A New Public Council?

[Chewett]

At the current time, out of the 4 public council members who originally stood we have one member, Syrian.  This is in no way demeaning or being rude towards the other members who stood down or went inactive. I have been exceptionally happy and proud of the work that has been done by this first generation of the PC. The question I have now is whether  there is a point to make a second generation.
 
Before I created the idea of Public Council I spoke with the Council and Mur. The premise was to create a council like structure but make it entirely public, Having their names, jobs and voting public. In this respect the PC worked quite well. However, one of the issues Mur raised was that, unlike council, The members would not be chosen for having skills to manage, organise, and do things in MD, but by some arbitrary judgement from the public. He didn't believe that the public would be able to choose people who would be able to work together and get work done like the council does.
 
It was unfortunate that Zyr went inactive pretty soon after it was formed and Maeb had to resign due to getting busy IRL. This crippled the PC pretty quickly in terms of losing half of their workforce, but also was a unique opportunity, It made their organisation a lot easier to manage because all their decisions only had to be agreed by the two of them. The organisation of the group took a long period of time and this caused problems with deciding on issues. Many ideas were discussed but after being discussed once they were never looked back on, and readied so they could be implemented. This is something that a future PC or group needs to remember that they cant just discuss every idea that comes along, but needs to actually see ideas through to the end.
 
So, In dissection of the PC I see the issue that the players were picked by the public and do not necessarily have the skills needed to function as an entity deciding things in MD. This is where the bonus of Mur picking the council comes in, He choose people who can get things done, understand organisation and plans.
 
Currently I dont think that a publically voted group of peolpe will satisfy these problems of having skills becuase the public doesnt nesscarily vote for people who can do the job well. To quote Douglas Adams "it is a well-known fact that those people who must to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."
 

So, While I still like the concept of a PC, I'm unsure if it can be done in a nice way. Here suggestions are welcome to try and improve it, If people want to volunteer for a new round of voting feel free to, because unless there are actually people who want to go for the vote then its not going to be implemented anyway. My current thoughts is that instead of having a public council, I shall continue to create authorities that I or the council are responsible for. These will be people who have shown their ability to manage tasks nicely and will be able to the the job given to them. The most recent example is Nim being awarded her role for her exceptional good work with quest creation and organisation.

 

Comments are welcome, Im currently thinking about how we proceed.

 
 
Full Quote:
 
“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. 
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. 
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.” 
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

[dst]

No. This experiment failed. Let's bury it and put a cross on top. Let's try the other idea you had with the groups of players. That should work. It already has actually. TKs, LHO's, those guys that have no name but award quest creators and probably even our old group of lawyers.

[rikstar]

I agree on dst, just give players that contribute to the community in a positive way more power.

[Sephirah Caelum]

I like the idea of the PC because is a good way to train/learn about leadership, organization/decision of public matters exterior to our own interest (of course when things get only for the satisfaction of the PC's members, they  risk loose their authority).

 

The problem of RL matters turning players inactive is like death, there is no solution and will keep happening no matter how much we try to stop or slow down it. It will happen with all and everyone, it even happened with the Concil, Mur, and even Zleiphneir (or is he/she around?).

 

Said that, I think that Nim's new role is ok, and others could keep going on, I even believe this will make people wish to stay longer in the game. And the Public Council is ok, too; If I read right the problem was because the IRL problem's, there was no others matters and if we are going to stop cool things just because people from one way or other eventually die, we should turn off the light and close the door.

[Chewett]

I like the idea of the PC because is a good way to train/learn about leadership, organization/decision of public matters exterior to our own interest (of course when things get only for the satisfaction of the PC's members, they  risk loose their authority).

 

Yes I agree with this, However I devoted quite a large amount of time to organising them and getting them "ready", E.g. I normally had a 3 hour meeting with them every week which I could have spent time on coding (for them or generally).

 

 

And the Public Council is ok, too; If I read right the problem was because the IRL problem's, there was no others matters and if we are going to stop cool things just because people from one way or other eventually die, we should turn off the light and close the door.

