The Labyrinth

[Chewett]

Have you even read the entire topic before assuming I just want to be a Labyrinth citizen "just because"? :( Also, I didn't start this topic begging for support. I posted an ideology and am going to follow it and become one with the Labyrinth whether the entire realm likes it or not.

 

Its a land that calls to me in every possible way, and makes me happy. No Man's Land is not so, otherwise I have no reason to start all this would I?

 

I am unclear, Hence why I posted some questions and such. Perhaps you can clarify?

 

As for "reading the posts" Yes I have, and you should know since you replied to a number of my questions regarding what I see the land as. You even commented I gave you something to think about so im not sure why you would make that comment. :)

[DARK DEMON]

 

I am unclear, Hence why I posted some questions and such. Perhaps you can clarify?

 

As for "reading the posts" Yes I have, and you should know since you replied to a number of my questions regarding what I see the land as. You even commented I gave you something to think about so im not sure why you would make that comment. :)

 

The answer is everywhere in the topic, hence I was annoyed. But I apologize, and will try to clarify the best I can:

 

No Man's Land really does not make DD feel free. Quite the opposite since its a "No homeland" label on him that prevents him from being part of all lands in a way. He constantly has a feeling that he does belong somewhere. On the other hand, becoming part of the Labyrinth will allow him to "see through the darkness into the infinite doors" as much as he desires. And at the same time, the "strength of the pull to a land" as you can call it, will depend on him and him alone, not as an expectation or requirement which would be present if he had joined a land. In other words, joining the Labyrinth will allow him to be the sole controller of how much he bonds with each of the lands, and help to maintain a balance, which in turn will help "find himself" :).

Edited October 3, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Nimrodel]

Warning: mild spam: Forum wars will never get old. :P

 

I've always seen the laby as one of the challenges a newbie faces other than the broken gazebo and stuff. One of the tests of perseverance and patience. :P

[Burns]

Pulled some posts out of here into a split

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15744-the-right-way-to-rp/

 

Forum wars do never get old, but play nice and stick to the topic.

[Ackshan Bemunah]

I don't have to be a painter to like or to know good art. I don't have to be a cook to enjoy a good meal. I don't have to RP to know when crappy RP when I see it.

False, false, and false. You will never know the difference between two things above your own threshold. If the potential is already carved, that's one thing, but then you'd know how to do better, and would thus in principle be better even if you don't act on it. (This standard applies when judging others, not oneself. With oneself, it is proper to judge by seen results.)

And no, dd is you. Like it or not. MD is not a real RPG. MD makes you become one with your character. Or the other way around.

True, true, true, and true or true.

To be on topic: I'm myself conflicted whether a labyrinth citizen would indicate someone who continually fails to get out, or someone who succeeds and just enjoys showing it off / guiding others.

Or both? Edited October 3, 2014 by Ackshan Bemunah

[DARK DEMON]

Guiding and sharing information? Yes. Showing off? Not at all.

 

Someone who continually fails to get out... hmm, in what sense do you mean this, Ack? I believe it is essential really for a Labyrinth citizen to be strong/determined enough to not get lost or trapped in it in the wrong sense, but rather conquer it, manipulate the "getting lost" situation, and use it to unlock his potential.

[Jubaris]

On the other hand, becoming part of the Labyrinth will allow him to "see through the darkness into the infinite doors" as much as he desires. ... In other words, joining the Labyrinth will allow him to be the sole controller of how much he bonds with each of the lands, and help to maintain a balance, which in turn will help "find himself"

 

 

Like Chewett, when I analyse your words, I don't see why you wouldn't find all that in No Man's Land.

It seems you are only searching for a place which will not be 'tainted' by the identity of others, so you can make your own glow. (kind of Marind Bell-ish hehe, but this is not an invite/propaganda :D)*

 

I really don't see a connection between your character and Labyrinth specifically, I think you are looking for an isolated land in general. Don't find this discouraging, if you are sure, go for it, good test for your 'dedication'.

 

Btw, in regards to crafting a private land, consult your friend Dst for mentorship :P

Between provocations, she might teach you a few things, just never stop poking her :))

 

 

*that particular aspect. Shielding into yourself requires consistency, you're currently No Man's Land in my eyes

Edited October 3, 2014 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Rophs]

If you want a private land then you may want to claim whatever is to the West

:D

[DARK DEMON]

 

Like Chewett, when I analyse your words, I don't see why you wouldn't find all that in No Man's Land.

