Ann. 3314 WP to credits

[Miq]

Ave,

 

You get 40 credits for head-contest (yeah i know it's not happening atm). 15 credits for finding or faking a new player. Yet for one WP just 8 credits?

 

So considering the value of WP and that there is only one i'd suggest 80 or maybe 160 credits.

 

Miq

 

 

 

 

Edit: formatting.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Miq

[dst]

80 or 160 is a bit too much in my opinion. Consider the fact that you get a pretty decent amount of WPs just by logging in each day. But yeah, maybe the value should be changed a bit.

[DARK DEMON]

IMO it should be at least 50.

 

Last I recall, Mur offered choices between rewards of a GG drach and a WP.

 

GG drach is about 10 gold, and 1 gold = 5 credits, so a WP amounts to 50 that way.

Edited January 27, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[Change]

8 is far too little. I'd price them around 30-60 each, depending on how common they become in the future. 30 seems more likely to be a fair price, but only if the amount of wishpoints being given out increases. Click the spoiler tag if you want a further, somewhat lengthy, and possibly spoilery (or not) explanation, but it basically boils down to what DD said--the exchange rate of 1 gold for 5 credits should be taken into account.
 
[spoiler]For context, 1 gold is often traded for 5 credits (3 silver per credit), which means $5 USD for a direct trade. So 8 credits would set a wishpoint to be worth around 1 gold and 9 silver, or 1.6 gold.
 
Now obviously, there are several problems with the above calculations (it assumes that the rate at which credits are traded for gold is similar to the rate at which gold is traded for shop creatures that cost a certain amount of credits, among other things.) but it provides a really rough guide.
 
Also, the value of wishpoints might decrease drastically in the coming year if wishpoints are made even more readily available. However, that shouldn't matter too much as long as people don't have nearly enough wishpoints to buy out the entire wishpoint shop.
 
However, currently, in the 'Tag! You're it!' quest there are some valuable prizes. Third place receives 5 gold while first place can choose a wishpoint. The 5 gold could possibly be traded for 25 credits, while the wishpoint could only be traded for 8 according to the announcement. In sasha's 'Remembrance' quest, the prizes include one among 100 credits, a rustgold drachorn, or a wishpoint. The 100 credits, if awarded to 1 person, would then only be gotten by a free player by voting, or by spending over 12 wishpoints.
 
Personally, if I had had the choice to buy a wishpoint at 100 credits each, I would have jumped at the chance. Yes, I hope that you will never be able to buy wishpoints. I dislike that. And perhaps a free player might happily exchange a wishpoint for 8 credits. But if a player who buys credits would value wishpoints at 100 credits per wishpoint and a 'free player' values their wishpoints at 8 credits each--there's a discrepancy here.
 
For active day WPs, that only adds to around 1 credit a month if you converted those wishpoints to credits. Under my suggested rates, it'd be 5-10 credits a month. There'd still be a motivation to get a $5 subscription because then you'd be getting 10 a month and so on. The role items that were added/will be added to the shop will also cause people to blow through credits more, especially since they tap into the roleplaying market, which hasn't been catered to at all in the shop before.
[/spoiler]

Edited January 27, 2015 by Change

[dst]

IMO it should be at least 50.

 

Last I recall, Mur offered choices between rewards of a GG drach and a WP.

 

GG drach is about 10 gold, and 1 gold = 5 credits, so a WP amounts to 50 that way.

 

And then there will  be people like you who will REFUSE to make public the entries of their quests showing NO transparency when the rewards will be WPs. Yes, I am talking about abuses here if the amount is high enough.

[Chewett]

Ave,

 

You get 40 credits for head-contest (yeah i know it's not happening atm). 15 credits for finding or faking a new player. Yet for one WP just 8 credits?

 

So considering the value of WP and that there is only one i'd suggest 80 or maybe 160 credits.

 

Miq

 

 

 

 

Edit: formatting.

 

MD only exists by credit payments. 20 credits seems like a good compromise.

 

Anyone comparing the cost of any single WP wish is foolish since there are a lot of wishpoints that are only worth 1$ See locate, movelock, etc...

[DARK DEMON]

 

And then there will  be people like you who will REFUSE to make public the entries of their quests showing NO transparency when the rewards will be WPs. Yes, I am talking about abuses here if the amount is high enough.

