Progress review in stage 12

[Muratus del Mur]

I was wondering ..how was md before stage 12 and how is it now near to the end of this stage. Looking forward to hear your opinions, announcements review, etc. Some major things happend in md during this stage, things that changed it totally...it would be nice to see how you consider them, and what you consider to be biggest progress (some things might be unannounced? idk)

 

Thanks

[Sasha Lilias]

If I were asked to describe before stage 12 in one word? Dying.

 

Stage 12 is the hugely needed change in looks and game play that MD has so desperately needed. We all had grown accustomed to and learned to love the old MD, because of this we seemed to take our time in noticing that less and less new players were joining and that perhaps...perhaps things had grown outdated?

 

MD has always been unique and, I personally feel, it takes pride in the fact.. But with that uniqueness comes a lower fan base - browser mmorpgs are slowly becoming less used and loved due to the more common games like Warhammer, League of Legends, Runescape; games in which everything is already laid out before you (non-unique weapons, armor, generic quests/story lines...). In my mind, most people are more focused on how they can reach level 99 and have the god armor rather than actually getting involved in the community, or the deeper levels of the game they play.

 

But that's what MD is all about!

 

Rather than telling you to go to "x" to obtain "y" and then to go to "z" before being rewarded with something awesome, MD challenges the way you think. When I say "MD" I don't just mean the game itself, I also mean the community...the other players. In fact...the amazing thing about MD is it's the players that make the game what it is, not just the set up of the game itself. We hold huge ceremonies where nearly the whole community gather (without making the screen lag like hell!), we run quests that challenge how we think or look at MD... All this though comes over time and, sadly, not many people have the patience for that sort of thing nowadays.

 

Now though MD is slowly coming back to life! What with the A25 being integrated and a whole new way of playing MD being introduced (RP items specifically) it'll hopefully meet the needs for both old players and new players that haven't yet worked out the "deeper meaning" of MD and it's community.

As you've (kind of) said yourself, it should keep the older players that are "comfortable" with how MD was happy and interested, whilst luring in and capturing the interest of newer players by helping them get deeper into MD quicker!

 

That to me is the biggest change from 11 to 12; the new life and balance that has been breathed into MD. Stage 13 I picture as a seemingly brand new MD that stays true to it's roots yet both old and new faces wander around happily.

 

I look forward to seeing everything when it's all fully implemented! (Though I'll probably still find something to complain about! :P)

 

Keep up the good work guys :)

 

(P.s. Sorry if this doesn't make sense...tis late. Shall probably return to edit this tomorrow! :P )

[DARK DEMON]

Note: The following is just an opinion+overview, not criticism. IMO we should indeed be happy and pleased with the progress being made but not stop here. We still have a lot to do. :)

 

Before Stage 12 we used to talk about how "clumsy" MD is and how most newbies never stay because the filters are too strong, etc, but now I think that's starting to change, which is good.  MD is gaining a lot in many areas that had untapped potential now. I am looking forward to a Stage 13 who's main goal would be to start moving MD in that direction. We really do need new players, and the influx rate is too low. When A25 first started we were told there was a tutorial redesigning... may I know how far this has gone?

 

(edit: I'm not talking about advertising here, I mean making MD more suitable+welcoming+attractive for newbies)

 

 

One thing I'm very happy about is that in this Stage actually we have had the least amount of "leavers" (speaking of vets here). Our bonds have held us strong together for all this time... but I really do worry sometimes that they might start breaking soon if stretched tooo long... I hope not. Its just a scary thought I get sometimes. We need more threads in this long rope. Newbies have always been a source of activity for vets too (I remember in my time old vets used to teach and guide us so much and spend time with us trying to make us feel welcome, but I haven't seen those people teach anybody in a long time because there are no/very few people to teach...)

 

Then there's one thing I always say in these kinds of topics: I still very much dislike the way many things are started but left incomplete, and another big thing is started instead. Creature Totems, Night Mode, New Labyrinth, New Tutorial, etc... it will happen again: these things get abandoned and years later you will forget what they were supposed to be and what to do with them. I strongly suggest that any major uncompleted things be completed before advancing to Stage 13.  (there was a topic Chew made about this earlier with his stage-advance-proposal, but I can't seem to find it now, it had more details).

