Guybrush Threepwood

Yeah Burns that was what I meant. Rare creatures are not so abundant anymore, and most people who have them don't want to sell them. That means that for the most part this market is depending on Mur creating more and more items. Which will just flood the market. Of course for people like Burns and Shady, these items only have use if they can help them get creatures currently. I like the idea of consumable items, like, say, a muffin? Eat it and it restores some health. I know Burns has said little things aren't MUCH use for vetrans, but it's more use than some coin in your inventory is it not? I like the idea of consumable items (as well as non consumeable ones) but this would mean Mur would have to do a bunch of programming.

Ok, so you want people to have coins, you are spreading them out. These coins will then be used to buy creatures and items, and that will be the end of it? Or are we depending on Mur creating more items? I understand where your money is going, but I'm NOT seeing an infinite supply of infinite goods/services. I understand where you said the money is going Kriskah, that's not the issue. How will it keep flowing? And it's fine, don't bother answering this.

Oddly enough Stormrunner, no one has answered any of my questions. I have offered ideas, I am glad to help. Perhaps you could actually add things on occasion rather than just ranting about nothing? And I have no idea what you are talking about "quotes" "imply" or "trying to make a point with them". Really, perhaps you should be more specific in your complaints. Actually, just saying something AT ALL, would be lovely. Threatening to cuss me out Storm, is really not much of a threat at all. Will it hurt me at all? No. Will it make you look like a complete moron? Yes, so go ahead. So again, anyone think it would be helpful to see if people would be willing to trade silver coins for roleplay? I know Shady Jester has gone as far as to say the coins are useless. I am interested if that would mean he would trade coins for RP interaction. Of course this would be under the theoretical assumption that he had RP interaction. Here is my current understanding of the market. People give Kriskah money for things, or Kragel, or whatever. Kriskah or Kragel then gives money to people for quest whatnots. These people then use the money for what? Trading critters and what else? I hear RP interaction a lot, but how many people would trade a coin for a RP interaction if they thought they could get a drachorn if they saved enough coins? I'm curious to know how many people would actually trade coins for things like "muffins" or "surgery", and so far I have only got an answer from about five people saying that, "of course everyone would". It really doesn't seem so obvious to me, maybe I'm just being silly.

Who does it help if he becomes someone's adept? The person who he becomes the adept of. The adept only gains if he takes on a useful master. A master doesn't need qualifications to take an adept, and if you do, don't take him. If you're insulted by the idea of him asking for your qualifications, don't take him.Certainly plenty of people will be interested. Of course if you've been playing a month you should have some idea of who you want to be your master...

Kriskah, I never implied that you said that people should pay for help with papers, but people have since. It was one idea about how money might exchange hands once the wealth is more spread out. Edit: Actually, this was in fact discussed at the meeting. Guybrush Threepwood:So, who is going to pay for helping people with papers? Gauge:Nay Graziel, or they would not have any value. Guybrush Threepwood:Will you give someone money and have them watch over that? Gauge:I would gladly pay two silver for someone to help me with my paper. Guybrush Threepwood:Do you want to start paying the LHOs? .Kragel.:guy Kriskah Arcanu:Ok let me explain. Kriskah Arcanu:Pample already rewards that you know Gauge:And I would pay another two for someone to help me find the answer to MRD's first question on his quest. .Kragel.:people who need papers fixed will pwy the people who can help them

It definitely doesn't work and critters are definitely doing more damage than one would expect from their stats. Not all critters though.

Let's just think for a second stormrunner, let's just try it for one second. And again, thanks for ignoring the entirety of my post. I have seen few, very very very few MP3s who have anything in their inventory at all. Even assuming they are willing to pay for paper help (which is an idea I don't like) most CAN'T. You have few coins, very few coins. And no, the fact that an RPC is giving silver coins for solving a QUEST, and ONE PERSON is paying for stories (something that actually has some value, unlike a imaginary surgery or elixer) does not mean that MOST players are willing to give their coins in purely RP interactions. So no, the question has not yet been answered, more than two, or three, or even four people willing to do it. If we are basing the markets infinite goods or services (not infinite at any one point Kafuuka, but perhaps the word "unending" would be more appropriate) on role play, most people have to be willing to do this. Perhaps a pole would be helpful?

