Guybrush Threepwood

What is loyalty good for? Taking over alliances, and buying a few random things in the shop. The first is really what I'd like to focus on. What effects a persons ability to take over something? Generally the amount of trust that the leader puts in them, and their knowledge of the thing the person is attempting to take over. In general, the amount of loyalty a leader perceives their followers to have. Now, what does the loyalty system actually in place have to do with any of that? Frankly it's a little strange, at least I think so, and it rather strains the role playing environment. What does one actually need to overthrow a leader? Their trust, and the support of others in the organization. I propose that a new system be created that better reflects this and lends more toward role playing than throwing 250 heat in some MP6's direction or training with someone of another alliance. True, not being an alliance member I do not understand the loyalty system myself, especially not all the devious little details that seem to have been involved in some recent coupes, so feel free to correct me where I am most assuredly wrong. The system I would propose is that a leader has to delegate a certain amount of power, as leaders actually do in real situations. It is difficult to manage an organization where everyone has the same amount of power, but you are less likely to have a coupe. Of course, if you leave all your minions at minion level, never giving them any more power, they may all get upset and chose to rise against you. If people with enough total delegated power chose to work together, they overthrow the current leader. To this end you are best off giving more power to the people you trust more. This way it more resembles something that actually has to do with the situation. (maybe I should be saving some of these ideas for my own game, or maybe I'm juts blabbering and incredibly sleep deprived)

It'd be nice if you would explain how it is that it couldn't work the way I've explained it. You are correct that attack is the easiest to gain Burns, and I gave a rather simple solution for that, certain stats count for more. In the idea of class being based on ratio a healer might have regen/totalstats>.01. Where as a warrior would find himself with something more like attack/totalstats>.2. I don't understand exactly how easy it is to get each sort of stat, so these of course are just examples. And no Burns, a person wouldn't have to turn off certain stat gains, they would simply have to focus on certain stats. This would have to be done through sacrificing of course, as that is currently the only way to "choose" the stats you gain. I also agree that the system should be relatively dynamic, but any system at all at this point would be more dynamic than the one we have. Certainly the abilities an individual gets could be based off of stats, they could just as easily be based off of how long one has spent as that particular class. A person could also gain a new stat from battles, perhaps ability experience, and this would allow them to level their abilities. There are a lot of options, and I think perhaps an ideal way to keep it dynamic would be to have forks to the ability tree. Sure, this has been done, but it's worked too. This way each person can have a unique build. EDIT: At Lightsage I agree that a MP3 straight out of the story shouldn't immediately get all the advantages, but doing it in the way in which you described would have MRD as the most powerful warrior/wizard/healer in all of magic duel. This is just plain silly. As I mentioned previously in this post, there is no need for the power of abilities, or the number of abilities unlocked to be related to the amount of a particular stat. The class itself would be chose by the ratio, but abilities could just as well be decided by some form of experience (preferably one not tied to actual experience as people can, and in fact want, to lower that). Another possibility is that regen/totalstats>.01=healer and healer abilities are based off of regen. This way everyone is still just one class, but abilities are still based off of stats. The major difficulty I would see for basing it off of a ratio is that people who already have a great deal of stats would have difficulty in changing their ratios.

[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3852"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3852[/url] I'm really not sure how it is that I am supposed to post the link, if this aint it, sorry. Anywho, this here is a link to a discussion on the character "classes" that Mur mentioned in a previous post somewhere in this here forum. While this is Mur's idea, and not mine, I thought it would be a good idea if we as a community brainstormed how the dilio might be implemented.

Hello, me again. I know, I know, my questioning gets tiresome. However, for one who has not been here long this is quite confusing, perhaps the issues involved could be clarified? Grido took the alliance and kicked everyone out, why? Because he wanted to fix it, that's what he says. Others say that this was done in order to aid in the process of the war. Grido has made a good point that if anyone in the alliance had wanted to be involved they could have easily hopped in on another alliance. Of course the overall point of the war was to get Raven to step down because of poor leadership. GG claimed Lore root to be fragmented and disorganized. Certainly Grido having done what he did made it look even more so, hurting Raven in the eyes of the public. Also, Grido considered entirely disbanding the group, perhaps though, to get rid of what he considered a group that had stagnated and no longer served a purpose. It would seem that the church contained very few members, and, according to Cryxus was not accepting members that really should have been involved. Of course, there appears to have been a conflict in the past between the pirates and the church, so it can't be said that passing his advice was entirely unreasonable. Not to say that I agree, Cryxus, as far as I am concerned, is an honest fellow. He's not the sort to sidle up all friendly and sneak a knife between your ribs. He may sneak in and rob you blind, but he won't lie in doing so. Grido has mentioned that the condition the church was in is shown by the fact that he was able to do this, but, as has previously been mentioned, loyalty in the game has less than nothing to do with loyalty. Perhaps for us who don't know quite so much we could have explained in more detail what the church was initially, what dreadful thing it apparently became, and what it is that you mean to do with it Grido. This topic is after all "The Savelites". Perhaps an explanation of what it is you plan to do with it, in more detail, would assuage the animosity of some individuals involved. My understanding is that this church is a religious one. Are you a believer in whatever this church stands for? Sure, you're an honest trustworthy fellow, but is that enough to make you the man for this job? Perhaps it is, I'm just curious. You may have the best of intentions in mind, and perhaps I am just being silly and this is all explained elsewhere, but it may be helpful to explain yourself further. I beg pardon if what I have requested is readily available elsewhere, but it would seem that others are also bereft of this information, or perhaps just don't like it.

