Ivorak Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) I need you to do the following: 1. If you are listed as a granting authority or confirming authority, for all such titles post whether or not you are willing to take a part in the granting of that title. 2. Note any errors/discrepancies in titles/tags. 3. Suggest a different granting authority/confirming authority if there is a more suitable role. Null values are only permitted if Mur is the granting authority. 4. Suggest further titles to be granted. This list is still incomplete. (There are about 200 titles to be given out, this list currently only has 50 listed. I thought I'd post before I went to bed.) One way to help is to confirm activity/tag text for the players listed (or not listed) here: https://titanpad.com/OR5EOoBWdW At this time, avoid voting on who should or should not receive titles. Each title shall be put to a vote, to be considered by Mur, but we'll hold that off a little longer so we can do it in a more organized fashion. View the list here: https://titanpad.com/A2GfPvEanN. Please avoid editing the document directly and instead leave comments in this forum thread. When I have more time I will provide other lists based on this data to make sorting through it easier. Edit: my previous edit to replace the Google Docs link with TitanPad, replaced the text but kept the same href in the hyperlink. Oops. Edited August 28, 2014 by Ivorak Eagle Eye and Azthor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFH Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I am terribly Busy IRL. Can't take part as an authority for Titles. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowseeker Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'm currently listed for Rikstar, and I'd like to state that I am only willing to confirm for people who have the Knights Order flag, which does not include Rikstar. (Is it possible to put the document elsewhere as well, like in titanpad? I can't access google docs atm and had to ask someone for help with that) { "title": "Leader of KoB", "recipient": "Rikstar", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Princ Rhaegar", "confirming authority": "Shadowseeker" } }, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azull Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) This one should be removed. (at Ary's request the tag is already gone) "title": "The King's Bard", "recipient": "Ary Endleg", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Azull", "confirming authority": "Peace" Edited August 26, 2014 by Azull Ary Endleg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorak Posted August 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I swapped the Google Drive link with a TitanPad link. Please avoid editing the TitanPad directly and instead leave comments in this forum thread. Ary's title has been removed. Shadowseeker has been removed as an authority on Rikstar's title. BFH has been removed whereover he was listed as an authority. Keep the comments coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 { "title": "Chief Voidling", "recipient": "Granos", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } I was just throwing out what he should get it for, i don't think he'd appreciate the term 'Chief Voidling' on his doc :)) He still goes by Seeker of the Void :)) { "title": "Protector of Golemus", "recipient": "MRD", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Grido", "confirming authority": "Burns" } I don't think it would be right for me to confirm the title of somebody who got to this position way before i ever did anything remotely interesting. I think i wasn't even in Guerilla by the time MRD got his own ally already. Maybe yrth and grido would work, or mur and yrth/grido. I don't think that should be me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrigue Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Title: Guardian's Echo Recipient: WHisper Authorities: Granting authority: Zleiphneir Confirming authority: Intrigue I honestly don't know if I'm qualified to confirm this title (it was awarded to WHisper during my prolonged absence), However, I can do so, if needed, based upon my own observances over the last 10 months or so. *edited for spelling Edited August 26, 2014 by Intrigue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grido Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 { "title": "Protector of Golemus", "recipient": "MRD", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Grido", "confirming authority": "Burns" } I don't think it would be right for me to confirm the title of somebody who got to this position way before i ever did anything remotely interesting. I think i wasn't even in Guerilla by the time MRD got his own ally already. Maybe yrth and grido would work, or mur and yrth/grido. I don't think that should be me. This was before I assumed control as well, I'm thinking Mur/Yrth would be best combination. "title": "Seedwalker", "recipient": "Rophs", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Handy Pockets", "confirming authority": "Grido" Whilst he's a citizen of my land, I'm not sure I have any real right to have anything to do with the seeds. I'll leave that up to Kets though. "title": "LHO Second in Command", "recipient": "Burns", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Grido", "confirming authority": "BFH" } BFH removed himself, so aside from him, a confirming could be... Chewett potentially, or Nimrodel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 27, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'm currently listed for Rikstar, and I'd like to state that I am only willing to confirm for people who have the Knights Order flag, which does not include Rikstar. (Is it possible to put the document elsewhere as well, like in titanpad? I can't access google docs atm and had to ask someone for help with that)Why would SS, a non MB citizen confirm a MB alliance position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 27, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Furthermore to the above point, You should make all alliance member "titles" follow the same pattern of confirmation. Aka confirmation 1, land leader. confirmation 2: second land leader/none { "title": "Sky Scouter", "recipient": "AmberRune", "authorities": { "granting