Principle Documents

[Aia del Mana]

I had noticed of late the increasing number of the realm who hath attained Mind-Power, yet were unable to assign a Principle, as the Story Mode were no more. I note that there were not a single one of the new visitors of the realm that had even attained a third principle; some had not even attained their first.

Although I lament the loss of the Story, I should like to propose that one who doth obtain such a Principle Document may then add that principle to that which they were attuned. Such a document should read of such a principle, and upon finding it, should allow the reader to add it to their own principles, if they have Mind-Power that exceedeth their known principles.

An example may be made of placing the Principle of Balance within the Gazebo of Equilibrium, or the Principle of Darkness within Deathmarrow, the Principle of Light within the Shrine of the Angiens, and so on, in places of the realm that were exemplars of such principles. Then, one who hath not that principle may simply visit that location and read the document within to learn it.

Such documents would work such that one need not commit to learning their principles once read, yet, they give opportunity to do so. In this way, all may find them in the same manner as some spell documents.

 

I am happy to be audience to all who may support, or refute, such an idea.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Aia del Mana

[lashtal]

Very nice idea, I'd support it.

[Fang Archbane]

Honestly a revolutionary idea.

Id support it as well assuming the Principles werent linked to any blocked scenes thus giving certain choices an advantage.

[Chewett]

On 28/12/2017 at 7:39 AM, Aia del Mana said:

I had noticed of late the increasing number of the realm who hath attained Mind-Power, yet were unable to assign a Principle, as the Story Mode were no more. I note that there were not a single one of the new visitors of the realm that had even attained a third principle; some had not even attained their first.

Although I lament the loss of the Story, I should like to propose that one who doth obtain such a Principle Document may then add that principle to that which they were attuned. Such a document should read of such a principle, and upon finding it, should allow the reader to add it to their own principles, if they have Mind-Power that exceedeth their known principles.

An example may be made of placing the Principle of Balance within the Gazebo of Equilibrium, or the Principle of Darkness within Deathmarrow, the Principle of Light within the Shrine of the Angiens, and so on, in places of the realm that were exemplars of such principles. Then, one who hath not that principle may simply visit that location and read the document within to learn it.

Such documents would work such that one need not commit to learning their principles once read, yet, they give opportunity to do so. In this way, all may find them in the same manner as some spell documents.

 

I am happy to be audience to all who may support, or refute, such an idea.

How rare would you make the access for some?

Angiens shrine for example is very hard to get to.

On a side note Angiens shrine doesn’t make much sense for light if you know what the angiens are as a note.

 

[Aia del Mana]

I had never visited the Shrine, so if it were not an exemplar in such a principle, then the document should not be placed within. I had seen many with Angiens within the realm, so mayhap it were much harder than I had thought. From across the lake, the Shrine doth appear to radiate light. Perhaps I will realise the true nature of't when I may visit it.

 

I think that although some principles should be harder to access, all should be feasibly achievable (without the expense of Wish-Points) at the Third Mind-Power, as one should be able to choose the aspects of one's self that may thus direct one's character. Furthermore, at least a single principle should be placed within each land - to add to the character of each land.

 

My suggestions, with the aforementioned taken into account:

Entropy: Gazebo of Chaos

Balance: Gazebo of Equilibrium

Elements: Upon the peak in Gateway Island - and within the Paper Cabin for those that missed it

Cyclicity: Raven's Peace, Loreroot (as long as some may open the Entrance to Loreroot for others)

Darkness: Howling Gates (or Passage of War or any accessible, satisfactory part of Necrovion. Mayhap in Deathmarrow, if there could be  a way out).

Time: Hall of Statues in Lands of the East

Imagination: Sage's Keep, Marind Bell

Transposition: Pillars of Harmony, Golemus Golemicarum

Light: Hall of the Sun, MD Archives

Syntropy: House of Liquid Dust

 

Of course, those more well-travelled in the realm may suggest otherwise, and I am happy to defer to their wisdom.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Aia del Mana

[Syrian]

deathmarrow can be reached somewhat safely with a tour from lash, but players must find the option on the forums, maybe this could be more visible in game? overall i like this idea and provides a good purpose to exploration

[Aia del Mana]

My thoughts are that these should remain in accessible parts of the realm, for longevity. If Lashtal were to leave the realm, one would find it difficult to obtain the Principle of Darkness, despite it being easily accessible through the Story. Similar may be said about placing one within Loreroot - perhaps to place it upon Maple Road may have to suffice.

