Cowardice seasoned with a bit of hypocrisy

[nadrolski]

there were times i was at MDA, and there was this Eno that followed like a dog.. and after few [size=1]single-digit[/size] minutes, there was Eon. MDA has no player indicators on the map, and how amazing and impressive Eon knew there was/were an MP5/s at that location where I/we were. i did not bother to take proof because, how the hell will I do that? screen shots? screen shots are being laughed at nowadays.

there were times i was at GG, and there was this Aeon that followed like the 1st one.. and after few [size=1]single-digit[/size] minutes [size=1]again[/size], there was Eon. it also happened several times at Tribunals, with an alt that has initials on name (can't recall the name), and [size=1]single-digit[/size] minutes after, there was Eon. but my bad again and again and again, i did not take proofs.

really, how do you make a proof that will convince people to believe you? in our dreams.

i choose to be called a coward, instead of like being a dog of someone.

[ChildOfTheSoul]

The simple truth:

People with supporter statuses are not considered better or protected in any way. You can get everything in this game from just playing for long enough, and that's the way it has been forever. Paying does not put anyone at an advantage, nor does it mean that they are favored more by Mur or anyone else.

Enough training quickly outstrips the skilldamage provided by Eon and SS. If you're just sitting out in the open, sure... you'll get hurt. But if you are chatting in a sanctuary(which we have plenty of right now), you have absolutely no risk of getting your precious skills hurt.

Eon likes the chase. The more you run, the greater extremes he'll take it to. Train, or don't, just know that if you are getting negative stats at the end of the day as an MP5, you were obviously not trying in the first place.

On a side note, I personally believe that as long as the main is getting no tangible gain from their alts, they can feel free to use them as they please. If an alt is used as a spy, or to gather information I don't think the player should be punished for that. The people that are generally irritated at others using their alts as spies tend to also be the people committing abuses.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ChildOfTheSoul

[Shadowseeker]

I find it weird that you name me in regards to SD, when I barely toss out any at all. I can safely claim that ever since I won BHC, I probably have won less than 300 fights. I'm actually thinking only 100 or 150 were from me outgoing, the only ones who would inflict SD.

[ChildOfTheSoul]

I'm just saying that you and Eon are the active MP5s with skilldamage. >> Honestly, I haven't noticed whether you've hurt me or not. I haven't really been hurt by anybody, but that's because I avoid Eon when I'm not training.

[ignnus]

[quote]Enough training quickly outstrips the skilldamage provided by Eon and SS. If you're just sitting out in the open, sure... you'll get hurt. But if you are chatting in a sanctuary(which we have plenty of right now), you have absolutely no risk of getting your precious skills hurt.[/quote]

So..what are you saying?Everybody should sit on sanctuaries because Eon will come and find them everywhere?

Eon likes to chase....I like to be able to train..You like other things..everybody likes something not just Eon.

Also,I never saw SS following us in the middle of the maze by the help of the alts.

The more we run the more he comes..meaning nobody has any chance of doing anything in the open at all.But you are a genius and you figured out he can't attack at the sanctuaries.

I get like >30 stats everyday...and that's why dst and Eon are attacking us.I'm just asking not to use alts for following and not try to threaten people by insults.

[ChildOfTheSoul]

Ow... I've never gotten negative rep before. T_T Anyhow, I'm just saying that the less you run, the less he'll chase you. It's something you have to learn. I was never implying that SS was someone that hounds MP5s, giving them skilldamage.

I was only stating that SS and Eon have skilldamage. Also, if you want to do something about eon, you can get together and needle him. I've seen it done at least twice now. That's a constructive way to lower his skilldamage.

Also, you just said that you gain +30 stats a day, so why does it bother you that much that Eon takes a little bit of that away? I'm saying that you should either sit in a sanctuary, or learn to care less about skilldamage.

[ignnus]

[quote]I'm just saying that the less you run, the less he'll chase you. It's something you have to learn[/quote]
That doesn't make sense to me..I've been attacked by Eon so many times in the park or Goe or anywhere..I got -150 fights in 1 evening only.And I shouldn't run to stir his hunter feelings..Lol what are you talking about?
Maybe he leaves you alone maybe not,he doesn't leave me alone anywhere.