 

There was organisational issues as described above, Nothing actually gone done because each idea was talked about and then "stored" and never looked at again. Time wasnt used as efficiently as it could have been in the PC.

 

The RL problems, as I said above, made it worse and better. Its much easier to get a consensus and do stuff if you are a group of two that needs to agree on things.

[Rophs]

I think we should elect two more volunteers (or maybe Chew can voluntell some people)

[Chewett]

I think we should elect two more volunteers (or maybe Chew can voluntell some people)

Two more? In a specific category? The idea of having 4 was to ensure that no vote would be "won" by two people siding on one side. It means things are thought through more rather than two people just steamrolling things.

[Eagle Eye]

Major major is a big problem. But I'm hopping chewett can solve the problem with help the public council. Stick together

[Chewett]

Major major is a big problem. But I'm hopping chewett can solve the problem with help the public council. Stick together

Why with a PC? Why not any number of other ways?

[Blackthorn]

Why not elect 2 members to PC and have Chew/Mur appoint 2 members?  The appointed member could be changed as needed and could replace Chewy having to spend so much time with the PC.  That way the interests of the players and the admin are represented in decision making process.

 

I also think that anytime a member of the PC, whether elected or appointed needs to stand down, a new member should be elected/appointed in their place.

Also for the need to share the load, temporary commitees could be created by the PC to carry out projects based upon their skill sets. 

 

Seems to me that the council was not a failure, only the implementation of policys and powers needed to keep the council viable were lacking. 

I think Syrian (and Chewy) did an awesome job for all MD people and we owe her (and him) a debt of gratitude.  Great job!!

Edited January 18, 2014 by Blackthorn

[Eagle Eye]

Why with a PC? Why not any number of other ways?

Public council is a public council this can be epic to those active. If we need more? It is work? The real life are problem but we try our all best to fulfill our duty

[Sephirah Caelum]

 

 

Yes I agree with this, However I devoted quite a large amount of time to organising them and getting them "ready", E.g. I normally had a 3 hour meeting with them every week which I could have spent time on coding (for them or generally).

 

Ok, 3 hours/week for meeting is too long, at least in my experience with my RL team. My problem different of yours is that I'm the new one who have to adapt until the others understand that we don't need all this time to talk about our and others problems.

 

Since we are in a game the time of reunion with this new council should be shorter to 1 hour/ maybe less per week. Maybe even dividing the time of the matters to be decided (there is so many matters for decision??).

 

 

here was organisational issues as described above, Nothing actually gone done because each idea was talked about and then "stored" and never looked at again. Time wasnt used as efficiently as it could have been in the PC.

 

The RL problems, as I said above, made it worse and better. Its much easier to get a consensus and do stuff if you are a group of two that needs to agree on things.

 

Ohhh...so I read it partially right!!!  ^_^ Sorry!

 

Yeah it is easier to take decision with less people, but even when you have something like 10 to 13 persons into a reunion, things get easier when some issues already have a common way of functioning, there is one person to put things on track when people are walking to the blablabla direction, even to put a time limit. Of course when everyone is new on the experience things will get more time to get fine.

 

I still think that 01 experience with the PC is sufficient to say it is a failure.

 

But is you, Chewett, who better knows if you are up to coordinate other PC. 

[Pipstickz]

What about having a coordinator besides Chew that could direct conversations and try to keep focus, then relay necessary information to relevant parties?

[Chewett]

Ok, 3 hours/week for meeting is too long, at least in my experience with my RL team. My problem different of yours is that I'm the new one who have to adapt until the others understand that we don't need all this time to talk about our and others problems.

Yes, I said this to them repeatedly about the meetings being too long but they always ran on.

Since we are in a game the time of reunion with this new council should be shorter to 1 hour/ maybe less per week. Maybe even dividing the time of the matters to be decided (there is so many matters for decision??).

I was attempting to get them to follow a meeting format, agenda and such, and a couple of the times i pushed/ran it myself to ensure it stayed to time, but I really didnt have time to do that each week, and like most meetings with people not used to holding them, they get caught on little things.