Mur mentioned previously an idea of changing the a person's way of fighting based on one's stats. He mentioned the possibility of a person who gets 100 into Regen becoming a healer for example. (I for one am a huge fan of the idea, especially of a healer). I'm sure that this is simply an example, but I thought it may be fun to attempt to brainstorm some abilities a person might have for a class and what classes it would be connected. One thing that I would especially like to focus on is HOW this might be implemented and different ways people will attempt to abuse the system. Currently Mur is the only one working on the code for this game and that means things take a while longer, though it keeps things more consistent. Fixing things often takes longer than simply having it work properly the first time. If we can foresee issues with issues that might be, it would save Mur some effort. Of course currently how this would be implemented and exactly what it would do is all conjecture. I'll throw out a couple of ideas. First, I would suggest that a player's "class" not be based off of a if stat>x value case. This would mean that players such as MRD would simply be every class. This isn't inherently an issue, but I like the idea of specialization this sort of chucks it out the window. I enjoy the idea that I have to sacrifice being able to do one thing in order to do another. I would suggest that instead a player's "class" be based off of a ratio, ie: xstat/totalstats>some value, or be based off of a highest stat. Of course some stats are considerably more difficult to gain than others, and perhaps something like power would have a 5 times multiplier before consideration. An idea for a possible ability of a person who has a warrior "class" (based from attack) is: Unrelenting Assault-Your next attack will ignore the normal cool down required between attacks on the same individual. This could have a number of times that it would be doable per day or a cost for using, such as Ap or something of the sort. This of course would allow you to attack with a self destructing ritual to test the opponents ritual and make an informed decision on how to attack. EDIT: I forgot to mention something that may be exploited. People may switch classes back and forth in order to refresh ability cooldowns.

[quote name='pamplemousse' post='29638' date='Apr 29 2009, 12:14 AM']I am under the impression that any coin raised will go to purchase the items to be sold at the market. A start-up capital, if you will, to enable Kriskah to have a supply of items to sell, thus stimulating the MD economy. It is my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong for I would like to know, that Kragel will help to purchase some of these items, which is why he is recieving the coinage, not to use for his personal gain. If he is keeping the coin for himself, I will have to re-evaluate my participation.[/quote] That'd be lovely and all, but Kriskah has not yet mentioned any such thing as far as this being the case. And she has already responded a few times. Also, I'm not sure if the idea is for Kriskah to have a great deal of items for trade, or to have an open air market. I guess I was leaning toward the latter. If Kriskah wants to create an in-game economy all on her own, I guess that's good to. *Pokes Pamplemousse with his foot as she rests on the beach*

Indeed, and why not get a job that pays? As I said Phantom, people would only do this for a good cause. And I don't see enough reason to believe that it'll work out that way. If Kragel is not doing this to get rich, what is it that his coin is going toward? I understand he is taking some, how much and why? Certainly if we are expected to donate ourselves anything he gets must go toward a good cause yes?

These slaves are volunteer slaves. As such, there's no reason for the slave not to turn this to make a profit for themselves, unless of course proceeds are going to a good cause.

I see an issue with the number of people being sold and the number of coins on the market... Very VERY few people have 10 or more coins. What I have heard so far is that Kriskah doesn't really need the coin, and I haven't been told what Kragel is doing with it. So, Kragel is getting free coin (fine, it's your idea I guess, percentage has not been given) and Kriskah is getting coin that's not particularly needed. Slaves are likely not getting any coin at all (since most people don't have 10 coins and there are so darn many people being auctioned). So... Kragel gets coins? Not to be rude or anything, but could we go over percentages and what exactly this is going towards, like EXACTLY? Cause this doesn't really seem like a fundraiser and I don't see why people wouldn't just sell themselves for direct profit to themselves.

Of course it would, I just don't think people will go for it. In order for coins to have a set reasonable value there has to be something that people can get for them. People judge the dollar (or any currency) by gas, by bread, by milk. There is no simple basic thing that can be bought for silver coins. In order to establish a sustainable market for the coins a relative base level of coins would have to be reached and everyone would have to agree on a price. I just think it's too easy to set up trades directly for what you want rather than using these coins as a medium. There just aren't enough people and items. If we really wanted to set a market for the coins RPCs could offer something for the coins, and then offer coins for completion of quests. After all it is the circulation of currency that determines the strength of the market. If coins are rewarded for quests and they are made from nothing, it'll screw everything up. RPCs need to gain the existing coins in order to reward people with them in quests. This would of course require RPCs to offer something for them. Anywho, my wheels are just spinning, but it's 8:36 am here and I haven't gone to sleep yet, so if I'm not terribly coherent, that's why. Edit: That last bit's not really an example. That's someone attempting to give there coins for something else. I just don't see it growing on people. Sure, some people give them value, but everyone, or at least a good portion of people, need to give it value. Ideally the same value. Maybe it will grow in time, but right now I wouldn't be my silver coins on silver coins becoming currency without some change.