Needle..he'll just log out when there is a serious threat.


[quote]Also, you just said that you gain +30 stats a day, so why does it bother you that much that Eon takes a little bit of that away? I'm saying that you should either sit in a sanctuary, or learn to care less about skilldamage.[/quote]

It doesn't bother me at all as long as we have some chance to be able to run away.
And we get that by running away.otherwise half maybe and lots of lost fights

Edited January 6, 2012 by ignnus

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Rules and Restrictions']
You can have multiple accounts, to try out story, to experince new ways of play etc ..., however if you are detected that you are using them just to help one of your main accounts , all of them including the main will get banned.
[/quote]

In regards to the cases of useing one or more account to either gather information to support the role of a different account of the same persons, or to scout out targets for a different account of the same persons to attack (either through following a player or through attacking them to test defences), both cases are definitely alt abuse.
However, hearsay evidence is not sufficient for a case. For such action to be determined as alt abuse, you must be able to definitively prove that the player is useing the accounts for that purpose.

In regards to lack of social integration within MD being indicative of alt abuse, such a lack of social integration is indicative, however not definitive. By itself, it has no value as proof for or against an argument of alt abuse. However, it may be used as corroborative evidence to prove the accounts only purpose is abuse if definitive evidence of related alt abuse can also be provided.

CLC - Kyphis

Edited January 6, 2012 by Kyphis the Bard

[Brulant]

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325813710' post='99947']
Needle..he'll just log out when there is a serious threat.
[/quote]

Doesn't that mean you win? If you can threaten Eon enough to make Eon log off, then you're definitely accomplishing something.

Edit: Also, now that I've commented, allow me to make a suggestion. Everyone keeps talking about evidence, but what would actually constitute as evidence in a case like this? You're obviously not going to get a written confessional from Eon, so maybe you can start making a file of eyewitness testimonies (If enough people say that they've crossed one of Eon's alts in a remote location and then Eon appears minutes later, it sort of points to some kind of trend, yeah?). And screen caps definitely still carry weight. If you can get a long file of being "stalked" somewhere incredibly remote, then being attacked by Eon, it'd help your case, should you chose to actually start a case…. In a court of law, you still have to prove what is sometimes obvious to you. So, start gathering!

Edited January 6, 2012 by Brulant

[ChildOfTheSoul]

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325813710' post='99947']
That doesn't make sense to me..I've been attacked by Eon so many times in the park or Goe or anywhere..I got -150 fights in 1 evening only.And I shouldn't run to stir his hunter feelings..Lol what are you talking about?
Maybe he leaves you alone, maybe he doesn't. He doesn't leave me alone anywhere.
[/quote]
If you got ofer 150 losses in one evening, my thoughts are that you got at least that many wins, or else you wouldn't be training in the park. I don't think that Eon disturbed your balance, so what is the problem exactly?

And run if you want to, but you seem to think it's futile as well. Rather than run, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Both times that eon has been needled, he has let it happen because it lowers his skilldamage. [spoiler] [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10972-effectiveness-of-the-needle/"]http://magicduel.inv...-of-the-needle/[/url] [/spoiler]

And what am I talking about? I'm talking about the fact that he targets you because you feel like fleeing, rather than taking some hits and pretending for a second that it doesn't matter. Instead you badmouth him and make annoying mood panel posts.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325813710' post='99947']
It doesn't bother me at all as long as we have some chance to be able to run away.
And we get that by running away.otherwise half maybe and lots of lost fights
[/quote]

So wait, it both bothers you and doesn't bother you? You have some chance of running away, or else you wouldn't be trying anymore. Eon seems to irritate you despite the fact that you can run, albeit it requires extreme effort.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ChildOfTheSoul

[ignnus]

[quote]And run if you want to, but you seem to think it's futile as well. Rather than run, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. .[/quote]

I want to run,I do run,I don't think it's futile and I think we running away is the best thing we can do.DO SOMETHING LIKE WHAT?