[quote name='stormrunner' post='30267' date='May 4 2009, 05:40 PM']really so I haven't started a very simple quest that anyone can do with the reward being a silver coin and ailith doesn't have her silver coin quest ether? please do us all a favor if your only going to bring up things people are trying to fix and not offer to help, please just keep your peace. this is as nice as I can be about this[/quote] Thanks for completely ignoring the majority of my post. Also, do you expect right off of the bat new MP3 or 2 players to start running around attempting to do quests to get help with their papers? I think help with their papers is likely something that will be provided for them for free from most players. Now, if we are talking about HTML and whatnot, that's something people won't likely want until later when they would likely have more coins. My entire point in this is to bring up what a market needs in order to exist. Infinite amount of services/goods providable. (New players coming in will need help with papers, and no stormrunner, you don't have enough money to give a coin to every new MP3. I suppose a more reasonable thing would be to expect them to get silver coins from the shop early. I'm also not so sure we want to have MP3s having to pay for help with papers as has been suggested. Unless of course people are meaning more advanced HTML help as mentioned previously. So back to infinite goods/services, this is currently only possible through paying for RP services/goods, as most people do not have tangible services or goods they can infinitely provide. My original question was how many people would give a tangible item, for a role play item? I'm still interested in the answer to that. Really, I'm not attempting to be condescending here, I am curious as to the answer. @Stormrunner. I do believe Kriskah asked for foreseeable issues.

Well Mur, I know you previously stated that you don't want people thinking RPC and PWR is the "next step". Well, I guess I think that most people consider it that way because they get spells. You had asked what other way you could do things, and this is only a suggestion, but if you integrated a class system in which people could gain spells (the heck with stats if you don't want it to involve those, it's just more complicated), but the requirement for spells was a "star point" or who the heck cares, that is given out by RPCs to people who advance their role well in MD. As stormrunner mentioned, PWR is kind of like a class for those who have advanced their roles. So, I guess this would just allow people to gain spells appropriate for their roles in a way that would not require you to program abilities for everyone every time you feel that they are doing something interesting in the game. You could tell the RPCs to make it as difficult to gain these as you like. You could even make it so that you are the only one who can give them out. Really, it's just an idea that would perhaps take a bit of attention off of becoming a RPC or PWR or whatever, and save some programming effort in the long run.

I hear a lot about item hoarders, and I guess I haven't seen to many people with items. But how many people keep items because they think it would be useful for a role, and how many are holding onto them just to hold on to them? I honestly don't know, I'm just asking. Also, something that might help keep people from hoarding these things is removing the top item owners list. Seems like a silly list to have if you want items to spread around, but maybe that's just me. In order for a market to exist, there needs to be an infinite amount of goods or services produce able. As long as there are new players, people will need help with papers, but new players don't necessarily themselves have anyway to get coins, so this may be an issue. As far as items go, the only way to allow for infinite amounts is to have consumable items (muffins anyone?). In order for everyone to be able to be involved in the market, everyone needs to be able to produce a good OR perform a service. Now, everyone has a different role, and many could be paid for these things. In example, we have an apothecary in MD. However, he doesn't produce actual items. Would people be willing to trade tangible items (silver coins, bags of cement) for intangible ones (penicillin, whatever the heck else Virtuous Pride makes)?

This has gotten really off topic, but hey, as long as Mur started it it's fine right? Though perhaps someone should open a new topic. I know before you can do any of Calyx's quests you are required to do a quest that involved developing your role. She hasn't been around lately though, so I don't know exactly how it works. The options for role play help are there, and I am equally happy to help anyone (though I'm new, so I may not be the one to ask). Completely off topic and out of character: *giggles like a school girl* Did Mur just call me popular? *faints* EDIT: (I really have no idea where to put this, people told me to talk to Junior, but he's not on and Mur mentioned wanting to have someone told right away, but the second or third link in the Free credits list seems to be broken.) [color="#0000FF"]no worries junior should be well aware about it, anyway i pmed him just to be sure no worries (lib)[/color]

I apologize for any offense I may have caused yesterday. It just didn't seem like everyone was on the same page, but I got out of hand and misinterpreted some things it would seem. I got out of hand, and I apologize for that.

I take the rules seriously. My alt doesn't have any crits it can't currently get, and I am not transferring creatures from one account to the other to give my main a place to gain age. It would be simple to use free credits on a bunch of alts to rake in a great deal of silver coins for my main, but I don't do that either. It would be just as easy to collect special crits with alts, I'm not doing that either. Can things be gained from using alts? Of course, but it is disrespectful to do so knowing it is against the wishes of the creator of the game. It's a free game, Mur puts a lot of effort into it. As long as it's free I'm not going to exploit anything that Mur sets a rule against. As far as figuring out who is whos alt, I can't necessarily do it. Sure, their country is a good indicator, as well as mannerisms, but IP would be a better indicator. Of course now that I have said that it's easy enough for people to avoid that, but it doesn't seem that it would be hard for Mur to figure who is whos alt. Does he really need to put the time into that? No, he's got better things to do. Much of this game depends on people abiding by some rules.