authority": null, "confirming authority": null } } Mur granting auth ----- { "title": "Former Boss Heads Master", "recipient": "Eon", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, confirm: council ----- { "title": "MasterChief", "recipient": "phantasm", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": "Granos" } }, Not granos, he isnt "in charge of phantam" to confirm ---- { "title": "Co Leader of the Treasure Keepers", "recipient": "Pipstickz", "authorities": { "granting authority": "BFH", "confirming authority": "Chewett" } }, granting council, BFH and I were not involed --- { "title": "Abetter", "recipient": "No one", "authorities": { "granting authority": "dst", "confirming authority": null } }, granting Mur ----- { "title": "Resurrected Corpse", "recipient": "Lazarus", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Granos", "confirming authority": "Peace" } }, peace, lol no ---- { "title": "LHO Second in Command", "recipient": "Burns", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Grido", "confirming authority": "BFH" } }, BFH no, council told grido he needed a second in command as he was so inactive ---- { "title": "DracHorn Master", "recipient": "Burns", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": "BFH" } }, BFH no --- { "title": "King of Golemus Golemicarum", "recipient": "Grido", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, Grido never aksed council to confirm his appointment, so its unoffical atm FYI ---- { "title": "Avatar Manager", "recipient": "Neno Veliki", "authorities": { "granting authority": "BFH", "confirming authority": "Azull" } }, BFH NO Azull NO ----- It seems you keep adding BFH as a second in command for most things... dont. The doc is widely wrong here guys.... you just seem to add BFH for everything and then random other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 27, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Question: Who added BFH to everything?It appears like people just randomly added friends of those who had tags...You should take each tag based on how they were given and how it fits in.Aka all the most recent authorities such as tk and avatar people are council, not Mur or BFh...The alliance leaders should get tags from kings, Kings should from counci unless they are old kings, in which case Mur.Some land members should get tags from kings.Misc tags mostly come from Mur or council. Kyphis the Bard and dst 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorak Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I will respond / edit the doc for each post shortly, but there are a few important issues to be sorted out. I'll explain the problems which lead to this messiness and then you can correct me or suggest fixes. 1. Mur wants existing tags to become titles, so some shoehorning of old roles into the new hierarchy may be necessary. 2. I need to check this with Mur, but I don't think council can be an authority because it's not an individual and the individuals who it consists of are secret. 3. Alliance leaders should come from kings/land leaders, unless that the alliance has no higher authority. 4. If all miscellaneous tags come from Mur or the Council, that doesn't allow for one of the primary goals of the titles, which is a self emergent hierarchy in the realm. 5. All titles that don't come directly from Mur are required to have two signators (a granting authority and a confirming authority). If I didn't include two above it's because I couldn't think of a suitable authority (as you've noticed, I should have written in a lot more nulls). The whole title system is a mess because it needs to take in account existing systems, and because it doesn't represent purely political roles (otherwise we'd just go kings as the first tier and then on down). For example, Avatar Manager might have a granting authority who has the role of Master Artist but there is no Master Artist. Grido never aksed council to confirm his appointment, so its unoffical atm FYI I'm glad you brought this up. I tried asking the council about this and never got a response so I instead "confirmed" with a poll of some citizens. I should definitely have gone to you but lost track of that thought in the shuffle of everything else. Keep the comments coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 28, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 You didnt actually reply to one of the more important comments regarding why some decisions where made.Really you should include a logical reason why X can sign for Y. Then we can disucss the things easier than just looking and not understanding why choices were made.Are you just reviewing and deciding if you like the feedback? I dont see anyone actually being told yes/no with their feedback.---Now onto the actaual format, requiring two signitories, Mur is trying to force one system into another. In your example of "avatar master" "master artist" is entirely correct, and there is no way you can do that if you want to follow how things actually developed if you dont want to take into account council.Its all well and good saying "this will create a social structure" but when you randomly create it and not make it follow how the social structure was created, then you are going to make something that wont mean anything. At a push I could sign for artesian since I and council discussed we needed some people, and the people we selected... but thats all.It looks like you are just making BFH a GM, so I congratulate him on his new position. Ary Endleg and dst 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 28, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I have discussed my concerns with Mur and he should reply shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted August 28, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 from now on, having someone to 'confirm' the granting of a tag, will be a manadatory reuirement to grant a role. Till now such a requirement didn't exist, but all tags given so far will be backed up by me or by anyone else that makes more sense to confirm that role. If the owner of the tag has citizenship, the granting authority will probably be the king of the land he belongs to. If a king has something against a tag of a citizen, this should be clarified now. For tags that you don't know who to put as confirming authority, i be the