Wp For Days

[Yoshi]

[quote name='Nex' date='08 December 2009 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1260315915' post='49473']
[b]regarding alt abuse:[/b]
an easy if inelegant solution would be to limit age based WPs to wishes that can only really benefit the activator. no use to farm alts for WPs when your 'main' can't benefit from it. you could use them for RP purposes or to test certain options/wishes, which is one of the things alts [b]can[/b] be used for.
[/quote]

Only thing is that, what if you already used your quest gained wishpoints and bought those wishes that only affect the activator, would the wishpoints you gain through your age then become obselete?

[Fenrir Greycloth]

My suggestion would be the easiest to implement and an easy way to counteract alt abuse.

Age wps would be in a limited Id range. Say 1-2000(not many people will get to many wps from age).

The wps would only be useable for certain functions, such as the wpshop. (nothing in there is abusable)

Wps available via quests would have an Id above that. So those will Be whole wps. Useable everywhere.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='09 December 2009 - 03:20 AM' timestamp='1260328816' post='49480']
My suggestion would be the easiest to implement and an easy way to counteract alt abuse.

Age wps would be in a limited Id range. Say 1-2000(not many people will get to many wps from age).

The wps would only be useable for certain functions, such as the wpshop. (nothing in there is abusable)

Wps available via quests would have an Id above that. So those will Be whole wps. Useable everywhere.
[/quote]

wishpoints will already have an id, so that means then they would all have to be incremented by 2000, And also i think that 2000 will approach pretty quickly, there are a lot of accounts, and a lot of players have 365 days

Isnt the point of giving people a wishpoint so that they can do what they want with it? its a bit like giving them a spell and telling them they can only use it for doing one specific thing. I dont think limiting will be useful as there will be less alts abusing the wp age feature than actual players using it, so you make the feature good for the majority. and then think of ways to limit it for the minority

[Orlando Gardiner]

[quote name='Nex' date='08 December 2009 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1260315915' post='49473']
[b]regarding alts/mains:[/b]
an obvious problem: how do you define alt and main? is the first char always the main? what if you mainly play your second or third, will you lose out on various possibilities because the first registered account would have had the chance to do this and that?

an example:
at least 3 of my chars could have been considered 'mains'. the first was mainly RP, the second, was originally used to test storymode and the finer points of battle mechanics and later became my 'main' for quite some time, then 'alt'-ish again when i started playing V.


[b]regarding alt abuse:[/b]
an easy if inelegant solution would be to limit age based WPs to wishes that can only really benefit the activator. no use to farm alts for WPs when your 'main' can't benefit from it. you could use them for RP purposes or to test certain options/wishes, which is one of the things alts [b]can[/b] be used for.
[/quote]


Well, there will be just one down side, indeed everyone's first account should count als main, meaning that only people who use another account than their first will lose a small benefit. I's just a choise you can make, no one forces you to use another account..

[Yoshi]

Hmmm... quick question, if this does get implemented, what would the quality rating be when awarded, and would it say directly awarded from Muratus del Mur? Ok so it was two questions

[Grido]

as for who from, well Broken Pattern has it's own rewarder name, so i figure one can be named ''For Activity" or something, and rating probably 5

[Chewett]

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='09 December 2009 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1260358159' post='49495']
Well, there will be just one down side, indeed everyone's first account should count als main, meaning that only people who use another account than their first will lose a small benefit. I's just a choise you can make, no one forces you to use another account..
[/quote]

The problem is, is that people anyone who has shared an account with anyone else for any period of time will be an "alt" of someone else, i think my account has been used at 5-20 different locations, let alone my dynamic ip that will throw off the "alt checker"

And, my first account isnt my main, and i dont use him much so it would be utterly annoying to not get the wishpoint, a lot of people have created a second account after they went wrong with the first one so i wonder why it should be penalised

Perhaps instead of an automatic wishpoint, make it so you press a button to "ask" for one. Mur can then have an admin page that he see's who has asked along with relevent infomation such as the alt checker, it would mean its automised so he wont have to check the database everytime and he could even give it to someone to do for him. Either way it wouldnt be much work since its going to be every 2 years/6 months per account, and most accounts rarely reach the latter

[Kafuuka]

I don't really care much about the number of WP/year, the WP codes are likely to cause inflation anyway.

