Candy Hording

[phantasm]

We started to see this when it was a 200 cap. Now being a 800 cap, which was hit, we see it very much more. IAB himself has over 200 candies. Orvid has over 40 or 50 (who is an alt with no elu). These are not the only ones, there are several others.

I understand completely about market fixing and trying to make a buck. I also understand hording a reasonable amount of candy for your Elu so that it will not run out of candy. What I don't understand is that, while it hasn't reached the point yet, but is quickly reaching where those with Elu's can not find candy unless paying unreasonable prices for it, simply because there is a cap for candy and is being abused by others.

So my question to those out there. D[b]o you think candy hording to increase pricing is abuse, or good businessman-ship? [/b]This is one of the very few resources with a cap such as it is that seems to be constantly hit. It took less then a week to make the 200 cap, and not much longer than a month to hit the 800 cap. [b] So what do those with Elus, who have problems affording 20 or 30 silver a month to keep candy for their elus. Or do you feel that is the problem of the person with the Elu, and that it is of no personal concern?[/b]

[Chewett]

My Elu hasnt had one candy since i got him. Nothing bad has happened yet. Whats wrong with hoarding it? If they can, why not?

[Brulant]

[quote name='phantasm' timestamp='1324384453' post='98158']
[b]…Do you think candy hording to increase pricing is abuse, or good businessman-ship?…[/b]
[/quote]

Unfortunately, the answer to both of those questions is yes. In a capitalist market, controlling all of the resources is the best way to increase profit and MD has no checks against monopolies or oligopolies, unfortunately. So it turns into a waiting game of, "Do I reaaally want that resource?" while consumers attempt to wait out the producers.

[quote name='phantasm' timestamp='1324384453' post='98158']
[b]…So what do those with Elus, who have problems affording 20 or 30 silver a month to keep candy for their elus. Or do you feel that is the problem of the person with the Elu, and that it is of no personal concern?…[/b]
[/quote]

[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10952-my-candy/page__p__95854#entry95854"]My price[/url] comes out to roughly 10 silver a month if you want an Elu producing paper as fast as possible. If you just want a happy Elu, then you only need to feed it 3 candy. Once it's happy, it's happy. Additionally, there are no downsides to owning an unhappy Elu as of right now. That may change soon though. I consume 5 pieces of candy every day in hopes that it would combat the cap a little bit, and it looks like maybe it did, but it's obviously not enough because it just allows other candy horders to horde. So maybe I'll stop that. I don't know.

Resource management is frustrating, no? "Use the needle" doesn't really seem to cut it here.


[quote name='phantasm' timestamp='1324384453' post='98158']
…but is quickly reaching where those with Elu's can not find candy unless paying unreasonable prices for it…
[/quote]

I'd be interested to know who you're buying from, if you'd be okay with giving up some names.

[Maebius]

One suggestion is to make Candy a "shared resource" in a sense, in that it "returns to the box" after a period of time. Perhaps one month, unless Used prior?
This is plenty of time for Elus to eat it, and nibble them for RP snacks, and such, but would prevent the worst of the Hoarding?

However, this is more of a "game mechanics" fix, and I'd like to see a more community-minded fix. Not sure how to accomplish that yet, but I'm sure someone will think of it.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Maebius

[phantasm]

and I meant no ill against you Brulant, this is about the possibility of the actions, not what is current. You have done a fine job with your candy sales and are reasonable. Issue becomes whoever hordes the most, eventually even prevents you from making candy. For something that was supposed to be a friendly shared item to keep Brulunt from being a monopoly, it is imo being abused and should be prevented BY the community.

[Shemhazaj]

[i][color=#808080]quote from an announcement:[/color][/i]

[quote][color="#CCCCCC"]Ann. 1604 - [2010-08-18 13:38:28 - Stage 10][/color]
Sabotage: items that spawn other usable items can be sabotaged by controlling the entire number of items they could spawn. I am announceing that here so I wont get complains about it later. It is supposed to be possible it is not a bug. If for example the rainbow candy box can create 20 candies at a time at most, if there are 20 unconsumed candies in the realm at that time the box won't be able to give any more candies until at least one candy is consumed. That will make the item temporarily unusable. I don't know why someone would want to do that, but it can be done.[/quote]

[Brulant]

[quote name='Maebius' timestamp='1324388571' post='98168']
One suggestion is to make Candy a "shared resource" in a sense, in that it "returns to the box" after a period of time. Perhaps one month, unless Used prior?
[/quote]

I think there are/were plans for resource and tier 2 item decay (doesn't tea say something about being drank within a week?), but obviously they haven't been implemented yet.

For some resources, like candy and lumber, decaying doesn't seem to make much logical sense. Candy doesn't really ever go bad and lumber just ages. (Maybe that should be a thing, aged lumber? )

For other resources, like flowers and water, decay does make sense. Flowers wilt, still water gets infected, tea becomes disgusting, etc.