 

I will of course make entries public if:

1) The one sponsoring it wants this to ensure that his reward is being given fairly (last time, you were more into this than the sponsorer himself)

2) The quest isn't research/spoiler-related

 

I don't see how this is linked to my post or this topic though. A WP is no way worth 1 gold 9 silver (which is 8 credits), that's just horribly undervaluing. I was referring to Mur's own build a drachorn in RL quest in which he valued a GG drach the same as a WP.

[Chewett]

 

I don't see how this is linked to my post or this topic though. A WP is no way worth 1 gold 9 silver (which is 8 credits), that's just horribly undervaluing. I was referring to Mur's own build a drachorn in RL quest in which he valued a GG drach the same as a WP.

 

A)  gold to credits values is your opinon, dont make others take your prices.

 

B) You are saying that a GG drach, is worth the same as a movelock spell? No it isnt, you are ignoring that all wishs are worth different. Same with the credits value so they are not all going to be worth the same.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Chewett

[DARK DEMON]

 

MD only exists by credit payments.

 

At what cost? WP-undervaluing? Aren't WP's the only thing that we EARN and cannot buy?

WP's wouldn't be directly undervalued, but what I'm trying to say is that in your opinion, shop should give equal advantage to a person who spends $8, and a person who spends a lot of time and energy to earn a WP?

 

I am aware that there are many wishes worth only $1, but this is further devaluing it as well.

 

 

-edited to clarify grammar-
 

 

A)  gold to credits values is your opinon, dont make others take your prices.

 

It is not my opinion, its the community's. Has anyone in MD in the past few years made any major trade with a trade value other than 1 gold to 5 credits? At least not publicly in the market for all I know.

Edited January 27, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

 

At what cost? WP-undervaluing? Aren't WP's the only thing that we EARN and cannot buy?

WP's wouldn't be directly undervalued, but what I'm trying to say is that in your opinion, shop should give equal advantage to a person who spends $8, and a person who spends a lot of time and energy to earn a WP?

 

I am aware that there are many wishes worth only $1, but this is further devaluing it as well.

 

 

-edited to clarify grammar-
 

 

So you would remove all wishes not worth loads and loads? You miss the point of the WP shop. Just like the credit shop there are wishes with varying worth.

 

Some wishes being worth less than others are fair, Most people get a LOT of wishpoints from getting them free, Have you got more WP's by earning them than automated ones? Also, There is a lot wishpoints that I would only value at $0 and these are in the majority.

[DARK DEMON]

 

So you would remove all wishes not worth loads and loads? You miss the point of the WP shop. Just like the credit shop there are wishes with varying worth.

 

Some wishes being worth less than others are fair, Most people get a LOT of wishpoints from getting them free, Have you got more WP's by earning them than automated ones? Also, There is a lot wishpoints that I would only value at $0 and these are in the majority.

 

You are not understanding my point.

 

Automated or not, any -spell- or wishshop item is either earned or is role related (or also gifted but that is very rare). There is no way to "buy" these wishshop items or spells. Choices within the wishshop indeed vary from worthless to useful spells, BUT, at to access any of those you have only one way: earn a wishpoint.

 

For the shop, everything is bought with credits, and now wishpoints too. Items that some people would have to buy with WP's, will now be very common, much more common than spells. My point is: a WP-costing item can be worthless, it doesn't matter, as long as the only way to get it is a wishpoint (or earning it, not paying for it). Thus, it will always remain 'special' in some way.

 

Linking the only un-buyable thing in the game with credits would be a good decision if it actually allowed earning/hard work to be equal in value to paying, but it isn't equal. Who here values 8 credits (or even 20 credits) more than a WP?

Edited January 27, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[Miq]

Hi,

 

I would probably never use that wish in the wish-shop even if it was 200 credits. Simply because i have no other means to get anything offered in the wish-shop and i have had very hard time to gain any WP's (i ever had only one non automatic). 

 

Why i started this was that it was just sad to see 1=8 ratio there. Poor noob who maybe does not know better i wastes his WP.

 

Please treat this what it is. My opinion

 

Miq

Edited January 27, 2015 by Miq

[dst]

Linking the only un-buyable thing in the game with credits would be a good decision if it actually allowed earning/hard work to be equal in value to paying, but it isn't equal. Who here values 8 credits (or even 20 credits) more than a WP?