[Syrian]

9 minutes ago, Aia del Mana said:

My thoughts are that these should remain in accessible parts of the realm, for longevity. If Lashtal were to leave the realm, one would find it difficult to obtain the Principle of Darkness, despite it being easily accessible through the Story. Similar may be said about placing one within Loreroot - perhaps to place it upon Maple Road may have to suffice.

let the principle be part of the reward of getting into loreroot, there is no reason to place that one at the door when there is a quest given to the player to enter loreroot. necro i would agree with, it could be placed at the tunnel in MB

 

edit: it could also be placed in the east, at the foundation..

Edited December 30, 2017 by Syrian

[Fang Archbane]

17 hours ago, Aia del Mana said:

My thoughts are that these should remain in accessible parts of the realm, for longevity. If Lashtal were to leave the realm, one would find it difficult to obtain the Principle of Darkness, despite it being easily accessible through the Story. Similar may be said about placing one within Loreroot - perhaps to place it upon Maple Road may have to suffice.

Deathmarrow being the capitol (if memory serves) would easily be accessible by anyone with Necrovion Pass Papers.

These are not easy to reach, but it is definitely not impossible, and i know a certain troublesome WereWolf that can do just that.

The only problem i can see would be getting out again, but that is also doable, and not too complex assuming the assassins still do their role

Edited December 31, 2017 by Fang Archbane

[Syrian]

7 hours ago, Fang Archbane said:

Deathmarrow being the capitol (if memory serves) would easily be accessible by anyone with Necrovion Pass Papers.

these can only be gained at the capital , this isnt really a solution, the point Aia was trying to make was that they should be easy to attain with a little looking around, not hidden really far away, a new player isnt going to think about going all the way to the NC capital, even with tours, they aren't that visible to newcomers 

[Aia del Mana]

Indeed, as all principles were equally accessible within the Story, one should be able to learn them without significant issue, and without requirement of help from another - otherwise, we shall see the slow disappearance of some from the realm.

[Neno Veliki]

MDA with all other papers and literature it holds is a suitable place for that.

[Syrian]

 i do like the idea of having some hidden away in the library, or perhaps you have too visit the library firs,t and find the book, then read it, to get a clue as to where the principle is, and reading the book gives them the ability to collect it at the location it's placed. it would act as a sort of mini quest

Edited December 31, 2017 by Syrian

[Fang Archbane]

6 hours ago, Syrian said:

these can only be gained at the capital , this isnt really a solution, the point Aia was trying to make was that they should be easy to attain with a little looking around, not hidden really far away, a new player isnt going to think about going all the way to the NC capital, even with tours, they aren't that visible to newcomers 

My point being that if Lashtal dissapears its not the end of entering Necro, hes not the only one that can.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Fang Archbane

[Aia del Mana]

Indeed there were others - yet, they are also few in number. With the realm as it were, with more that do leave it, and none of the newer characters gaining entrance to Necrovion in other ways, it were not feasible that one should place a Principle Document within the boundaries of Necrovion that were inaccessible to most.

 

(I should also ask for the ability to remove a principle from a character to allow them to choose another - such a request hath been on mine profile papers for nine years! - and especially if the Documents of Magic Principles were implemented. Yet I know that such a request were unlikely to be granted, and should not in and of itself detract from the idea that I have suggested above.)

Edited January 8, 2018 by Aia del Mana

[Fang Archbane]

Im torn on this subject. While i would enjoy the ability to personally choose which principles we could obtain or keep, it seems ripe for abuse the way tokens work atm. If we could make it so principles dont affect tokens and revamp the token system, id be 100% for this.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Fang Archbane

[Aia del Mana]

I believe that thou hadst been a little misunderstood, Fang - I had asked for the ability to do this within the realm to be given as a personal ability, as others within the realm also have abilities unlike all others.

I have little intention of removing principles for the purposes of combat, and tokens - only for that of character progression and role-making.

