.com/art/r/a/rachelkremer/druid_sketch.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.elfwood.com/~rachelkremer/Druid_sketch.3140297.html&usg=__qDgoqQZ22ikWGbSS9zaxFUGYPWc=&h=916&w=600&sz=93&hl=es&start=9&tbnid=vA3iOMlrS8TdmM:&tbnh=147&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddruid%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Des%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:es-ES:official%26sa%3DG"]http://images.google.com.mx/imgres?imgurl=...ficial%26sa%3DG[/url]

When I started with this whole idea of a marketplace for MD, it was mostly a new RP activity to be included on the game, that’s it. It was a simple project. When people gain interest in the marketplace, this matter gain so much complexity so it is quite hard to keep track of all the ideas an argumentations about currency, item creation and their properties. It is good in terms of debate, I am not complaining I truly enjoy this discussion and I hope Mur find it interesting too, but again, since there is no agreement, the debate increases the difficult for the market implementation. For now I’ll invite you, like I did before to symbolically establish just a few parameters for the trading so we can actually have an item’s marketplace on MD. Items, for now, (since they have no properties added yet) have only the value we want to give them, apparently silver coins too (since they are worthless to some people) so it can be done. Again, as a merchan I deffinitly won't pay for over-priced items, if they are so expensive I will asume they are very important for the character roll, so they better stay where they are. So i won't pay 20 MDS for an item. Equilibrium of wealth is also needed, nevertheless I won't be asking collecters to stop collecting. I think that is not my roll. I will just keep promoting the spread of the MDS so everyone can buy items on the MD's Market, even if they are new to the game.

[quote name='awiiya' post='30618' date='May 8 2009, 02:02 PM']Oh, I like the idea of getting bronze, but I think it might push the game TOO much towards a currency. There is a reason why heat is not being used as currency, it is far too easy to get. And as for the value of silver and gold, I myself will never accept silver OR gold for anything I have to sell. The instability of it is too great. Who is to stop everyone from deciding that it is useless, and then I will be stuck with useless silver. Awi[/quote] Well then the question might be: [b]What can be done to have a more stable currency?[/b] From what I have read on this thread I believe some mesures seam to be needed for people to gain more confidence on this type of currency: do you believe bronze is the solution? Unfortunatly it is not in my power to solve this situation. I can only encourage the debate (hopely on a respectfull eviroment) so we can agree at least in a few points and maneage to advance in one direction, not just bumping into each other argumentations. I agree, the value of MDS has been cuestionable several times with strong arguments. Also the idea of selling items (any type) has generated a debate. Nevertheless recently we had an item's auction, paralel from the slavery auction. And items where sold for MDS. So I wont underestimate the capacity form people to accept this symbolic currency as an trading instrument. K

Sorry... what was your point again?... silver coins are worthless, everybody can get a quest reward in every corner... I should concentrate on creating items... ok got it, thank you so much, that was very helpfull.

I used the Yellow herbs (medicinal herbs) on a Quest (the first one I made), it was important to me. Then I sold them. The same will hapen with the flask, which I will sell when my upcomming Quest is over. I understand Rol related items, believe me I know they are priceless. I was talking about commun items whitch I am afraid they migh become collected too. Like I said before. I don't disagree with item's collectors. What I do not endorse is when these items are kept from others for no reason. Items should be used. Please, do not use personal recriminations to make your point more valuable, I really don't apreciate that aproach on a public debate. K

Would somebody please PM a sumarized translation (with simpler words) of what Lifeline just said? I've read it twice and I still don´t get the complete idea We can go on and on over this "currency" discussion, but please don't desestimate the value of a market place for MD just because of its difficulties. It a huge task to recreate an economy, but I am gonna try anyways because is it fun. It will bring other type of interaccions possibilities inside the realm and I belive many people will enjoy it. So don't destroy this just because it sound weird and unrealistic, since it is entirily up to us to make this work. K

I really cannot predict what will happen. All i can say is: If only a few players trade, they naturally will become item's collectors, then items will be priceless. Maybe newplayers will start winning a few coins in Quests, and maybe in a month they will have 3 or 4 MDS, but if they see items over-priced they wont participate on the economy, that's it.