confirming authority for now. Later on i will try to confirm only main roles such as kings and other high-authority roles. Please do not put random granting authorities on the list (such as bfh), leave blank where uncertain. It will take some time till this list will be accurate, but as long as someone still has anything to comment to it, titles won't be sent out. Because Council does not have a main character to represent it , I will be the one granting the roles given by the council directly. Chewett and Kyphis the Bard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 28, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) I have went through them all and added comments where iv changed things, please comment on them back. The comments can be quickly stripped with a quick command (I can show you that if you dont know it, so use them!) Please add these into the document if approved, or question then individually if there is an issue with my reasoning. My changes follow an email exchange with Mur and his above post. ---- { "titles": [ { "title": "MDA Land Leader", "recipient": "Kyphis", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //reason: Mur grants land leader "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Seed Keeper", "recipient": "Handy Pockets", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "King of Necrovion", "recipient": "Azull", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Queen of Necrovion", "recipient": "Peace", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Leader of the Underground", "recipient": "dst", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Bug Catcher", "recipient": "dst", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": "Chewett" } }, { "title": "Watching You", "recipient": "dst", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null //removed me, Why would I confirm this? } }, { "title": "Judge", "recipient": "dst", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Judge", "recipient": "Ailith", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Judge", "recipient": "Granos", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Chief Voidling", "recipient": "Granos", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "The King's Bard", "recipient": "Ary Endleg", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Azull", "confirming authority": "Peace" } }, { "title": "Tainted", "recipient": "Assira the Black", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Granos", "confirming authority": "Ailith" } }, { "title": "MDA Land Leader", "recipient": "darkraptor", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Gardener of MDA Garden", "recipient": "Kempiniukas", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Kyphis", "confirming authority": "Handy Pockets" } }, { "title": "Vigilant Guardian", "recipient": "Intrigue", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Zleiphneir", "confirming authority": "Peace" //reasons: why? } }, { "title": "Freelance Artist", "recipient": "gonzalocsdf", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //mya and BFH do not fit here, Mur "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Garden Keeper", "recipient": "Menhir", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Handy Pockets", "confirming authority": "Zleiphneir" } }, { "title": "Consul of Loreroot", "recipient": "Mya Celestia", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Water Dowser Leader", "recipient": "nadrolski", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Princ Rhaegar", "confirming authority": "Handy Pockets" } }, { "title": "King of Marind Bell", "recipient": "Princ Rhaegar", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Code Guardian", "recipient": "Chewett", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Former Queen of Marind Bell", "recipient": "Handy Pockets", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": "Princ Rhaegar" } }, { "title": "Former King of Marind Bell", "recipient": "Chewett", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": "Princ Rhaegar" } }, { "title": "Avatar Manager", "recipient": "Neno Veliki", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //NOT BFH OR AZULL PEOPLE, MUR "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Master Advertiser", "recipient": "BFH", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Seedwalker", "recipient": "Rophs", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Handy Pockets", "confirming authority": null //not grido, give reasons if you want to nominate } }, { "title": "King of Golemus Golemicarum", "recipient": "Grido", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Head LHO", "recipient": "Grido", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "DracHorn Master", "recipient": "Burns", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null //NOT BFH } }, { "title": "Ardent Knight", "recipient": "Burns", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": "Shadowseeker" //shouldnt it be the other way around? SS granted, mur confirms? } }, { "title": "LHO Second in Command", "recipient": "Burns", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Grido", "confirming authority": null //NOT BFH } }, { "title": "Knight of the Hunt", "recipient": "Shadowseeker", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Resurrected Corpse", "recipient": "Lazarus", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Granos", "confirming authority": "Peace" } }, { "title": "Protector of Golemus", "recipient": "MRD", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //Grido/burns too young, needs to be Murry "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Former Leader of the MR's", "recipient": "MRD", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //Grido too young, NOT BFH, needs to be Murry "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "MR's Commander", "recipient": "MRAlyon", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //Grido too young, Not MRD as inactive, needs to be Murry "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Judge", "recipient": "Granos", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Abetter", "recipient": "No one", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //Mur gave it not dst "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Co Leader of the Treasure