[Kyphis the Bard]

While not exactly desirable, there isn't really anything wrong with what he is doing officially.

Then again, just because something isn't officially wrong doesn't mean you can't find ways to fight it yourself. If you don't like the situation, then find a way to change it. And Ironically, tools like the needles might actually work (I can think of two scenarios already after just a minutes thought). IaB has little concern for stats though, so you will have to think a little bit

If the discussion escalates and the CLC doesn't discuss it before then, or someone asks us to, I will bring it up, but at this moment I don't think there is any point. Seems fairly clear.

It is important to note, however, that announcement 1604 does NOT say it is okay to do that. Just that it is both possible, and mean't to be possible.
Mur has also announced that both tools to steal things are planned, however getting caught useing them will land you in jail. So tools designed specifically to get the user in trouble are already planned.
Just because you can do something, and should be able to do something, doesn't mean you can get away with it.

[nadrolski]

should also have a [b]cap per person[/b], not only on the total candies that can be produced..

[phantasm]

which is why I am saying AS A COMMUNITY. This is MD, all we have to do is decide and stick to something as a whole. It has recently been horrible attempts at being a community. As is with the Eon rant/complain/flaming. Or with controlling of depleted resources. It only takes the vast majority the initiative to ban together for something and it happens. Who cares if it's against Murs rules or not. If it is against the Community rules, but not Murs it should be just as big of an offense as if it was his. The majority doesn't have the grand coding capabilities or the ability to force a player, but if enough people push, even mountains move.

[Kyphis the Bard]

The offense is the same, just the punishment and who makes the effort is changed.

[Shadowseeker]

The only way as a community to stop is to simply grab all boxes before they can get them.

It's a pity Mur isn't setting something else free, that would fix the candy problem...(I would prefer to have a modified version of that though if he decides to)

Edited December 21, 2011 by Shadowseeker

[Maebius]

I am sorry for reviving an old topic, but it applied, I think.

There are currently shared Candy boxes in the Tribunal for folks to grab.
They don't work, as of the last 9 days, due to "too many objects" being out in peoples pockets still.
So, grabbing shared boxes is most likely not hte answer at the moment.
Suggestions?

[Seigheart]

Yeah, put an expiry date on the candies the boxes produce. If you don't use them by the reset of the next item displacement, they disappear as well.

So, when the box disappears back to the Tribunal, the candies that are associated with it, leave as well.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

[color="#cccccc"]Ann. 1604 - [2010-08-18 13:38:28 - Stage 10][/color]
Sabotage: items that spawn other usable items can be sabotaged by controlling the entire number of items they could spawn. I am announceing that here so I wont get complains about it later. It is supposed to be possible it is not a bug. If for example the rainbow candy box can create 20 candies at a time at most, if there are 20 unconsumed candies in the realm at that time the box won't be able to give any more candies until at least one candy is consumed. That will make the item temporarily unusable. I don't know why someone would want to do that, but it can be done.

[Tom Pouce]

I am really [b]agains[/b] making candies not permanent until used

I am relatively new, and for me winning 2 candies is the real nice thing
without that my inventoroy was almost empty, I was really happy to have got them, it make me feel good to have someting in my inventory, ... everyone as lots and lots of things in inventory ...

as for the box, i got in tribunal, got one for one week and did not make me a candy, so what? ... i dont cry about it,... those with elecubration will use the candies and new candies will be able to be produced ... you all veterant arent you always talking about one need to know to wait ? be patient?

[b]wait, and candies will be used[/b] or [b]ask MUR to make them more usefull to other things and then they will be consume[/b]

And if you want 2 candies , come and trade with me something ill take as worwhile for me to trade agains.

And to make it more understanding: [b]MAKING CANDIES NOT PERMANENT UNTIL USED WOULD ROB ME OF MY WINNING 2 CANDIES[/b]

Edited May 15, 2012 by Tom Pouce

[Soothing Sands]

I'm sure candy consumption would go up if colored paper became useful or it's benefit was scaled. I think it gives such low stats that for anyone in MP5 it is utterly useless.

In addition, if anyone wants to give me 3 candies, i'll give you a colored paper!

[Liberty4life]

yea soothin sands is right on this, also tom, thing is that once candies get used up those that hoard them immidiately use box to get more, so their hoarded pile never decreses and that the problem from wut i notice

[Maebius]

I do like that candy is permanent, for the exact reasons Tom Pouce mentioned above. I've given and received Candy as prizes, and cherish them.
However, the boxes are unusable, so I wanted ot address that. Not so much as direct complaining, but merely to prompt some more discussion on it and see if any new ideas sprang up.

[Mallos]

How about something a little more reasonable: Any stack of candy over 50 (or so) loses a fourth of it on each item regroup.

[Pipstickz]

If that were implemented, what's to stop someone from just grabbing the candy box with their alt and getting 50 from it, Falronn? It's a stretch to say that's alt abuse, and it wouldn't even have to be alts, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be willing to hold 50 candy if they were paid, for example.