.....

No, goddamn, limited usage is the same as a spell or so. Why the hell should you have bought any tokens if they don't work all the time?

And, if you honestly ONLY add something like 200 in total to it, it's crap. I then pretty much see almost no reason to buy any. Especially with you making tokens either substitute for stat/ve, then it's getting more useless, because a little farming with personal stats gives you more than this.

And as already was pointed out, unless you totally cripple tokens, making them so useless nobody wants to buy them anymore (or just shut them off), or totally remodel it, I see little way to make it happen that everything is balanced.

Gosh, even if I were to sit down and get paid for making such a system I think I'd need a month to get the construct done.

Umm... didn't I just suggest limiting the bonus based off a percentage of personal stats? "because a little farming with personal stats gives you more than this." And if you do that little bit of farming the bonus goes up. No amount of farming will ever match farming plus tokens, or make tokens negligible since their bonus is base of your stats. (Indirectly. The cap would be based on YOUR stats, the amount the give still based on principals.) And 200 attack per critter is nice. Maybe you don't care for an extra 1200 attack (assuming you have one on each critter, of course you could have more than one on each, claw III, claw II blah blah.) Of course, 200 attack might be based on MY stats. (Again, percentage not mentioned) For me it might also be something else depending on that percentage.

Edited September 8, 200916 yr by Guybrush Threepwood

That's what I mentioned way earlier, such a cap..cripple them entirely.

And otherwise, the percentage won't work. Count the farmers, count their principles, and even if you orient on them, making the percentage low, people still will have endless stats, while the non farmers suffer.

A cap that would double your attack would make them useless? Why on earth do you bother grinding then? Doubling all grinding efforts in the future as well as everything you've done in the past seems darned nice to me.

i'm failing to see your issues, Shadow...
doubled stats via tokens looks totally good to me...

every one of the now overpowered (darksky, darkshield, kelle'tha [still? don't have one to test], claw 1-3, tokens gets changed, making each token for one specific stat... luck, power, attack, def, regen, init... NONE of them two times if possible...

and capping principle charge out at... mabye 20k? 1k for 5% extra stats, 20k for 100% extra stats, 100k still just 100% extra stats... til 20k principles, you gotta do a damn lot of principle-grinding XD

or have the better stats increased much less, like init and regen...
just for example:
claw 1: power, max charge 80%, 1% per 300 entropy
claw 2: attack, max charge 60%, 1% per 100 light
claw 3: init, max charge 30%, 1% per 400 balance
dark shield: def, max charge 120%, 1% per 150 darkness
dark sky: luck, max charge 70%, 1% per 500 time

such things? that way you can still grind on and on with your principles and it pays, but it doesn't make stats completely useless...
ofc the principle vs. token charge thing would have to be taken out again, else the tokens are really worthless :/

I am tired of this discussion. And the more I read the more I think my idea is the best (). Tokens should mean auras. Or special triggers.

yeah i said the same, auras, abilities or somethin, dont mess with stats

You guys do realise that we have people with like 700 init (I exaggerate a bit, but it should be around 400 to 500) and like over 50k principles? And that balancing tokens this way would change little, since the increase in stats like init still would be huge? And the impact it leaves still so much that you just cannot beat some people unless you work forever?

Well, that aside, I handed something in to Mur..although i doubt he will read it. If he doesn't, then I may post the version here, but only may, since it's may spoil things and all, but it's a remodeled version which should..should of course, balance combat properly for now.

At least until we have people with like 2k initiative and 30k attack popping out..it's always the same. But you get me.

Before tokens came out people with massive stats were strong. Tokens that increase based on those stats would make them... Strong... Wait, they were already unreasonable. So now a guy with 200 initiative has 400 and a guy with 400 has 800, how is this a problem? It won't take any more or less work to catch up with those people.

As for what I was thinking for the cap, it was more of, 1/3rd of your light principal goes to attack, with a max of 80% (whatever) of your personal attack. That way for the full effect people with lesser stats would need lesser principals, but Burn's way works too. Or even better, the percentage would not be based of of the personal stat, but the stat that critter has before any other effects are added in a battle. (This way if you use 6 critters, the token will be less effective, returning some cause for using less critters, assuming you don't have a bunch of BPs Imps or Rustys that is.)

I just don't see why people (or just you) want to limit tokens to be stat based.

I am no stat grinder, and here I am, being able to kill most of the people. And I would like to see a system implemented which stay out of stats, since that would be a nice alternative.

And yeah, the system nobody of you has seen yet (I'm still pondering if it's a spoiler or not) would solve the trouble with overly massive stats. But it's pretty much crippling tokens imo compared to the current status, making them useful to a certain degree, but not too strong. And combat would actually be possible again if you just have the right mixture of creatures, stats and tokens even against 5 rustgolds and 1 GG with huge tokens.

And yeah, it's pretty much overhaul for almost each tokens etc.

Personally, my reason to limit tokens based on stats is: battle is supposed to be based on stats IMO. Tokens and principles should be able to influence them and make battles not just a matter of stats, but they should not be able to determine the outcome alone, nor should they be able to compete with stats on an even ground. IMO they're supposed to add only a flavor to combat, not be the major force determining it.

Useful auras, that aren't overpowered, aren't already in the game, and won't take forever to program? And you need to make a different one for each token? Good luck.

Edited September 10, 200916 yr by Guybrush Threepwood

Well, seeing as I doubt mur will read my pm (it's too long ) those who want a copy of my new system (and if they're skilled enough to know enough not to get spoilers imo) then they'll get a copy of the sys I suggest. Anyone care to check?

Needless to say, I'm killing myself with the system if it gets added, I'll be a LOT weaker.

And Udgard, it's exactly that way actually in the system I have, as far as my simulations go.

*fully supports Shadow's system*

THIS is balanced, this brings strategy back on stage... me loves =)

I'd love to take a look at it I suppose. If you would like to quiz me on some things first, go ahead. I understand that you may not consider me knowledgeable enough on the subject of tokens and battles to not end up getting too much information.

I agree, Its a very nice proposal. But then again i HATE tokens

I would like to see your new system

Exp from the positive comments above me

Edit:Spelling

Edited September 11, 200916 yr by juntaozhu15

Those interested get me a list of all tokens..no worries, I know what they all do.

Give me that and you'll get the new sys list.

I like Shadowseeker's idea

I don't agree with all the values, but the general idea is good

Heck, I don't like the values myself. I'm one of the people who will suffer from it, and one major downside are angiens...they'd unbalance things soon, probably.

But it should balance combat for now...if mur works on it that is.

This could balance any and all stat-boosting tokens, no matter how powerful.

My idea: a dynamic debuff aura on every tokened creature. Call it "Scar Link".
Cut, say, 10 or 20% of the strength of every other tokened creature in play.
Also pin its effect to the slider - at 100% it does not effect the tokened creature; at 0% it has full effect on the creature.

This would compound for every tokened creature in play (as compound interest does).

The point is that this would lower the overall stats of a creature to 5-30% of its original stats. Making it extremely vulnerable to a Tormented Soul's stat suck aura, because it would calculate on original stats. Even giving the tokened creature negative stats if the effect is intensified.


To deter token stacking, add a separate debuff on each token (maybe call the effect "Scarred") as part of the token: cut, say, 2% of the strength of every tokened creature, including the one it's on. Not tied to the slider.

Principle cap doesn't balance it enough? 4000 is easy to get...also, revived topic? After 3 months? O_O

Edited December 5, 200916 yr by Pipstickz

topic closed, an attempt at balencing is currently (being) implemented