Yeah it is easier to take decision with less people, but even when you have something like 10 to 13 persons into a reunion, things get easier when some issues already have a common way of functioning, there is one person to put things on track when people are walking to the blablabla direction, even to put a time limit. Of course when everyone is new on the experience things will get more time to get fine.

Thats essentially what i was trying to do. 

I still think that 01 experience with the PC is sufficient to say it is a failure.

But is you, Chewett, who better knows if you are up to coordinate other PC.

Im not sure what you mean here.
 

What about having a coordinator besides Chew that could direct conversations and try to keep focus, then relay necessary information to relevant parties?

This would be great, Ideally just to ensure that it stays in a nice meeting format. Although During the meetings they would be asking me questions, But if it was nicely agendaed and had a good chair that could work.

[Curiose]

Is it necessary to have more than two?

You mentioned previously it worked more fluently [albeit put more work effort] with just two?

[Chewett]

Is it necessary to have more than two?
You mentioned previously it worked more fluently [albeit put more work effort] with just two?

It "could" work more fluidly with two. I didnt say it did.

[Curiose]

Oh, okay. I must have misread.

 

edit:

Wasn't the PC kind of like a test to see how a council would work if it was public? Kind of like doing a scientific test of sorts?

Can we say for sure the results were/were not conclusive?

If not conclusive, then maybe a round two would be necessary to see if this is viable option?

Edited January 19, 2014 by Curiose

[Chewett]

Oh, okay. I must have misread.
 
edit:
Wasn't the PC kind of like a test to see how a council would work if it was public? Kind of like doing a scientific test of sorts?
Can we say for sure the results were/were not conclusive?
If not conclusive, then maybe a round two would be necessary to see if this is viable option?

Not really, there were a number of key differences between PC and council, the primary one being how they are chosen.

[Nimrodel]

Ok.. I haven't read all of what's poster above, but I think you should decide what's more convenient for you and more effective Chewett. If you think it makes life easier for you, get help and name it pc. Else chuck the plan. Pc doesnt need to be created for the public popularity PC needs to be created to make work easier.

[Kaya]

What about not recruiting public council members, but recruiting for actual positions inside the PC? For example have one coordinator, one coder, one person in charge of PR and say one treasurer. That way it is clear who is responsible for what, so it is easier to get things done and people can be scouted for the specific skills needed for each position.

[Chewett]

What about not recruiting public council members, but recruiting for actual positions inside the PC? For example have one coordinator, one coder, one person in charge of PR and say one treasurer. That way it is clear who is responsible for what, so it is easier to get things done and people can be scouted for the specific skills needed for each position.

That is essentially the second proposal, Just be creating a number of non PC groups, like nims new role. Unless you are suggesting they need to be in a PC like group in some way?

[rikstar]

The game needs more updates, and I think that anybody wants that. If we make a new council it would only delay most of the updates. So make some groups that could organize quests and events without the need of Chewett and Mur. We all have good ideas, but we do not have the time to implemented.

[Nimrodel]

The game needs more updates, and I think that anybody wants that. If we make a new council it would only delay most of the updates. So make some groups that could organize quests and events without the need of Chewett and Mur. We all have good ideas, but we do not have the time to implemented.

Any quest ideas, plesse pm me in game or in forum. I'll try my best to help you with implementation or if you want help refining the idea.

[Sephirah Caelum]

Im not sure what you mean here.

 

 

 

 

 

I ate some words :D

 

Should be written: I still think that 01 experience with the PC is INsufficient to say it is a failure.

[Kaya]

That is essentially the second proposal, Just be creating a number of non PC groups, like nims new role. Unless you are suggesting they need to be in a PC like group in some way?

 

They don't really need to form a council, but I do believe it would be good to have some central organisation. (Normal council could take on that role, but because they're unknown there also is a certain distance to the normal folks.)

 

The council could very well (partially) exist of representatives from such groups. For example the treasurer could be someone from the Treasure Keepers. The PC will then be able to make decisions that go beyond the individual groups, but should be able to delegate the work back to them, making it easier to actually get things done.