Well, I kinda wanted to say "Yay, King Manu posted in my thread!", but this was kind of a downer. I know that this may never be implemented, I mentioned it previously. I guess this is kind of why I wanted this system to be entirely non stat related. I wanted a class system based off of age and questing (which should involve role playing, if quests are done properly). Of course looking at this whole idea, it does seem like it might make inner magic useless. Maybe it's unrealistic, but I think it could make the game a lot more fun, and help in role playing. @ Intrigue: If the system was set up similar to the spells that MP6s use you would be able to name your spells whatever you want. You could lower someone's defense by tickling them for example. This would allow people's role play to have an actual affect.

[quote name='stormrunner' post='30148' date='May 3 2009, 10:20 PM']it shows loyalty to your protector[/quote] But in no way shape or form influences any interaction with your protector. It does, however, affect alliances.

I would have to say that if you interpreted the rules about alts in a very LENIENT way you would not be allowed to do what Burns suggested. If you were to take the rule more strictly you would also include anyone's alt in this case. As far as delegating a great deal of power to a trusted friend, isn't it reasonable that you wouldn't be able to, and that doing so would make your position safer. This is also how it works in reality. As for Leaders putting in the time and effort to BE a leader, I agree. They should come up with a gap that needs to be filled and gain the trust of others in the alliance. Walking around, attacking people with Martyr rits and sending heat to a random MP6 does not show any loyalty to an alliance, or dedication as a leader. It's just plain a little strange.

That's a pretty fleshed out idea and I like how it works. Not being terribly interested in stat grinding I would personally prefer spells to simply have a age cap and this mystic whatever point personally. I guess I was more sticking with the stats you have changing your class because that's what Mur had mentioned, but I rather like the idea of choosing your class better. To add one more issue of this system, it would take a great deal more work as you would have to change the way stats are gained for each class. This is of course do-able, but the less work the better for Mur. I would also like to see a bonus to the stats you do gain while in the class as well as not gaining stats in other areas. As for the idea of 10 spells every 14 days compared to 50, I do like the idea of making spells less useful once out of a class, and that's one way to do it. I think that was just a suggestion on your part, but I think the same thing could be done by making the spell weaker, or only keeping certain spells. (I'm sure you're not a fan of this). All in all I really like the idea of choosing a class and I enjoy the multi-class like feature. I'm happy to just work with this and expand on it in ways and look for other issues, unless someone else has a different idea or Mur gives some say on how it'll work.

Ummm... That's entirely my point... I have a set up I quite enjoy for a healer, I have what I want. It works, it makes sense, but Mur can't very well program every possible combination of principals that would reasonably work for use in healing.

Only problem is that I may not have the same concepts of the use of my principals that Mur does. I know it has previously been mentioned that a good choice for a healer would be the principal of syntropy. I don't have that principal, am not going to get that principal, and don't regret not having gotten that principal. I believe the five I have chosen perfectly fit a doctor, but since Mur is programming the game, my ideas of how the principals could be used may not be involved, probably won't be. This leaves me as a doctor in role, but entirely unable to heal a person when inner magic is implemented. My principals may define me, but only if you look at the principals from the perspective I look at them.

They're already farming losses, them becoming more unbalanced is their goal. Seems to me that the issue is with the honor system in general. I thought the idea was to get honor from fighting those who are stronger and losing honor from fighting those who are weaker. Well, most people who are strong have a ridiculous number of losses. Seems to be to be a problem.

Burns, my suggestion is that the leader be REQUIRED to hand out power, call it a percent of power if you will. If they chose to give one person 40% of the power, and don't specify toward everyone else than each person would get 60%/number of alliance members. So yes, by inviting alts you could gain the power to overthrow an alliance, if the alliance leader has not chosen to delegate any power. And yes Burns, minions have power. You get enough minions and it's simple to overthrow a single man. Specifics of how much power would be needed to overthrow I won't go into, it's just the concept I want to throw out there. However, since you've mentioned it, I would also like to propose that only a person with a certain amount of delegated power could invite someone into an alliance.