[quote]Both times that eon has been needled, he has let it happen because it lowers his skilldamage [/quote]
So thanks..He is so understanding...But why the Pm block and attitude..I'm ready to train with him anytime with some cooperation from him.

[quote]he targets you because you feel like fleeing.[/quote]

I don't care why he does what.I don't have an obligation to....stand and enjoy the Eon's blessing
I want to flee because I want to..why is it so bad?You own me or something?

[quote]So wait, it both bothers you and doesn't bother you? You have some chance of running away, or else you wouldn't be trying anymore. Eon seems to irritate you despite the fact that you can run, albeit it requires extreme effort.[/quote]

It doesn't bother me unless he doesn't plays by the rules..I wasn't the one who started this topic

Edited January 6, 2012 by ignnus

[ChildOfTheSoul]

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325817689' post='99980']

I want to run,I do run,I don't think it's futile and I think we running away is the best thing we can do.DO SOMETHING LIKE WHAT?
[/quote]

Like needle him, ignore him, etc. I've told you to needle him if you want to complain three times this thread.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325817689' post='99980']
So thanks..He is so understanding...But why the Pm block and attitude..I'm ready to train with him anytime with some cooperation from him.
[/quote]

I'm not the person to judge his attitude or the reason that he blocks his PMs. I'm not an Eon advocate. Some people just like to go it alone, and I accept that.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325817689' post='99980']
I don't care why he does what.I don't have an obligation to....stand and enjoy the Eon's blessing
I want to flee because I want to..why is it so bad?You own me or something?
[/quote]

Quite the contrary, actually. You care a lot about what Eon does. I'm saying instead of "flight", you should fight... or suffer quietly. I don't own you, but I strongly suggest things because I know that running is more frustrating than taking some skilldamage.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325817689' post='99980']
It doesn't bother me unless he plays by the rules..I wasn't the one who started this topic.
[/quote]
UNLESS he plays by the rules? I think you mean if he plays by the rules, but correct me if I'm wrong. It seems to me like he's not exploiting bugs or doing anything that the game terms "illegal". So he's playing by the rules.

[ignnus]

[quote]Quite the contrary, actually. You care a lot about what Eon does. I'm saying instead of "flight", you should fight... or suffer quietly. I don't own you, but I strongly suggest things because I know that running is more frustrating than taking some skilldamage.[/quote]

Fight with Eon how?Why is the flight so wrong/bad until we can really fight?

I don't care what he does really.I like he contributes and likes the game and that's it.

Running is not frustrating it's actually quite good.I doubt you even tried it.

[quote]Like needle him, ignore him, etc. I've told you to needle him if you want to complain three times this thread.[/quote]

This is hard.Check your own spoiler link..4 cause counts for park full of people.

[quote]UNLESS he plays by the rules? I think you mean if he plays by the rules, but correct me if I'm wrong. It seems to me like he's not exploiting bugs or doing anything that the game terms "illegal". So he's playing by the rules.[/quote]

Yeah he's great..and I'm sorry about the moodpanels.Won't happen again

[ChildOfTheSoul]

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325818967' post='99988']

Fight with Eon how?Why is the flight so wrong/bad until we can really fight?

I don't care what he does really.I like he contributes and likes the game and that's it.

Running is not frustrating it's actually quite good.I doubt you even tried it.
[/quote]

I tried running with a training group, it didn't suit me. I'm not judging you for running, just do it quietly.


[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325818967' post='99988']
(regarding the needle) This is hard.Check your own spoiler link..4 cause counts for park full of people.
[/quote]

I was there. The park wasn't that full. There was me and some people from CotE. Also, just because it's hard doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Training is hard, running is even harder. The important thing is that you do it, not that it's difficult.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325818967' post='99988']
Yeah he's great..and I'm sorry about the moodpanels.Won't happen again
[/quote]
Sarcasm, I take it. Unfortunately there's not a font. If you stop the moodpanel posts, great. That's one less source of negativity.