For example, if thou hadst became the Fang of Twilight Equilibrium, and did then become Fang of True Death, then, if I had this ability, I could remove of thee the Principle of Balance, that thou couldst then accept the Principle of Entropy.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Aia del Mana

[Fang Archbane]

Aye, i was a tad misunderstood prior to your clarification, so thank you for that. I myself would not want anyone else to be any part of picking my own principles or lack thereof. I believe it would be both fun and interesting to combine in game exploration with the ability to overwrite old/add new principles, and if that is case in the end i am for this change only if it is within our own power and none other to change them as well as a token revamp where principles are not relevant factors for them or we will very quickly see the "perfect" set of principles that do not reflect who we are as individuals more so than what we most desire as a result from battle. If the token revamp is done and only you can pick your principles, then i am all for this idea.

[Chewett]

At the moment since they dont do much apart from for tokens, People would end up with optimal.

I think we need to introduce some other reasons for them?

What do people think?

[Ledah]

Add some cool magic, exclusively for battles that rely on principles. With lots of flashy effects and sounds.

 

[Chewett]

1 minute ago, Ledah said:

Add some cool magic, exclusively for battles that rely on principles. With lots of flashy effects and sounds.

 

More explosions needed eh?

[Ledah]

You can never have enough explosions.

[Aia del Mana]

I had also been under the impression that thine Principles also should dictate thine magic,

 

I suggest that a certain combination of Principles may also determine spells for thee, or that which may be unlocked in the Wish Shop.

As an example:

Transposition + Balance -> teleport to Paper Cabin spell (or from Gateway Island)
Entropy + Transposition -> open Necrovion entrance
Imagination + Darkness -> cast dreams
Light + Syntropy -> share vital energy

Of course, I believe this may simply add to that which a player would desire of the Principles, just to obtain these spells, which were not my intention. For this reason I had wanted the ability upon mine own character to remove the principle of another, with permission and only with very good reason, that doth encompass the identity and role of the character that doth wish the change.

 

Within combat, I would think that some Principles should boost certain creatures or abilities of them, without changing one's intrinsic statistics. Thus would exist a system whereby one wouldst be more inclined to use a particular creature in combat if one already has principles that do strengthen it.

As an example:

Balance -> boosts vampiric aura and skillvampire auras and gives extra stats when close to balanced wins and losses
Entropy -> boosts Martirism ability and decreases randomness of random attacks (Jokers/Grasans)
Syntropy -> boosts amount gained by heal and lifesteal ability and regeneration auras
Cyclicity -> boosts all stats depending on number of wins that particular ritual has won
Elements -> boosts abilities of Water Beings, Elementals, Trees, and Winderwilds
Imagination -> boosts abilities of Jokers, Santas, Nutcrackers, and Shades
Darkness -> increases chance for abilities to miss or change target (such as Freeze Aura on your creatures)
Light -> Unfreezes up to two extra creatures each ritual and boosts starting vitality
Time -> boosts creature abilities depending on age
Transposition -> boosts creature abilities when fighting against creatures of the same type

I believe the above would require quite a lot of code-work if something were to be implemented this way.

 

However, in the end, I believe that Principles should be of this intent - that they do define thine character, and her actions and behaviour within the realm, rather than to change combat, or to make one stronger than another. One couldst think that the benefits of Principles could also change with the seasons, or months, such that one cannot make a decision that were maximally optimal in the long term.

[Fang Archbane]

I have to say im impressed and humbled by the sheer research and dedication youve committed to this.
Im happy to say youve officially won me over, if its you and you ask for permission first as well as good reason.

[Mallos]

Great idea in my opinion. Reminds me of this topic:

Considering if losing a mindpower level would also cause you to lose a principle, then it would be useful to have ways to regain those principles when you advance again. Obviously this can happen through story mode as usual but I feel this opens up a potential abuse, story mode gives you stat gains (and aren't they percentage based? if so people could use that for huge stat gains, repeatedly losing/gaining mp level to repeat story mode for these stats) having these documents is a good work around so people do not have repeating story mode in this case.

 

Also I disagree on reworking the token bonuses based on principles it's fine(ish) as is, if you want to give a reason to have suboptimal principle choices then give principles more uses as Chew suggests and I am all for that.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Mallos
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