 

I would like to restate that this is not criticism, because I for one am very happy with A25, Mur returning, new RP items and big changes finally taking place, etc. I just think that making it properly organized and doing it in an order is essential, and that we should set priorities and follow them rather than doing stuff randomly (not talking about bugs or minor fixes here, but major projects). Maybe the community can decide these priorities to know the general opinion of what needs to be focused on.

Edited January 29, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[Nimrodel]

Umm I think stageS 11 and 12 were pretty dull despite there have been major changes, one being you (Mur) totally dissociating from MD and coming back others being Chewett taking a massive burden on his shoulders, there being a council and and then the council getting dissolved. Apart from that, there have been various changes in terms of items, shop, power, introduction of kings, removal of kings and coming back of kings (lol) several alliances being disbanded, etc. I blame the dullness on the reduction of player population mainly.

 

Umm, let me highlight something which people before me have not mentioned. There have been that bunch who haven't abandoned MD no matter how bad/unsatisfactory things were for them. Be it because of a bunch of players, be it real life issues, be it loss of interest, or whatever reasons people have for leaving the game. I think this period was more like a testing period... A period that tested the loyalty of plenty of players.

 

Now while i consider the previous stages to be more like the 'Medieval ages', I expect some kind of 'Industrial revolution' to happen before we step into the next stage, like the A2050 Everyone's talking about recently. Also, I'd like to see major changes not only in the item and questing front of things but also in the Combat aspect. Many of the players do not find combat even remotely interesting anymore, forget about challenging. While MD can never be balanced (i reckon thats how its supposed to be), it always strives to be balanced though (thats how I perceive it). So there should be some way to give direction to combat too? PLease lets not go into the next stage before combat has been fixed.

 

Also, As DD suggested lets not leave plans half finished before progressing to next stage. Else it'd just not be ready.

[No one]

12 ... 12 ... darn this is huge.

 

Many changes, lots of them in lot of important places.

 

As most of the comments above are ... about positive things, then I guess ... I have to add some of the negative ones.

SO:

 

Many sacred things became tainted, many things that seemed impossible now became achievable & attainable.

 

Good things:

 - a process of logging / documenting features is started & agreed

 - new places can be created ... easier

 - old places can be edited, adjusted and improved

 - lots of new items can now be bought for just 1$ (i think, I didn't checked)

 - finally there is something to wastespend your money on : items

 - there is a new shop section ... for the new items

 - and many many bugs (and features) have been fixed

 

Best of all : Mur is working again.

 

 

Bad things:

 - the most sacred thing of all are now lost

    * Labyrinth loyalty can now be acquired ... indeed for a fair price

    * and yea Labyrinth has a king (that's what the announcements say )

 - MD property is proven to no longer be inviolable without personal agreement (yea, I talk about revive/kill items)

 - acts of kindness/level are no longer free (again, I talk about revive/kill items requiring gold)

 - new items have been released are useless (as said : they are RP items)

 - futile expectations - as there is nothing sure about items (see the kill/revive items) new RP items give a slight perspective of getting some use in future

 - items that would have been available for just 1WP are now at 1sc ... sure, the items are no longer UNIQUE but still, "1WP=1sc" ?!?!?

 - spoilers are still classified

 - The Hidden Council does not exist anymore

 

Worst of all: Mur is unstoppable :P . Joking, that is good ... most of the times

[Grido]

I would consider stage 12 as an overhaul - a number of things have been fixed, redesigned, or made more efficient, interface adjustments made to think about the future and make things easier for then. Which is all amazing....for the future. Along with that, there has been a strong focus on RP, which is appreciated and is a big aspect of MD, but as Nim says we shouldn't be leaving other aspects behind. I'm aware that A25 will be helping the quest makers and takers, but aside from Fight Causes combat seems to have been completely forgotten about for a long time now - I don't fight very often at all, I would like a reason to do so, and encourage that side of things.