[ignnus]

[quote]I was there. The park wasn't that full. There was me and some people from CotE. Also, just because it's hard doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. The important thing is that you do it, not that it's difficult.[/quote]

It was quite full I remember 6-7 lines of people.And I attacked 2 times.

[quote]Training is hard, running is even harder [/quote]
Thanks for the enlightening wisdom..You don't know what are you talking about.

[quote]Sarcasm, I take it. Unfortunately there's not a font. If you stop the moodpanel posts, great. That's one less source of negativity.[/quote]

Yeah I'm negative and stopped happy now?

[Quas]

I am honestly getting tired of this topic, seeing ignnus screaming around then calming down , then screaming and calming in the same post even, doesn't do good to my health :/ ( )

Will this topic reach any point or are you just going to argue around because you want your number of posts high? ...

I vote for closing this topic since it leads nowhere.

[ChildOfTheSoul]

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325819778' post='99996']

It was quite full I remember 6-7 lines of people.And I attacked 2 times.
[/quote]
Maybe that was a different attempt, because I don't remember thirty-something people there. Oh well, at least they did it. A full park doesn't necessarily mean there were that many awake and willing MP5s.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325819778' post='99996']
Thanks for the enlightening wisdom..You don't know what are you talking about.
[/quote]

I can try to be a LITTLE inspirational. But seriously, I'm not going to let this conversation degrade to the level of a joke. Stop acting like a petulant child and discuss this like a rational human being.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325819778' post='99996']
Yeah I'm negative and stopped happy now?
[/quote]

Sure. I'm done being political now, I guess. Unless I need to defend myself some more.

Edit: and I agree with quashen. I was supposed to post one thing, but I ended up having to answer to iggnus. It wasn't to make my posts any higher, though. Quality over quantity.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ChildOfTheSoul

[ignnus]

[quote]I vote for closing this topic since it leads nowhere. [/quote]

We are just talking here...stop hating for a moment.

[quote]I can try to be a LITTLE inspirational. But seriously, I'm not going to let this conversation degrade to the level of a joke. Stop acting like a petulant child and discuss this like a rational human being.[/quote]

I'm a very rational person..more than some people can take sometimes.
Just be a little more inspirational please..I'm sure I'll see things your way if you force me.

[quote]Edit: and I agree with quashen. I was supposed to post one thing, but I ended up having to answer to iggnus. It wasn't to make my posts any higher, though. Quality over quantity.[/quote]

You are the first one so by this logic i have right to answer..unless that's not rational.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ignnus

[ChildOfTheSoul]

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325820718' post='100004']
I'm a very rational person..more than some people can take sometimes.
Just be a little more inspirational please..I'm sure I'll see things your way if you force me.
[/quote]

The irrationality point was more spiteful than true, I admit. I'm not forcing anything, merely stating my opinion on the matter. If you don't want to see things the way I perceive them to be, that's your choice, I might not be right.

[quote name='ignnus' timestamp='1325820718' post='100004']
You are the first one so by this logic i have right to answer..unless that's not rational.
[/quote]

The first post I made in this topic was not directed at you, rather at the overall topic. My solution is to stop posting in this topic. This is my last post, and if you have anything more to discuss with me, personal or otherwise I would appreciate it if you would say so via forum or in-game pm. Thank you.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ChildOfTheSoul

[ignnus]

Sure I agree!Let's stop.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ignnus

[Rumi]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1325803062' post='99867']
I don't have the time to play. He does.Maybe he tests the viscosity or ap or <insert reason here> with his alts.
[/quote]
I hadn't thought about this prior to dst's post, but Eon's (and possibly everyone else's) use of alts might be considered an abuse because of the implementation of viscosity. If Eon walks to a scene on which his alt previously walked, it requires less AP and makes movement easier...a DIRECT benefit.

In this way, every player's use of alts likely provides benefit to the main if they visit the same scenes and those scenes have a viscosity greater than 0.

I think there are some ways in which this could be dealt with, but none are foolproof or without drawbacks.