The issue here is just supply and complete lack of demand. How many coins are out there? Then of course, all you can get with coins are creatures from other people and items. In order for a person to trade an item for coins, or creature for coins, a person has to believe that they will be able to then gain something else, of equal value for those coins. As it is, it is much easier to just barter. There are too few items that people are willing to part with, and too few people in general. I really don't think the coins are worth much of anything. EDIT: After saying that the issue is entirely supply, I went on to say why I didn't think it matter. So I changed the first sentence.

If I bought a Speed boat for a dollar, and someone gave me a shiny token with it, I wouldn't consider the token worth a dollar. If I had to pay 100$ to get one shiny token and I also got a speedboat, a Ferrari, a house, my own fast food chain and a mansion, I wouldn't consider the shiny token worth 100$ either.

I really can't label a value for them. All they are good for is currency, and nothing else. The value depends on what everyone considers the value to be. If everyone thinks it's 0, it is 0. If everyone thinks it's 2k, it is 2k. And Akasha, I don't think it's appropriate to figure out what it takes to get to them in the shop and divide it up. That would be true if the things you got leading up to it were worthless, but as it is, they are worth buying whether you get the coin or not.

Well... If the labyrinth is re-opened and it still has the same exit, that'll kinda be a reward. Though I do hope it's not just a simple maze next time, maybe something that actually requires a trick to solve? Maybe riddles that have to be answered? A minataur to fight? Perhaps not allowing us to see how many times we've been to a location? Maybe not taking EP away when we go to a new place? (Yeah, that actually would make it harder.) Though if we had no way of knowing which way we entered a scene that wouldn't really seem fair... Also, the coordinates make it a bit easy. Of course you could just always turn left... Eh, I'm just a hopeless dreamer. That would take a lot of extra code work.

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' post='28593' date='Apr 10 2009, 07:29 PM']Second, Yrthilian's refusal to state further reasons for the war than those listed above shows his refusal to engage in slander to sway peoples opinion. He has chosen the most widely know of the major contributors to the declaration of war to justify it. If Yrthilian went around trying to sway people to his side through slander than he would be a very weak ruler, and fighting for the wrong reasons[/quote] Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. (definition, we'll ignore the oral portion) Are you meaning to imply that any other reasons that Yrthilian may have are fallacious? I do not personally believe that to be true. Perhaps you didn't actually mean slander, but I do find it difficult to believe that anyone could agree that telling a populace an important truth about their would be king would be a bad thing. Much less could I consider someone believing that killing that populace in war would be better than telling them the truth. While I agree that Yrthilian likely has reason to not make other reasons clear, I certainly hope that this is not it, for it would be foolishness itself. I do however like your point on the puppet king. It would however be helpful to mention who he would not accept. No one wants this to start all over again.

It seems to me that there was an election (or rather still is as it's not yet been tallied.) I assume that Yrthilian will have the good graces to wait until the outcome of the election is known. If he loses he ends up in jail, no one dies and GG gets what Yrthilian wants. That being said, if there are good reasons that Raven should not be the leader, why would someone who does not want him as leader not make this information public while an election is taking place? Is killing everyone really better than letting them in on information about their own leader? Perhaps the information is sensitive in some other manner? I do know that I seem to be coming down on Yrthilian (not that my opinion could possibly make a difference to this ordeal, I am after all not a "big boy"), but that is not at all what I mean to be doing. I'm just a little confused about this tight lip policy.

[quote name='Yrthilian' post='28535' date='Apr 9 2009, 03:02 PM']There are other i would not like to see fill that role but that will be a matter for another time.[/quote] A different time? You're asking a people to have their leader step down. Shouldn't you give them an idea of someone they could chose to replace him that you would find acceptable? They should know who you would have them live with before they can really consider your ultimatum.

[quote name='Yrthilian' post='28532' date='Apr 9 2009, 02:41 PM']we spoke i explained that is that you dont see problem so you say. then maby you are blind to your own problems This is my last post i will not be responding to any more[/quote] I do believe, sir, that my question is different than the ones previously asked and begs an answer. It seems a reasonable enough question to me. Shouldn't the people know what you plan to do if you're victorious?

I know my opinion doesn't count for much, but I'll throw it out there. Yes, the reasoning does seem childish, though yrthilian claims that there's more reason. He's already made it clear he won't tell us what those are, so let's not beat a dead horse. Let's stick to the reasons he's given. Ok, so Loreroot is a fractured land, and you think that needs to be fixed, but not by Raven. If you're going to war until he steps down, or is killed, you must have an idea for a better solution. What then, yrthilian, is your solution? What would be more ideal do you think? At least have an option, let people know what you would have them do, rather than simply what they should not do.