 

In terms of ending Stage 12, I have in my mind to not end it until we're at a point where we're happy to advertise again, unless there's some other highly definitive point coming up in the future (and have advertising as the start of the stage after). It isn't meant by me as a thing to get to as fast as possible, it should be done right, intro redone as has been raised is going to be done prior to advertising happening again, and possibly finishing A25, along with other half done or pending features. I feel it would be nice for the stage start to be saying "We're happy with the overhaul, we're still going to be working on things, but new players can see this now the paint's dry"

[Chewett]

In terms of ending Stage 12, I have in my mind to not end it until we're at a point where we're happy to advertise again, unless there's some other highly definitive point coming up in the future (and have advertising as the start of the stage after)

 

I see that happening at Stage 15-20 at this rate tbh. Lots has changed but we are still a very far way away from this.

[Rophs]

Stage 13 begins when A25 is fully integrated and usable. (Along with Moo Spell + Lactating Grasans)

[Pipstickz]

 

I see that happening at Stage 15-20 at this rate tbh. Lots has changed but we are still a very far way away from this.

I don't see how you can call them stages, when they are truly beta versions.

 

If MD is to be commercialized in a way to appeal to a broader audience, then in commercial terms, this game is not a full game. I would suggest a new naming structure, but I suppose it is semantics at this point. If you are planning far enough ahead to see Stage 20, then please share with us your vision and lay out your plans, as I believe we are all (or most) stakeholders in this game, and since a commonly understood naming structure is likely out of the question.

 

Personally, I do not see Stage 12 as nearly completed, but I am not the one managing it, so I'll leave it to you, Chew and/or Mur, to explain.

 

Sorry if I sound negative at all, that is not my intention. Just looking for answers, if you see fit to give them.

[Chewett]

I don't see how you can call them stages, when they are truly beta versions.
 
If MD is to be commercialized in a way to appeal to a broader audience, then in commercial terms, this game is not a full game. I would suggest a new naming structure, but I suppose it is semantics at this point. If you are planning far enough ahead to see Stage 20, then please share with us your vision and lay out your plans, as I believe we are all (or most) stakeholders in this game, and since a commonly understood naming structure is likely out of the question.
 
Personally, I do not see Stage 12 as nearly completed, but I am not the one managing it, so I'll leave it to you, Chew and/or Mur, to explain.
 
Sorry if I sound negative at all, that is not my intention. Just looking for answers, if you see fit to give them.

Surely it was a 'working' game already? we had combat, roleplay, quest making abilities?

We are in perpetual beta unless people have forgotten that, it was named to changes as we fully intend to keep adding, changing, modifying. MD changes, in a years time it wont be the same as now. Its changed a lot.

I see each stage as a major iteration of change. And I dont see A25 being fully developed when Mur is the only one working on it (under his own choice) and tells people that he doesnt fix bugs for a while atm.

Im not planning ahead to stage 15-20, im saying that I feel that there are going to be a large number of big changes before MD is at a point where we will comfortably start pumping money into advertising. But what Mur does with his money is entirely his thing, so if he decides to start tomorrow, then its his choice :)

[Pipstickz]

Then perhaps a list of important announcements that took place over stage 12 is needed to properly judge it (but I don't feel like doing it so I don't expect a ton of people to jump at the opportunity). I tried to at least read from the start of stage 12, but lost patience about halfway through. My personal feeling at the moment has mostly been covered by other posts, but I have this: I don't see Mur as an arbitrary person at all, but it seems arbitrary, to myself, to end Stage 12 right now, since I don't know his reasoning. So, I'm confused.

[lashtal]

Ok I took some time to review the announcements published in stage 12 and tried to sum up the most important stuff (at least from the general public point of view).