As for alt abuse there is one relatively simple method to make it impossible: change the way items are made and don't add useful creatures to the WP shop. Afaik everything else in there cannot be traded and I don't think it's a secret that I disagree with the item creation process. As I said in the market debates there needs to be a creative and a destructive flux of items if you want to sustain circulation. If WP abuse for items would lead to larger creative flux, that might actually be a good thing.

If you however want to check alts, I don't believe there to be a 100% efficient system and manually approving "good alts" is going to be tedious at best.

[Orlando Gardiner]

When hearing everyone and think of it more clearly, I think there is no such thing as a good abuse-proof way of doing this. so it's either life with it or don't award the wishpoints. I mean, we can let mur do a lot of extra work by checking everything manually, but that would just be sick and annoying. he's trying to do something nice, we shoulden't punish him for that..

if there is no way Mur doesen't have to do much extra work, and no way to make it abuse-proof, than we should perhaps see of this plan, and do it the old fashion way..

[Observer]

I'd say give some "reachable" age for newbies to get one... Maybe 100 days or so? Then at 365 and every year after. That way everyone has a feeling they can get a WP this way.

[Aeoshattr]

I was thinking something like 3 - 6 - 9 - 12 months. Regular intervals. (the point isn't that they're 4 WP, is that they're given at regular intervals)

[Chewett]

[quote name='Aeoshattr' date='11 December 2009 - 06:34 AM' timestamp='1260513256' post='49618']
I was thinking something like 3 - 6 - 9 - 12 months. Regular intervals. (the point isn't that they're 4 WP, is that they're given at regular intervals)

[/quote]

Thats what mur was suggesting...

But he was more suggesting 6 12 18 24 or 12 24 or just every 24 months...

[Aeoshattr]

made my point, no further need to discuss
XD

Edited December 11, 2009 by Aeoshattr

[Kragel]

i do like this idea alot could see it doing well for helping keep people active (cough) not like i have been active but that was unavoidable sadly

however tho i think very few if any alts should get any from this

and i think all the people who have done things in the game like rpcs and lhos should perhaps get some since the rpcs could not really get them while making the quests

anyway this is my 2c

glad to be back hope i have not missed too much to fit back in the game i love so much

[Orlando Gardiner]

Perhaps a rule for the rpc's

for every 100 awarded 5 grade(valued to be a really good quest) a wishpoint for themself.,
like this their stimulated to make more an better guest(not their not making any now,
their already hard enough:P) and to award a lot of players.


Buuuut this is totaly not the subject here, so I'm goign to be silence again:P

but is there anything going to be decided?

ps: another point: what about 1 wishpoint a year? and than given at christmas or something? this way only active people deserve it, but you wont have to be online for a whole year..

[Redd]

[quote name='Chewett' date='11 December 2009 - 02:42 PM' timestamp='1260513763' post='49620']
Thats what mur was suggesting...

But he was more suggesting 6 12 18 24 or 12 24 or just every 24 months...
[/quote]

6 months for the first WP? That'll defy the purpose of encouraging new players. As Mur said, the first WP is important, and I agree. I think Observer's idea is good. One WP for newbies(between 2 and three months) another for his first year, then the regular interval of receiving WPs for the second year(every 6 months), and so on..