It seems you are only searching for a place which will not be 'tainted' by the identity of others, so you can make your own glow. (kind of Marind Bell-ish hehe, but this is not an invite/propaganda :D)*

 

I really don't see a connection between your character and Labyrinth specifically, I think you are looking for an isolated land in general. Don't find this discouraging, if you are sure, go for it, good test for your 'dedication'.

 

Btw, in regards to crafting a private land, consult your friend Dst for mentorship :P

Between provocations, she might teach you a few things, just never stop poking her :))

 

 

*that particular aspect. Shielding into yourself requires consistency, you're currently No Man's Land in my eyes

 

I do not find it discouraging at all but I want to point out a few things

 

How is "Sunfire" specifically related to "Loreroot", the forest? How is "Peace" specifically related to "Necrovion", the land of shades? Connections aren't pre-formed :)

 

I think the problem here, since you and Chewy have the same issue, is that I can't put it into proper words. Just try to understand this (and please don't take offense because I'm trying my best to just be honest and don't mean any offense).... DD has felt a definite bond and calling from the Labyrinth, and the people who actually spend time with him have noticed the hints he's revealed about "walking alone" and what not. 

I already stated earlier my reasons for DD choosing specifically the Labyrinth. To me it honestly sounds as if you're saying things like "Hey lets just ignore whatever bond Rhaegar (just an example!) has with Marind Bell and say that he should try and fulfill his role as a No Man's Land person." The community, including you, has actually suggested 5 lands to DD in total now really... first it was East, then GG, then a suggestion to go back to Loreroot, then MB and now NML.... why don't we all make each other's land-choosing decisions eh? ;)

 

Deciding a land is a -huge- decision for DD and he has to be sure that it is exactly where he belongs. He will trust someone who suggests a different land less than someone who rather helps him along his goal (because he knows better about himself than the observers who have not seen the entire him).

 

 

As for "crafting a private land"... no, I do not want to do that. As much as I'd love to poke dst, the Labyrinth is a land different from all others and it is downright impossible for it to have any ruler because someone else will see through the darkness different from another. The most it may have is a "master" or a "conqueror" who manages to do so after many years, but that does not mean that he's the ruler of any sort of people. There are no "land laws" for people to obey; no government, no such thing.

[Syrian]

people become related to a land by having an emotional (player) leaning to a land, and acting on it and putting effort into it to develop it, some elements have to be preformed for the idea to grow. 

 

if you cant put it into proper words, then you are not ready to be putting it into words, and you should reflect about it more and explain when you have the words to do so. not only will this help others understand your view, but it can also help you as well. how can you expect people to understand when you cant give a proper explanation?

 

deciding a land should be a big deal for everyone, but if he has to be sure, why was he so sure about LR? was he wrong?(this isnt accusatory, im just curious)

 

the labyrinth for me is..not entirely about isolation, but about self reflection, if you are alone in there you have the time to concentrate on yourself, and your own being and thought process, and to learn about your own mannerisms and reasons for doing things. i.e. why you are so drawn to the labyrinth and how to put this into explainable words. 

 

Sy

[DARK DEMON]

people become related to a land by having an emotional (player) leaning to a land, and acting on it and putting effort into it to develop it, some elements have to be preformed for the idea to grow. 

 

if you cant put it into proper words, then you are not ready to be putting it into words, and you should reflect about it more and explain when you have the words to do so. not only will this help others understand your view, but it can also help you as well. how can you expect people to understand when you cant give a proper explanation?

 

deciding a land should be a big deal for everyone, but if he has to be sure, why was he so sure about LR? was he wrong?(this isnt accusatory, im just curious)

 

the labyrinth for me is..not entirely about isolation, but about self reflection, if you are alone in there you have the time to concentrate on yourself, and your own being and thought process, and to learn about your own mannerisms and reasons for doing things. i.e. why you are so drawn to the labyrinth and how to put this into explainable words. 

 

Sy

 

Self-reflection... that's exactly what "finding yourself" means. The problem is not with DD; he knows what he believes and knows the correct meaning of what he wants to say/explain, the problem is that the receiving end (you, the community) is interpreting it differently, and there is no way to prevent this from happening rather than repeatedly saying "Please try to understand" -_-

 

I honestly don't expect/want people to truly understand DD's reasoning; he is mysterious and prefers isolation in this sense, not the physical sense. There is no proper explanation because there doesn't have to be one. Something a million times better, if you're so keen on knowing, would be to play the game and find him and talk to him and maybe then everyone will understand better, rather than attempting to know the_entire_story by me, the player, in text on the forum.