Some of these things I feel I've already mentioned, but here goes again. Yes, something would have to change with the stat gain system, but that should not be too terribly difficult to do as sacraficing values for crits are up for change at any time as Mur has said. Also, power may be entirely useless for fighting (a good thing if you ask me, a life steal that takes 100% of a creatures Ve is just ridiculous) but in principal it is not at all useless to a mage. Just because it doesn't have value in a fight doesn't mean that it couldn't be the basis of a class. Just because it is useful in a fight (initiative) does not mean you need a class based off of it. Would initiative be helpful in a warrior? Of course, but it doesn't need to be involved in how your class is decided. The only issue I have with the way of class by ratio is with the fact that older players would immediately be thrown into a class that they are not interested in. Burns, you have a good point, people do want to change things up (though this doesn't necessarily make sense as far as roles go, to be hopping around classes constantly). Previously I already proposed the idea of being able to switch classes, but only keeping certain spells from a previous class, or keep all of them but they can be used less often/are less powerful. The more I think about gaining points to put toward spells from RPCs in quests the more I like it. This would mean that people who have advanced farther into a class have quested a great deal (and I think this would help the role-play in the realm, at least if quests were done correctly). This would be a way to make quests more directly affect one's battling prowess. Anywho, thanks for all the criticism, it's helpful. Burns, it'd be wonderful if you could perhaps flesh your idea out a bit more for the class system and summarize it. I'd like to start summarizing each idea we already have and start practically thinking about what would need to be changed/done before it would work. This post is already a bit long so I won't start here. (Didn't DST win best villain? Doesn't that take Role Play? I guess I haven't been here long, and have no idea what happened.)

Lightsage, I'm not sure I'm following you in the whole "more unbalanced" thing. Do you mean that as a regen/totalstats increases your spell power increases? So you could actually feasibly increase your spell abilities by lowering other stats? I'm not sure I'm following you. DST, sure initiative is useful and important, but you would base a class off of it? What would the class be? Sonic the Hedgehog? Go getter? It certainly could be done, but it seems a strange thing to create a class from. Of course I'm really tired right now, so maybe it's not that silly. As for briskness, I considered power to be more the defining factor in a spell caster I guess. Sure, briskness would be useful, but would you define a class on it? You certainly could, but it's definitely not necessary. The point was, you don't need to use all of the stats for this class dilio. Some things I just thought of/decided I should mention. Mur mentioned this idea in passing, and may not even have considered it much himself, and it may not e something he's actually looking into. Don't want to get anyone's hopes up. I don't think classes should come into play if they are created until MP4 or 5. MP3 is confusing enough already, and this gives a person at least a little time to think about what class they want to choose and start working toward it. Another way that abilities could be advanced would be by points of some sort given by RPCs for various reasons. I feel like Mur wants to push some things a bit more toward role play, and as this bit greatly adds to role play many people would feel left out if this addition is best utilized by stat grinders. Also, it would make sense that a healer would gain abilities training under a healer (Calyx, Envy). And probably something else, but I really need to slip off to the realm of unconscious now. EDIT: At Burns Sure, it would all be usefull, but most people in the realm have a role, it makes sense for a person to be a healer. If you're a healer you're not going to be the strongest warrior, it doesn't really make sense. I suppose a person could change, and perhaps a person should have a portion of the skills carry over, but it doesn't make sense that someone who has been a healer for a single day, and a warrior their entire time in MD is stronger than another healer who's been such for months. Switching should entail loss, it cheapens things if it does not. This game is ever evolving, and Mur could keep adding new things to classes if he wanted. We could also go with a system where a person is allowed to keep abilities he's gained from other classes when they switch. Sure, you are now a really poor healer, but you're still a decent warrior. Anywho, I really am off to sleep this time.

Again, we've already mentioned that some stats gain slower than others, that's not so much an issue, it's easily fixed. It's more an issue of being able to selectively gain one stat over another. The fact that only five stats are available from saccing is also not that big of an issue. Do you really need more than attack, defense, power, luck and regen? This is of course excluding Vp and Ve. Certainly other stats could be included, but trade sense, briskness and energetic immunity don't necessarily make as much sense for basing a class off of. (I'm sure Kriskah Arcanu may dissagree) Though I do see the issue that some stat gains simply come with other stats when you sacrifice. Really though, you would only need a handful of stats to base classes from. Many can be made from a few stats, just tweak things like regen/totalstats>.008 and attack/totalstats>.25 gives you the something faced wierdo clown class. (I'm awfully tired) But yes, something would likely have to change in how stats are gained.

[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3854"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3854[/url] Ideas to make the loyalty system resemble what's actually occurring. More a topic for discussing ideas on how it could be done than just critiquing my own suggestion.