Keepers", "recipient": "Pipstickz", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //No it was council not BFH "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "MasterChief", "recipient": "phantasm", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null //granos isnt involved with this } }, { "title": "Leader of KoB", "recipient": "Rikstar", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Princ Rhaegar", "confirming authority": null //no SS as that doesnt fit with plans } }, { "title": "Child of Necrovion", "recipient": "Syrian", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Peace", "confirming authority": "Azull" } }, { "title": "Guardian's Echo", "recipient": "WHIsper", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Zleiphneir", "confirming authority": "Intrigue" } }, { "title": "Guardian of Bob", "recipient": "Zleiphneir", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Concierge", "recipient": "Miq", "authorities": { "granting authority": "BFH", //REASONS: ???? "confirming authority": "phantasm" } }, { "title": "Former Boss Heads Master", "recipient": "Eon", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Son of the Storms", "recipient": "Marvolo", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //Mur gave this out "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "King Guard", "recipient": "Clock Master", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Princ Rhaegar", "confirming authority": "Rikstar" } }, { "title": "Sky Scouter", "recipient": "AmberRune", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", //Mur gave this out "confirming authority": null } } ] } Edited August 28, 2014 by Chewett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azull Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) as stated before this one should be removed from the list. title": "The King's Bard", "recipient": "Ary Endleg", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Azull", "confirming authority": "Peace" "title": "Child of Necrovion", "recipient": "Syrian", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Peace", "confirming authority": "Azull" Authorities listed in the wrong order. That said. I'm not sure this particular tag is worthy of a title.. (im talking about the tag and what it means. NOT the person) Edited August 28, 2014 by Azull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 { "title": "Chief Voidling", "recipient": "Granos", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } }, { "title": "Ardent Knight", "recipient": "Burns", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": "Shadowseeker" //shouldnt it be the other way around? SS granted, mur confirms? } }, For the first, it's NOT chief voidling, and the longer you leave that on the list, the likelier it'll end up on the doc, which will lead to Granos hating me for eternity, so please fix that :P For the second, i'm not sure how it technically worked about the tag, but as far as i know mur didn't play any part in that one, he gave tools to shadow to use as he saw fit. Adding the tag and desc. might have been akasha, i can't remember for sure, but the flag and the 'rights' to the tag, if you like, was shadow alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted August 28, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 (good, leave blank where uncertain and we will discuss the titles granted by me one by one to see who is willing to take them under their wing to sign their confirmation (but this after everyone else made their comments on them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrian Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 "4. If all miscellaneous tags come from Mur or the Council, that doesn't allow for one of the primary goals of the titles, which is a self emergent hierarchy in the realm." if you shoehorn everything into non mur granting,/confirming, then its not self emergent, its forced, built, created, whatever, but clearly not self emergent if its a creation of someones hand, not something that builds itself, which defeats the purpose. Sy Chewett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorak Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I've edited the doc with the rest of your comments and I also realized along the way why you were repeating things I had already fixed, when I edited the first post to replace the Google Drive link with a TitanPad link, I replaced the text but not the reference... I've fixed that now, sorry. The doc you should be looking at is https://titanpad.com/A2GfPvEanN. Judge is a group tag, but an important one. Should it be kept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 28, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) { "title": "Freelance Artist", "recipient": "gonzalocsdf", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", // Murry as he would have approved and relates to other "confirming authority": "Mya" //proposed it } }, { "title": "Sky Scouter", // remove as group tag? - Yes, minor tag and a number have it. Can be added later "recipient": "AmberRune", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null } } -- Keep judge as its an important one ----- Ping me when you need to convert the JSON and remove the comments, I can help with that if you dont know how to Intrigue Edited August 28, 2014 by Chewett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorak Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Thanks, Chewett. Everyone else, please take a look at the other TitanPad at https://titanpad.com/OR5EOoBWdW so we can add the players we have missed and start to figure out who the granting and confirming authorities are for those players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 "title": "Bug Catcher", ---it was Bugs Researcher (or similar). "title": "Abettor", "recipient": "No one", "authorities": { "granting authority": "Muratus del Mur", "confirming authority": null // Who does he abet? He helps me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted August 28, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 This is where question as to what "confirming" means, is this someone else who has the power to give/approve the role? or someone involved or?This is important in many of the cases, such as dst's above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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