 

Regarding LR... well that is an awfully long story and has no place in this topic. Again, find DD in game if you want to know more about it.

 

 

EDIT: "you" here does not refer specifically to Syrian but the whole community as a general term

Edited October 4, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Jubaris]

There seem to be a lot of loopholes in your words, but I'll try to be brief.

 

I never assigned a land to you, in my last post I said you are NML in my eyes which didn't mean it is your homeland, it manifests your lack of certainty in choosing where to 'live', you don't have a home.

Your explanations have to be good because the Labyrinth does not have an administration and you need community's support to get its citizenship.

 

Mur pos repped your main post, which is probably the first time I see him repping a post, so that's a plus, but there is no connection with your character.

Since talking, as you say, is not your good side, I recommend talking less and doing more (those plans of yours). You love to track for examples, why don't you track a positive one? Zleiphneir? Consistency and without much noise on the forum he managed to do something 'more impossible' than what you are trying to do now.

 

Also, I wasn't talking about ruling the Labyrinth.

[Chewett]

 

I think the problem here, since you and Chewy have the same issue, is that I can't put it into proper words. Just try to understand this (and please don't take offense because I'm trying my best to just be honest and don't mean any offense).... DD has felt a definite bond and calling from the Labyrinth, and the people who actually spend time with him have noticed the hints he's revealed about "walking alone" and what not. 

I already stated earlier my reasons for DD choosing specifically the Labyrinth. To me it honestly sounds as if you're saying things like "Hey lets just ignore whatever bond Rhaegar (just an example!) has with Marind Bell and say that he should try and fulfill his role as a No Man's Land person." The community, including you, has actually suggested 5 lands to DD in total now really... first it was East, then GG, then a suggestion to go back to Loreroot, then MB and now NML.... why don't we all make each other's land-choosing decisions eh? ;)

 

Deciding a land is a -huge- decision for DD and he has to be sure that it is exactly where he belongs. He will trust someone who suggests a different land less than someone who rather helps him along his goal (because he knows better about himself than the observers who have not seen the entire him).

 

 

As for "crafting a private land"... no, I do not want to do that. As much as I'd love to poke dst, the Labyrinth is a land different from all others and it is downright impossible for it to have any ruler because someone else will see through the darkness different from another. The most it may have is a "master" or a "conqueror" who manages to do so after many years, but that does not mean that he's the ruler of any sort of people. There are no "land laws" for people to obey; no government, no such thing.

 

>>DD has felt a definite bond and calling from the Labyrinth

You have a bond, thats cool and we can believe you there. However just stating you have a bond is not something that will be acted upon. So you need to explain your reasoning

 

>>Deciding a land is a -huge- decision for DD

As for choosing a land is a huge decision, You did indeed spend a decent chunk of time considering the offer to be amoung friends and join MB and then accepted. But when you went to shem to ask permission to leave (on my instruction before I let you accept the invite) and they mentioned you could join LR you immediately changed your mind. Thats not really you taking a big decision, it was quite insulting really DD. So if you are going to say that deciding a land is a huge decision, what has changed, and why not LR/MB anymore?

 

>>As for "crafting a private land"... no, I do not want to do that. As much as I'd love to poke dst, 

 

You lose more and more respect each passing day DD. I will say it again, grow up.

 

people become related to a land by having an emotional (player) leaning to a land, and acting on it and putting effort into it to develop it, some elements have to be preformed for the idea to grow. 

 

if you cant put it into proper words, then you are not ready to be putting it into words, and you should reflect about it more and explain when you have the words to do so. not only will this help others understand your view, but it can also help you as well. how can you expect people to understand when you cant give a proper explanation?

 

deciding a land should be a big deal for everyone, but if he has to be sure, why was he so sure about LR? was he wrong?(this isnt accusatory, im just curious)

 

the labyrinth for me is..not entirely about isolation, but about self reflection, if you are alone in there you have the time to concentrate on yourself, and your own being and thought process, and to learn about your own mannerisms and reasons for doing things. i.e. why you are so drawn to the labyrinth and how to put this into explainable words. 