 As i said 8 is too little. 20 is decent-ish

 

Who will value the credits more than a WP? Me. I have tons of WPs but currently no credits. So if the MD Shop would offer something that I REALLY REALLY want, I will have no issue buying the credits with a WP.

 

I believe others that don't buy credits (no matter the reasons) will also g for this option. For a player that has no other option to get credits other than in game trading and free credits, this can be an additional way.

 

Again, it's a matter of having the choice.

And again, 8 is too little 50-60 is too much.

 

IMO of course.

[Chewett]

If you are going to give every account (not player, account) 250$ free then we might as well close the game now :)

You are not understanding my point.
 
Automated or not, any -spell- or wishshop item is either earned or is role related (or also gifted but that is very rare). There is no way to "buy" these wishshop items or spells. Choices within the wishshop indeed vary from worthless to useful spells, BUT, at to access any of those you have only one way: earn a wishpoint.

Nor are you listening to mine, Waiting 70 days is not earning.

[Guest]

Comment removed

Edited September 5, 2016 by Guest

[No one]

 

MD only exists by credit payments. 20 credits seems like a good compromise.

 

Anyone comparing the cost of any single WP wish is foolish since there are a lot of wishpoints that are only worth 1$ See locate, movelock, etc...

I agree with Chew on this and its following statements and I agree with other points stating that WPs are not to be compared in value based on GC/SC.

 

Before I continue, I have to state that WPs can be bought far cheaper and that is called an abuse or fraud (specially specified for DD as he seems to lack the understanding of this), it has been done before and will be done in the future too.

 

-------------

As some suggested and some other agreed:

 - the WPs are undervalued (8GCs)

 - you get lots of WPs for simply logging into MD (see the age related WPs)

 - the server runs on credits

 

So, ok, give the WP more credits. Get the wish deeper into the wish-shop. So what ?

If the server lacks just 1 credit, the game will be down no matter how many WPs you have or spent.

If you want credits and like MD then buy them or use the free credit page (you'll see that you can get faster to 8$ then earning a new WP).

 

Ofc the WPs are undervalued. WPs are only used in MD. Credits are used in RL.

 

Also, as there are lots of references lately for other games ... when did you see the game's market reflect real values of items ? C'mon. The game must survive somehow, not your welfare.

 

I say: don't change the value & get the WP deeper in wish shop.

[Change]

"In this way, wishpoints could be used to acquire such items and this will lower the buying-vs-nonbuying member discrimination." - Mur.
 
This. Also, I forgot this statement:
 
"Now you can turn one wishpoint for 8 credits in the wish shop, this value is not final and there is only one such wish on stock"
 

I was calculating things based on the idea that you'd be able to convert unlimited wishpoints to credits. But you can only convert 1 wishpoint into 8 credits right now. That's it. So if 1 wishpoint gives 60 credits, you'd just get a 60 credit, or $60 boost in the game when you get your first wishpoint. 60 credits will give you an avatar, some nice extra features, 40-60 roleplay items, and less if you really want specific ones, and so on.

 

Once you've spent your 60 credits, you'll need to get your missing items from other players--who also have 60 credits likely. Thus you'd pay them in gold/silver or such for them to shuffle the roleplay items to get what you want, thus further reducing the available credits that people have.

 

60 credits still might be too high of a boost, depending on how many new players (or alts. alt abuse must be considered with this.) come into the game. But $60 is not nearly $250 free. Honestly, maybe it's just me, but I don't think there's a majority of players who will just be happy with 60 credits. That gives them a taste, but people will always want more. It's rare the person who doesn't want more of something--and if they don't, then perhaps you aren't selling the right things.

 

The roleplay items section was long needed, given the amount of roleplayers in MD and the lack of roleplay items in the shop. Now, more people will spend credits in large amounts, and this will make the 60 credits that used to seem like a lot, feel like a lot less. I've spent that much shuffling the avatar shop alone.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Change

[No one]

It's rare the person who doesn't want more of something--and if they don't, then perhaps you aren't selling the right things.

It is not that I don't want more money or smth, but I also consider other things. I always consider my greed's impact on MD.

And for MD's sake I would want that WP .

[Chewett]

A compromise to the concern about giving away free credits with wps you don't earn would be to bury this wish deep into the shop so that you would have to spend a certain number of wps to reach it.

Burying it is better as it means alts wont be able to easily obtain it. I think I will suggest this to Mur. I dont know where it is atm.