It's possible that two characters of the same player could be prosecuted for being seen at the same scene within the timespan of a viscosity recharge (I forget if it's 30 min or 60 min). However this would not take into account that a player can visit a scene many times to lower the viscosity (unless I am mistaken and viscosity can only be lowered by each unique player per recharge period). In this case, the recharge period would be irrelevant. One or more alts could lower the viscosity of a scene significantly, paving the way for a main to walk where they want.

I'd like to know what everyone thinks about viscosity and alt abuse, or if there has been any word on this from Mur or the Council.

Mods, feel free to move this post to it's own thread if you feel it merits discussion.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Rumi

[Pipstickz]

Great thread dst, I see you're back to picking on whoever you don't like, as long as they can't fight back. Bravo indeed, you have a very special talent for fighting when there's nothing to lose. It's clear your punishment last time didn't change anything for you, and even though the announcement says "next time will be worse" ([color="#CCCCCC"]Ann. 2017 - [2011-09-19 15:29:32 - Stage 11][/color]) , I highly doubt anything will be done.

You want hypocrisy? Look at the person with the role dedicated to finding abuse asking someone for proof of abuse. Either you already know that there's no abuse and you just like making others look stupid, or you just don't care to look because you like Eon. I wouldn't put either one past you, though I find the former much more likely, because both you and Eon just love seeing people look stupid when they get frustrated with you.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Rumi' timestamp='1325824170' post='100020']
I hadn't thought about this prior to dst's post, but Eon's (and possibly everyone else's) use of alts might be considered an abuse because of the implementation of viscosity. If Eon walks to a scene on which his alt previously walked, it requires less AP and makes movement easier...a DIRECT benefit.

In this way, every player's use of alts likely provides benefit to the main if they visit the same scenes and those scenes have a viscosity greater than 0.

I think there are some ways in which this could be dealt with, but none are foolproof or without drawbacks.

It's possible that two characters of the same player could be prosecuted for being seen at the same scene within the timespan of a viscosity recharge (I forget if it's 30 min or 60 min). However this would not take into account that a player can visit a scene many times to lower the viscosity (unless I am mistaken and viscosity can only be lowered by each unique player per recharge period). In this case, the recharge period would be irrelevant. One or more alts could lower the viscosity of a scene significantly, paving the way for a main to walk where they want.

I'd like to know what everyone thinks about viscosity and alt abuse, or if there has been any word on this from Mur or the Council.

Mods, feel free to move this post to it's own thread if you feel it merits discussion.
[/quote]

One unique player can lower the viscosity by one, it seems to do some kind of alt check or something, because i was unable to low the viscosity multiple times with multiple alts within the same recharge period.
However, if my alts ran ahead, it would lower it partially, but i found that it did not make any big difference to moving around due to the number of alts needed to make it effective and/or noticeable.

[dst]

Ok so the conclusion is this one: you can't prove Eon is using alts to benefit his main. You do not have solid proofs otherwise you would have probably opened a case against him. What you do? You start screaming that he's being protected because he's a supporter and you stand no chance in a trial. How LAME is that? And how coward do you look?
You simply make me sick!

YOU accuse Eon of being guilty! YOU need to prove he's guilty. So stop the bs by asking HIM to provide proofs that he's NOT guilty when you can prove he is.

Edited January 6, 2012 by dst

[Passant the Weak]

I, for one, am not asking Eon to prove he is [s]guilty [/s]innocent ([size=2][i]edited[/i][/size]). I have just asked 2 questions in page 2 of that thread, that answering of would probably close the discussion. We are not in a trial here dst, unless I understood your thread wrong. But in a discussion within the community. I remind my questions:
[quote]Are you using your ALTS to spot activity in different areas so that you know what's hoing on and your main can go wherever there is something to get?
Have you been using your ALT to record data about shared items abuse in the log room? That benefitted to your main (if you ever got a bounty, that is!)[/quote]

That would harm nobody to just answer that, would it ? It's just simple questions on what people called out in your initial post seem to have issue with.

Of course you can chose to stay on general things like "everyone is innocent unless proven guilty", "people will never say they abuse ALTs", "people are coward and complain about nothing", "people can use ALTs for whatever they want they don't have to state how" etc, etc, etc.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Passant the Weak