 

Sy

 

Syrian has very good points here. And I add a further statement, If you cannot put it into words, How can you expect to put it into actions? Why was the previous lands wrong when you were so sure?

 

 

Self-reflection... that's exactly what "finding yourself" means. The problem is not with DD; he knows what he believes and knows the correct meaning of what he wants to say/explain, the problem is that the receiving end (you, the community) is interpreting it differently, and there is no way to prevent this from happening rather than repeatedly saying "Please try to understand" -_-

 

I honestly don't expect/want people to truly understand DD's reasoning; he is mysterious and prefers isolation in this sense, not the physical sense. There is no proper explanation because there doesn't have to be one. Something a million times better, if you're so keen on knowing, would be to play the game and find him and talk to him and maybe then everyone will understand better, rather than attempting to know the_entire_story by me, the player, in text on the forum.

 

Regarding LR... well that is an awfully long story and has no place in this topic. Again, find DD in game if you want to know more about it.

 

 

EDIT: "you" here does not refer specifically to Syrian but the whole community as a general term

 

If you stand there blaming the community for not understanding your words, you wont progress. Clearly there is something wrong with what and how you are saying it that the community cannot understand.

 

And no, You cant tell others to go and talk to you ingame when you open a discussion on the forum lol.

 

Regarding LR: Surely your past, and you swearing you had a bond with previous lands slightly lowers the value of this current statement unless you explain it in some way?

 

There seem to be a lot of loopholes in your words, but I'll try to be brief.

 

I never assigned a land to you, in my last post I said you are NML in my eyes which didn't mean it is your homeland, it manifests your lack of certainty in choosing where to 'live', you don't have a home.

Your explanations have to be good because the Labyrinth does not have an administration and you need community's support to get its citizenship.

 

Mur pos repped your main post, which is probably the first time I see him repping a post, so that's a plus, but there is no connection with your character.

Since talking, as you say, is not your good side, I recommend talking less and doing more (those plans of yours). You love to track for examples, why don't you track a positive one? Zleiphneir? Consistency and without much noise on the forum he managed to do something 'more impossible' than what you are trying to do now.

 

Also, I wasn't talking about ruling the Labyrinth.

 

>>Your explanations have to be good because the Labyrinth does not have an administration and you need community's support to get its citizenship.

 

This.

 

----

 

He does rep people, he just reads topics later than most so you dont see it: http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/user/2-muratus-del-mur/?tab=reputation&app_tab=forums&type=given

[DARK DEMON]

DD never disliked Loreroot nor will he ever; nothing wrong with the land at all. People are what's wrong. At that time, DD would have done anything to be part of the land, but people spoiled it all.

 

Labyrinth has no people. Paradise. Any explanation DD gives cannot satisfy people who don't care about him because DD does not want to be with such people (in a home-sharing sense) and does not want to please such people, whereas all of you want to do just that and cannot accept anyone different from you.

Edited October 4, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

Labyrinth has no people. Paradise. Any explanation DD gives cannot satisfy people who don't care about him because DD does not want to be with such people (in a home-sharing sense) and does not want to please such people, whereas all of you want to do just that and cannot accept anyone different from you.

 

I would consider myself someone who cares about DD yet I dont understand and this is why I was asking :)

[phantasm]

 

People "Just wanting east citizenship" is the reason why many people are denied into east lands FYI. I dont think thats a good reason to be honest. Especially if you are saying that you are not basing your entire character (Are you basing any of it?) on joining the lab.

 

I wish you luck, but wont be supporting you. You only seem to want to claim to be truly free by becoming a Lab citizen, when you are free as a no mans land one too.

Agreed with chewy here.  Some of the first non-ally citizens of the East really put alot of effort into becoming citizens.  MONTHS of spending time with Ally people of the east, and spending time in the east in general.  I think people want everything now without putting in alot of worth while time.  Just like Items these days.  Before they didn't just poof into existence, it took a LONG time questing before proving to RPCs back then that you wanted it.  It also took a WP, something not common in those days. 

 

Forums are never good places to try and prove a point.  Besides forum bashers and whiners, you have the detachment from the realm itself in forums.  The only way to prove yourself is through word and deed in game.  As chewy also said, to be a part of a land with nobody ever around is a hard course to have.   Being in the East as much as I am has detached me greatly from the 'younger generation' of MD.  To commit to a land that is hard to navigate, or hard to travel is a very lonely life.