[quote name='Udgard' post='30526' date='May 7 2009, 12:20 PM']Hmm.. it's probably hard to do that.. For some items, I would not pay 20 coins, but for others I might consider that amount ridiculously undervaluing the item. It would all again return to how a person values the item and the coin..[/quote] I see your point Udgard. But...Hmm How do I put this? We need to be fair and balanced so this "economic experiment" help us build a market accesible to everyone. If we fail, we will have a 6-8 people trading with big amounts of gold coins and the rest of the MD comuntity just totally outside the economic system.

[b]Inflation[/b] I think we should take some measures to avoid inflation. I am no expert but I think we should put a limit on item's values so the don't turn over-priced. I cannot determine an amount but if somebody asks 20 MDS for an item, I believe we should not pay that quantity. An equilibrium of wealth is also needed, for that I am promoting the spread of the MDS. I also suggest to avoid excesive item's collections (6 items= excesive), that way items can spread too and don't become priceless exentricities. [b]Gold coins[/b] I have asked some people about the value of a MDG. Could we agree to set this value on 15 MDS? Regards, K

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' post='30431' date='May 6 2009, 05:59 AM']I belive that the value of the silver coin actually does have an impact here- as Kragel says. I don't like the idea, not just for the reason of money spent, value, and all that, but in the main also because this is going to make people want to "cash in" their silver coins rather than use them as an in game currency for in game things. It becomes more like a way to give out free credits to people than a way for people to use an in game currency for in game items etc. Z[/quote] I agree, MDS should be use only inside the game, that way their value and legitimacy as a regular currency will be in our hands. I believe that will be far more fun and interesting. K

Quest´s Creators participating in the project: [b]Ailith[/b] (5MDS), [b]Raven[/b] (6MDS) [b]Stormrunner[/b] (5MDS), [b]Peace[/b] (5MDS). Thank you for your support. Quote Guy: "I have seen few, very very very few [b]MP3s who have anything in their inventory at all. Even assuming they are willing to pay for paper help (which is an idea I don't like) most CAN'T.[/b] You have few coins, very few coins. And no, the fact that an RPC is giving silver coins for solving a QUEST, and ONE PERSON is paying for stories (something that actually has some value, unlike a imaginary surgery or elixer) does not mean that [b]MOST players are willing to give their coins in purely RP interactions.[/b]" The main idea discussed on the meeting was about using funds to help spread MDS. I believe to bring economy to life we need to build some sort of equilibrium in terms of wealth first. We shouldn't have auctions where most of the items are bought by two or three people. [b]Never in our meeting we mentioned mp3 on any newplayer having to pay for help on their personal papers.[/b] What we said was that editing could be considered a type of salaried job. But like I have said before, the salaried jobs has to be evaluated a bit more, we dont want people charging for helping others. That is why I am only giving funds to quest and festival rewards (for now). K

The public funds will be divided into: People with Quests so they may give coins as rewards. People giving jobs (this has to be discussed a bit more first) Rewards during events (Like the Festival) buying items specific market related funds (services: like publicing, auctioners, etc) Many other discussions about item creation, and their propeties should continue, but for now we need to create an economy first (we need money and items flowing). Only then, these type of isuess will have a real efect on everyone. So for now we have to continue giving ideas but also to put them in practice. I will soon contact you and start giving the Subsidy. K

I will gladdly give 50 MDS from the "Market Public's Funds" for rewards during the Festival. Regards, K

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='30295' date='May 5 2009, 07:42 AM']and well we can also include services market into this goods market in case there is someone who wants to work alone and offer his services openly on market (dont mistake this with jobs as for working for someone else who pays you, in here i count in only entrepreneurs), so items and creatures need to be bought first to trade them later, so this is one way to spend founds on ... i will add one more thing that should be included in this, we have MDU, and where are lectures?? well lets boost this also up, everyone who makes a lecture/teaching for mdu should be paid, same thing for mda, who makes article, why not pay him and third part which is needed..... is money market, that means bank and guess what i plan to open one i will do job of exchanging currency (silver/gold), make people have theirs accounts, loans will become widely available and people will be even able to earn in bank for example savings and investing deposits (not sure if this is said like this on english), so since i know how real banks work, i think i wont have much problems in making this work just need to put all together and write it down [/quote] Thanks for posting your ideas Lib. Indeed services market are something I was considering to add later (I will soon be informing you about a Market Guild, but first i need to make some calls ) MDU professors... excelent! Who should I give the funds to be incharge of their salaries? The bank idea is quite good too, I will really like to see the type of interest you will give.. to say... 100MDS. Slavery auctions, As I recall Kragel said ar most for benefit good causes. It can be done later for helping some Guilds founds, Newspaper etc. That doesnt mean regular emploies ( darn word, ill check it later ) couldn't do something similar to offer their services. K