It is not that I don't want more money or smth, but I also consider other things. I always consider my greed's impact on MD.
And for MD's sake I would want that WP .

No one gets it :)

[Muratus del Mur]

i think we are taking here about the TOTAL amount of credits obtainable via wishes. 8 was a secure value, not at all a final one.. my initial intention was to make it 12, then add two more wishes of same value but deeper.

Considering that i also intend to make credits available via other ways (like random chance ar sacrificing old crits) and that credits still need to remain something 'wanted', I think my initial intention is much closer to what you discuss here.

 

I will be waiting a bit more to see more opinions about this, then i will change this value.

 

my advice is that you should not use wp for this yet, the value will increase, not drop.

 

ps. comparing 1 single wp value based on just one or the other wish, is as saying that a drach costs 1$

[Sasha Lilias]

 

MD only exists by credit payments. 20 credits seems like a good compromise.

 

Anyone comparing the cost of any single WP wish is foolish since there are a lot of wishpoints that are only worth 1$ See locate, movelock, etc...

 

Was literally about to say this myself.

 

It is not that I don't want more money or smth, but I also consider other things. I always consider my greed's impact on MD.

And for MD's sake I would want that WP .

 

And I love to see this sort of comment.

 

As Chewett has pointed out, MD's server costs are helped through the costs of items bought within the MD shop. Giving away an in game reward for high amounts of credits would create a massive financial loss in the long term.

In my opinion I would have said $15-$20 was very generous. For one person, that may not seem a lot but, if you put MD first, it really is.

 

Let's say $20 was the conversion price. Five people convert their wishpoints in one month, that's $100 just "given away" for free. That's more than what any one subscriber pays in a month (just through subscription). Now take into account the amount of people that will be using this wish, especially once a25 has been implemented and new players start coming in, compared to the amount of people subscribed or paying.

 

For every 5 Wishpoints converted you need at least 5 people paying $20 just to break even...that seems a bit ridiculous to me.

 

I personally think that the price should be $10 and two grants of the wish available, each one at different depths of the shop.

 

or

 

If this is essentially for getting the new roleplay items, why not allow people to exchange the wishpoint for random bundles of common items? Say a 20 item bundle for 1 WP. Then MD doesn't lose out on money and people have multiple ways of getting the items still?

 

My own views of this whole announcement though is, I don't like the idea of money being given away for free for in game rewards, when it could be put towards supporting the actual development and sustainability of the game.^{(no accusations or comments meant there, if it seems it.)}

[Burns]

Maybe you could consider having different values, depending on how deep you put those things in the wish shop.

 

To prevent 'free credits', maybe have the first conversion wish available at 3 WPs spent and make that one grant 10 credits, then another one at 5 WPs spent and make that 15, and one at 10 WPs spent that gives 30-40? And the last one with 3-5 charges, maybe, so people like dst who have too many WPs to sensibly use don't sit there with 'worthless' won quests?

 

Just a quick thought i wanted to share before i head out to explore this amazing town again :D

[Rophs]

Change it to allow them to pick five of the RP items directly from the ship with the WP.

[Pipstickz]

From the point of view of a free player (as I used to be): I can gain 0.17 credits per day with voting, meaning it takes 12 days to get up to 2 credits where I can transfer them to shop. To get to the 8 credits that the wish would currently give me, it would take 48 days. I think that is a fair. As a free player, I would trade a wishpoint to save 48 days, after all I'm pretty lazy.

 

Assuming you don't spend any credits and vote every day, you can have 170 credits from free voting by the time you get your fifth active days WP. With that, you could dig to get every shop creature, an avatar, a couple items, some permanent boosters and sink anything you have left into tokens. That's just from voting, and I'd say it's a pretty good deal, but say you miss 300 (30%) of those days for voting, you still have 118 credits. Now, you've got a decent creature collection, a nice avatar, some cool items and stat boosts, and you STILL have five wishpoints that you can use (assuming more wishes are added) to trade for more credits if you REALLY want something else in the shop.

 

From the point of view of a paying player (as I am now): Wouldn't touch that wish with a ten foot pole. It might as well be research points or the VE wish.

[DARK DEMON]

Or give credits based on the WP rating.

 

$5 for each point (meaning automated WP's give $5, 4-point-rated WP's give $20 and 8-point-rated WP's give $40). According to the WP-awarding menu, automated WP's are 1 point.

Edited January 29, 2015 by DARK DEMON