[DARK DEMON]

I would consider myself someone who cares about DD yet I dont understand and this is why I was asking :)

 

 

Which part specifically do you not understand? I've explained almost every part of my reasoning now

[Eara Meraia]

to DD>

 

And I'm so glad you understand, you just said exactly what I wanted in the best possible words :D

 

 

DD, I don't think you got me correct. Because in fact I do NOT understand you. And I think 3 pages of discussion here mean that many people in MD do not understand you.

 

You see, I pointed out loyalty and continuity in my post because I was hoping that you will see the discrepancy between actions of your character and these 2 words. When we started playing MD your dream was it to be a leader of a certain Loreroot alliance, then when I started the story with CotE you suddenly wanted a Reviver role, then it was Death itself, then you left Loreroot saying that people don't understand you. And since people in all lands seem to misunderstand you, you look for a place without people. DD, I tried with all my strength, but I fail to see loyalty in continuity in your words, ideas and actions. You never fight, you just start and leave. Even when you made a quest and I did a few remarks on it, you wrote me - this is my last quest...just because I wrote a few remarks, pointing out mistakes. Continuity? Stability? Really?

 

In my eyes, you seem to be a person who absolutelly lost orientation. Who actually wants to be a part of MD, who wants to find his place, his role, but except of the wish of being unique, doesn't really know what to he wants. Because otherwise, you would fight for one idea of yours and not jump from one idea to another, as soon as people start critisizing it.

 

That is why you bump into lack of trust from the side of community, because the past actions show that your moods change too often. And with every new change of direction the credit of trust gets smaller. As I said before, I really don't think it is impossible for you to become a labyrinth citizen, but you should really sit down and think CAREFULLY of what DD wants and who is he and where does he go. Your current description of your role in Labyrinth seems very unsuitable for your character from my perspective as an outsider. You would probably say that me and others just don't understand your true being, but DD, this is what we see in you and maybe you should listen a little bit. Maybe just ask people around what do they think would be good solution or land or role for you, try to listen to your heart too, forget about the uniqueness idea and just think of the role you would be happy with, even if it is something small. Because all big things start small too :)

 

To community> maybe we better help DD out with looking for his role instead of throwing stones at him? This is of course is only then possible when he wants to listen, but will you be willing to stretch your hand and actually help if he asks for it? Saying no and critisizing is easy, but he seems to be sincerely searching and just killing his next idea without showing him an alternative is not the way out in my oppinion. Unless you want to have another idea to critisize and another portion of frustration and disappointment to share.

[Chewett]

Eara is saying exactly what I have been trying to express by asking DD to think about things and explain himself more :)

[DARK DEMON]

I'll be as brief as possible, and leave some soon-to-come happenings in the realm speak for themselves.

 

Bad criticism each_and_every_time played a huge part in making DD very indecisive. In the past DD was awfully easily swayed by people and he used to be like "Hey this seems good, I'll do this!" and the next moment "Oh no, that is way better, I'll go for that!" and so on. Of course, this led him to learn the hard way that this is certainly not how things work. So he decided, after so many months now, that he would completely eliminate all outside influence and opinion as far as decisions related to him were concerned. He is really not begging for help, support, trust, etc. He would certainly welcome opinions and love to talk and discuss, but when it came to actually deciding -what- to do and how to do it, that is based on only DD alone.

 

In other words, he completely lost hope in the community to ever guide him properly and help him along achieving a set goal, realizing that all people ever caused was constant switching. So now he'll force the community to accept him the way HE wants, hated or loved, with NO influence from outside to change his mind all the time.

 

You people don't give me time. You just say "hey what the hell man you haven't done anything related to Labyrinth, how do you expect to get citizenship!?", not realizing that the purpose of this topic was to initiate just that. Just give me a break for goodness' sake and give me time to explain things slowly (through actions, not necessarily words) rather than forcing me to blurt out everything right here right now as you ask me, which is often wrong as both you and I have noticed.

 

I'll stop here and repeat: I will leave some soon-to-come happenings in the realm speak for themselves.

 

 

Edit: clarified a few things

Edited October 4, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[DARK DEMON]

And with this, I request the topic to be closed as its purpose is complete.

 

DD's decision has been made and there is no one who can possibly convince him otherwise. If anyone really cares for him, then help him with it rather than swaying him away or discouraging him or trying to make him change directions again, just like always in the past.

Edited October 4, 2014 by DARK DEMON