Ok, I don’t want this topic to generate conflicts. I wanted to know if there where any other ideas or flaws to be fixed in terms of the use for the funds. Everyone in the meeting agreed. I will wait a few more days to give everybody a chance to speak their mine about this subject. If anybody else has any comments to add… I will assume three things: One: These economic issues are a bit boring, and people only want to see the market working. In other words they don’t care from where coins may appear as long as they keep flowing. Two: Everybody trusts my judgment and be willing to help me when I PM Three: People hate the idea, but they don’t have enough time or elements to destroy mine. :spiteful: Either ways I will move forward with this. K

I wish to learn too. Acordingly to what Mur said as a merchant am I not supossed to fill the chat box publishing my goods.. But should I follow people around to convince them to trade with me? I trully hope not. K

Happy B-Day :clapping:

Burns, 1. I never said "any type of mage". It was an example for the propeties of the items. 2 I have talked to many people too, for several months. I just wanted to read a few ideas at the forum before I could implement the subsidy. 3. I am not giving coins randomly. I think that is pretty obvious.... It is the main purpuse of this post 4. If you believe "Micky Mouse jobs" are editing papers, solving quests and roll related jobs, please explain to me what a serious job would be. I ask you to please pay more atention to what I have said and what I am asking. I might not be elocuent or well spoken, but I am taking this task very seriouss. And yes, I agree with Intrigue, Item crators need to be dependant upon another to produce their goods. Continuing with the mage example The mage would need at least some herbs and a pot. (I couldn't find the word for "marmita" in English) He would have to find those items first before he could create any type of possion. Items creations is a privilege. Only really commited people should be able to have it. K

[b]I also wish to know what do you think about what is acctualy in my power to do: The subsydi[/b] But if you like to talk about Items creation, their propeties etc.. I agree, only a few should be able to create items, because they should be an physic manifestation of the roll character activities, nothing else. If there is a magician, it will be logicall for him/she to create potions. And if is really add some propeties to the owner, even better. Also items should desapear from time to time. Every 6 month they could desapear randomly (Hope not so randomly, because it wouldn't be fair to those with only one item on their inventory). Items can get lost, broken, or just consumed. For collector of items, those with more then 5 items on their inventory I would say they at least add those items to their dayly activity, like in a diary on personal papers. So everyone knows those items are actually being used. K

Indeed Items shouldnt last forever. (Kafuuka ones said so too as I recall.) I agree with you, Items could be more real if they have properties added, and also if they dont last more then 5-6 months. I hope this ideas can be implemented. For now I also wish to know what do you think about what is acctualy in my power to do. The subsydi: Who else (and how) will like to help me with this new system of rewards? I was thinkin to give 5 -10 coins to each persons comited in this salaried job implementation. Since this are public funds, this person must be very transparet in this transaccion (cautioned too) so I will demand every salary or reward to be publish on each personal paper. K

I dont want to write anything until I read some coments from people that couldnt come to the meeting. I need more constructive ideas, and people willing to help me. No matter how much enthusiams I put on this project, I cannot do this alone, I need you guys. so far: Subsidy for Job and Quest rewards will be given to certain people who will comit on this project. The coins may be given to reward or pay for: editing papers, solving quests, roll related jobs. Once we have spread coins we can really start building a far more complex economic system. This is just the first step, and it will need a lot of work and comitment. Regards, K

We will have a meeting [b]today at Sage's Keep at 2.00[/b] to discuss about the funds gathered in the Slaves and Items Auctions. Everyone is invited, Regards, K

It does not matter wether there are players wishing to become collectors, wether there are rare items or common items, wether Items should be bought with MDS or traded or gaing in other ways (Here I am also responding to Burns comment in a diferent post). The point is: ITEMS SHOULD BE USED. They should be related to a character rol, be part on a Quest, reward, task... etc. Again, responding to Burns. I consider market the best way to make Items and creats flow, but this doesnt mean there shouldnt be other ways. I am glad market and currency brings a debate, a few months ago this was not even a subject. K

Thank you IAB for answering my question and also for making my point even stronger. I rest my case. K Ps. The marketplace forum should be taken a bit more serious for now on... i hope