[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='16 December 2009 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1260961187' post='50411']
ps: another point: what about 1 wishpoint a year? and than given at christmas or something? this way only active people deserve it, but you wont have to be online for a whole year..
[/quote]

How can you measure loyalty by that scenario? I can just log in for one day each year and receive a WP? Or what if a veteran misses that one day? Better luck next year? I don't think so..
And yes, you need to be online for a whole year to reap the respective reward.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='16 December 2009 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1260961187' post='50411']
Perhaps a rule for the rpc's

for every 100 awarded 5 grade(valued to be a really good quest) a wishpoint for themself.,
like this their stimulated to make more an better guest(not their not making any now,
their already hard enough:P) and to award a lot of players.

[/quote]

Rpcs? Rpcs have been disbanded for at least a month.

And rewarding them based on how many they give out will just mean that they would give out more to increase the chances.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Chewett

[Orlando Gardiner]

[quote name='Redd' date='16 December 2009 - 01:47 PM' timestamp='1260971267' post='50416']
6 months for the first WP? That'll defy the purpose of encouraging new players. As Mur said, the first WP is important, and I agree. I think Observer's idea is good. One WP for newbies(between 2 and three months) another for his first year, then the regular interval of receiving WPs for the second year(every 6 months), and so on..




How can you measure loyalty by that scenario? I can just log in for one day each year and receive a WP? Or what if a veteran misses that one day? Better luck next year? I don't think so..
And yes, you need to be online for a whole year to reap the respective reward.
[/quote]

Your absolutly true. But who would log on each your to get a WP when your not playing it anyway? and indeed, veterans missing it trough christmas would be a problem...

[quote name='Chewett' date='16 December 2009 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1260976958' post='50418']
Rpcs? Rpcs have been disbanded for at least a month.

And rewarding them based on how many they give out will just mean that they would give out more to increase the chances.
[/quote]

Believe in humanity and that people who do the quest vote seriously about someones quest, and not to just give the maximum score. It's not only about quantity, also about quality:)

Edited December 16, 2009 by Orlando Gardiner

[Redd]

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='16 December 2009 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1260978929' post='50424']
...But who would log on each your to get a WP when your not playing it anyway?...
[/quote]

My point is that, in your idea, a player who plays year-round and someone who just plays on some occasions will have the same reward. Remember that this whole WP scheme is based on the concept of loyalty. So, in your opinion, do they have the same degree of loyalty? I'm guessing not..


I like the idea of giving WPs to quest creators, but the premise of that is good quality of quests. It requires a strict process(mostly ratings), and should be talked about in a separate thread..

[Burns]

I can't speak for all quest-creators, but i think most would like more reward-codes better than wishpoints to spend themselves... i mean, sure, getting one or two as specail reward would be nice, but it would lead to a huge decrease in quality of quests, and insanely increase the quantity of quests, leading the system ad absurdum, if every bloody stupid action you do is part of a quest, where's your own role?

i'd like it much better if WPs were limited to questees, questers can do other peopels quests anyway, it's not like back then when RPCs were the source of WPs and it was frowned upon when they did quests of other RPCs, now any quest could bring WPs and anybody can participate if they want to, so there is no reason to give out Wishes for the quest-creators imo...
unless something is really brilliant and time-intesive, like Cutlers quests, then appropriate rewards would surely fit, but that's already being done anyways LOL

so, to conclude: i'd like it better to get more reward-codes for being a good quest-creator and do more evil experimental quests, than get a WP and buy something in the shop for the bragging rights, and i don't think that i'm the only one with that opinion

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Burns' date='16 December 2009 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1260983831' post='50428']
I can't speak for all quest-creators, but i think most would like more reward-codes better than wishpoints to spend themselves... i mean, sure, getting one or two as specail reward would be nice, but it would lead to a huge decrease in quality of quests, and insanely increase the quantity of quests, leading the system ad absurdum, if every bloody stupid action you do is part of a quest, where's your own role?