 

New features:

- Purchasable RP items;

- Kill contract(s?) introduced;

- A25 tools introduced for quests and clickables (or about to be introduced);

- Title-docs escaping MD borders (or about to);

- Creature shield (immunity to fights);

- Pickable items from scenes;

 

Change in features:

- Kill and revive items requiring gold to be used;

- Fighting cool-down time decreased for allied players;

- Max viscosity reduced + NML freed from viscosity;

- Tags evolution (multi-tag now possible);

- Expire date introduced for some items;

 

Cleansing and cosmetics:

- Avatar shop cleaned;

- User interface redesigned;

- Default items artwork introduced;

- HTML5 creature page;

 

Creatures:

- 9th and 10th anniversary aramors introduced;

- Santa creature level 4 introduced;

- Root warrior creature introduced;

 

Politics:

- New kings in MB and GG;

- Labyrinth Kingship introduced;

- MDA land leaders introduced;

- Tribunal crown waiting for a head;

- Lair Keepers came back;

 

Quests and events:

- Build your own drachorn permanent quest;

- 3 Spell doc permanent quests; 

- No more HC or BCH;

 

Admin & organization:

- Hidden Council was restructured a few times, then got disbanded;

- Public Council was introduced, then disbanded;

- Judges introduced;

- Mur is back;

 

New skills:

- Volition;

- Cartography;

 

New spells:

- Petrify spell;

- Send to Trail of Agony (unless it happened before stage 12);

 

New lands:

- Shadow labyrinth (to be disclosed, but I've been there :P);

 

Get involved:

- Legacy (people documenting existing features);

- Project Omega (know nothing about this);

- Sky visibility and sky scouters;

 

Various:

- Night mode ready to kick in (what happened to this?);

- Adventure Log restarted then paused again;

 

... I may have missed something, I hope not too much.

Edited January 30, 2015 by lashtal

[Ary Endleg]

I think project Omega is admin/dev thing, smoother server maintenance and monitoring and such. At least so I understood from that announcement.

 

If you ask me... just add heal button to HTML5 creat page and we are good to go into next stage. Only thing that I'm afraid of (and I think that rest of community is too) is that naming the next stage now could nudge Mur out of his developing madness.

[Kaya]

There is only one thing that needs to be finished before we can advance in my oppinion, and that is the new start. Untill the tutorial is completed it feels like there is a whole lot of things have been started, but nothing really has been finished. Even though it might still take a while I don't feel like it's really time to move on to the next stage untill that has been done.

[Muratus del Mur]

very very interesting and useful feedback.

 

i also see stage 12 as one that brought more energy into md.

We can't finish everything in stage 12 before moving on... some features might take years before they are fully implemented because they wait for the right time and depend on other features, or sometime I wait to see the social impact of such changes and how people will use them (like the herbs for example).

 

Someone said these are beta versions and md is not commercialy ready..... well, i don't intend it to be actually. Do you think that a project of this magnitude, after TEN YEARS of continuous development, will ever be "done". MD is always "complete" it just keeps growing in a way that makes it look as if its not complete. If i where to cut and remove unfinished features entirely, the remaining ones would make a perfectly "finished" game.... but i don't want that... i want md to keep evolving, daily if possible.

 

This is why they are called stages and not alpha/beta versions.

 

 

A25 can't be fully operational at this time, the changes required for it to function are a stage in their own. In my view, the fact that the TOOLS to implement a25 are done, and the concept itself, are enough change for one stage.

 

 

The list lashtal made is absolutely ..refreshing..for me :)

I got a good view of the overall size of this stage, that is probably the biggest in md history....and i wonder, is it just a coincidence that this stage is about to end now at the 10'th anniversary? :) hmm..:)

 

 

 

What means a stage change for me, and indirectly what effects this might have on my involvement in md development? I think a new stage forces me to see everything with new eyes and gives me more force for big changes, and thats what is needed now. The A25 tools gave me courage to proceed with these changes, that are huge, ..but a25 is still far from being implemented. One of the changes a25 brings is the total removal of the story mode, and introductions of factions.

These are things in addition to the scene editing stuff i worked on so far....brr...scarry...

 

I will wait a bit more for now...maybe finish some of the things i recently started first.

 

Anyway this review is amazing, thank you.

[Chewett]

I think project Omega is admin/dev thing, smoother server maintenance and monitoring and such. At least so I understood from that announcement.

 

Yes.