i'd like it much better if WPs were limited to questees, questers can do other peopels quests anyway, it's not like back then when RPCs were the source of WPs and it was frowned upon when they did quests of other RPCs, now any quest could bring WPs and anybody can participate if they want to, so there is no reason to give out Wishes for the quest-creators imo...
unless something is really brilliant and time-intesive, like Cutlers quests, then appropriate rewards would surely fit, but that's already being done anyways LOL

so, to conclude: i'd like it better to get more reward-codes for being a good quest-creator and do more evil experimental quests, than get a WP and buy something in the shop for the bragging rights, and i don't think that i'm the only one with that opinion
[/quote]
If quest creation is to be rewarded it would make sense for the rewards to be the same as for artisans, right? The RPC thing is of the past and the only other reason i can think of is that clicky acces costs a WP. Maybe a single time refund?

I agree that more tools is what I as a creator want: WP codes, other prizes, script features (although i have to try the existing ones first)...

Also, most people seem to propose linear WP-days relationships or piecewise linear relationships. Why not make it some mathematical function like the fibonacci series? It would be fun for people to figure out when they will get the next one (until a spoiler occurs, and obviously fibonaaci isn't useful now that i mentioned it; of course a function with the id as seed would be difficult to spoil, but might be difficult to keep fair and unconfusing).
For this it might make more sense not to reward retroactively, but start the count at zero for all players; maybe an extra WP for the first to crack the series, that would set the record for longest lasting contest

[Chewett]

[quote name='Kafuuka' date='16 December 2009 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1260989189' post='50433']
I agree that more tools is what I as a creator want: WP codes, other prizes, script features (although i have to try the existing ones first)...
[/quote]

But isnt the idea that you get them yourself and do the quest? You can already get WP codes and prizes such as crits, silver and items

And if you havent tried the script, take it from me, Its much more than many will use. Basicly its php but to make it intresting a few more functions need to be added.

[Jubaris]

so, does this thing falls into the water or what?
clearly we won't all agree on same system for rewarding them, its up to you Mur, which suggestion you find more productive, if this is going to be done

[cutler121]

The incentive for making quests I think would be a good new thread since at this point there really isn't any besides the enjoyment of doing it or to try programming something new (if you're into that kind of thing).

In the past quests were one of the requirements of being an PRC (which never really worked well) and the "benefit" of being an RPC was the reward.

At this point I might suggest giving the ability to give spell docs to people who make quests so that could be another form of reward as well.

For my quests I have given out all of the WP I was given, in addition to several of my old creatures to people who felt cheated because of the one WP per awardee rule. I really disliked it when RPCs said they were going to reward me a WP and then never did (that happened 2 times) and didn't want to do that to other people.

At this point I don't really have anything else to give out so I am helping other people with their quests and not making any more of my own until I have something to reward.

I guess my big question is if Mur wants quests to be an important part of MD or not. It seems like there are lots of good ideas about ways to add to MD and having some carrots would be a nice incentive.

Cheers,

Cutler

[LadyDawn]

Hi!
Let me add my bucket of thoughts here...

Yes, I believe there should be WP reward for days. If someone plays the game for a year or more that shows dedication, delibration and persistance and those things should be rewarded.

As for the years... well, what about 1 year is 1wp, 2 years is 2 wp, 3 is 3wp and so on? Just a thought...

As for alts... Well, considering the fact that trading between alts is not allowed I would say that alts should be rewarded also but at same time it should be somehow made so that alts cant trade them between them at all and period. I will not pretend that I know how much work would such feature demand, because I dont know.
The problem that I see if "so called alts" (since not all chars from same IPs are actualy alts) would not receive them is following: What about all those people that play from same computer? If so would be decided then only one person would be rewarded, probably the one that plays a bit more and I dont see how that would be fair for the other one. Not every family can aford two or three computers so they play from one.
And as a second note... If someone has alt or two or maybe even more and if those alts are all active (not just as a log in for days, but as actual playing them) then that person that has them also would deserve a "little" reward on those chars, dont you think?

Anyhow, thats my two cents...