Newbies, What Upset/scare You All?

[Novato]

I hope it's the right place to start this kind of topic.

The issue is that there is a lot of veterans talking about what scare the newbies, but few (if any) newbies talk about that. By another hand, maybe it's normal newbies give up the game before even read something in the forum. Again, it's just a theory.

I don't want to offend the vets, but if a newbie want to give up the MD he/she opinion is better than an MP5 theory. Of course, if a newbie don't understand the game mechanism, he/she could talk about foolish things (probabily it will happen a lot). But, even in this case, we will have the chance to learn how to teach them. Please, avoid sarcams. It's ok, in my opinion, attack without mercy someone ideias (the ideias change), but not the person himself.

If just one or two newbies write anything on this topic it's enought for me.

[Harion]

well, i'm not a newbie but i've gone through what all newbs had at one point.
MD is a difficult game to understand. not everyone has the patience to figure out everything.
gamers today have been so used to being able to find out everything in FAQs that when they encounter a game where spoilers are forbidden,
they immediately give up.
even asking Live Help will not give you everything as they too will not tell you the answer to a question when it is a considered spoiler.

in my experience, i had a lot of adepts (real recruits i made posting my ref link, and not my alts) and all of them quit when they reached the point where they can't beat the lore root guards. i only had one adept go to mp4 and even that player quit the moment they experience the horrible beat down all players get when relatively new in the next mp stage.

[Arkhaim]

[quote name='Harion' timestamp='1280778563' post='64969']
well, i'm not a newbie but i've gone through what all newbs had at one point.
MD is a difficult game to understand. not everyone has the patience to figure out everything.
gamers today have been so used to being able to find out everything in FAQs that when they encounter a game where spoilers are forbidden,
they immediately give up.
even asking Live Help will not give you everything as they too will not tell you the answer to a question when it is a considered spoiler.

in my experience, i had a lot of adepts (real recruits i made posting my ref link, and not my alts) and all of them quit when they reached the point where they can't beat the lore root guards. i only had one adept go to mp4 and even that player quit the moment they experience the horrible beat down all players get when relatively new in the next mp stage.
[/quote]

"Sorry mates, where can i find... or what is... ?"
"look right or left or up or down, you must find yourself" "i can't spoiler"

i can't find pure water, i can't understand why i should attack idle people to gain stats for something i don't know... reading here i can't understand a word about 90% of threads...

i leave for this: too high learning-curve...

you should change your laws... something like tutoring people till a certain point... like in real life we do with young children...

Gl all, mates

Edited September 3, 2010 by Arkhaim

[Curiose]

The reasons why we're so cryptic, and can't say most things because it is a spoiler, is because it ruins the game play not only of that particular person, but of other players as well.

If you stick your neck in long enough, it won't seem so hard, and you'll learn to understand the meaning. MD is not just a game that you go clicking around in, and ask people for all the answers, it's a mentally challenging, and stimulating one.

If you ask more general questions, then people would be able to help you more. People will help you to the highest degree they can, but not if you give them that chance to. If you storm off frustrated because no one is giving you the answer you're looking for, what do you gain from that?

There is nothing wrong with MD's rules. Attacking idle players while at the Dojo is so that the younger, active, players who are just LEARNING the process have a chance to figure things out on their own. That is why we set up the sign in that area. They can get the losses and wins that they need, without the feeling of predation from other players, despite the fact that it still happens.

I would say that I am sorry to see you go, but if you haven't bothered trying to play MD, I have no words for you.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Arkhaim' timestamp='1283527257' post='67620']
"Sorry mates, where can i find... or what is... ?""look right or left or up or down, you must find yourself" "i can't spoiler"i can't find pure water, i can't understand why i should attack idle people to gain stats for something i don't know... reading here i can't understand a word about 90% of threads...i leave for this: too high learning-curve...you should change your laws... something like tutoring people till a certain point... like in real life we do with young children...Gl all, mates
[/quote]

I always wonder why people have all these issues, when i started i managed to solve each puzzle as it was created rather easily. Has something changed about beserkers or something?

That was before these lovely "lho" people. I just dont see what people are having issues with as long as you read the hints and just throw yourself in and try to play MD.

[The Phoenix]

[b]Chew, Several days ago there was a player also with the Pure fountain water issue, and after some pm i realized that he already managed to found the "place" but not the "water", lots of them try to click the "in sight" water, but not the "unseen" water.[/b]

Check this:
"i was here before but i can't see water its just fishy and if u click cmd prop will appear !"

[b]Well.. Thats his last PM to me, Just an intermezzo..Honestly that was just an unlucky moment for him i think..LOL [/b]

Edited September 3, 2010 by The Phoenix

[adiomino]

right... i remember finding the fountain but it took me a good 5 minutes to find out that you had to click the <insert clicky name here> to get the fountain water.

[Chewett]

Well, admittedly its slightly harder, but right from the start i learnt to look for anything to click, its not as if its hidden because it does light up

[Metal Bunny]

The game would lose its appeal without its 'steep learning curve', because if you do find it steep, you will most probably not be into the social interaction, nor the inquisitive nature of the game itself. If the game was designed to keep as much of its incoming business as it could, then mur may as well have gone with the lovely marketing campaign that evony has.

If you can't be bothered to learn to learn about and from the game, then getting past the mp3 stage or other hardships such as the loreroot guardians, is not an obstacle that needs to be removed, then it is a filter and you're were never willing, regardless of being able, of truly playing this game. Because it's not just a game anymore, not by a long shot, not for a very long time.

[Ravenstrider]

To be honnest, it was confusing for me as well, the first couple of days... Mostly because of new concepts... Berserker challenge was easy for me, as well as Loreroot guards, when I finally bothered to see what creatures they actually have and what they do...

I still consider myself a newbie... I have a basic grasp of the combat mechanics, I have given some thought to some of the concepts underlaying the realm of MD, but that's about as far as I got...

The thing is: Loreroot guards aren't really that important, it's a milestone in learning how to create decent rituals... I had creatures from Loreroot before I defeated the guards... You don't have to go to China to have a silk handkerchief, but it can be useful to know a merchant.

Some people just don't understand what the game is about and approach it in a wrong way. They don't find a place for themselves. There is a lot more to MD then just fighting.

For example, I invited a friend to MD and gave him no spoilers... I helped by giving one or two creatures, but that's it... And he is doing very well for now, because I told him what I wrote here... Don't focus on combat, keep your mind open for new things, be patient, don't give up easily... and most importantly: Find a place for yourself.

Join the Guardians of Bob, join the Enemies of Bob... Find out more about the lands and their nature... See where you could fit best, develop your role...


These are very basic advices any player would give you... The thing is, people don't tend to listen to advice and are frustrated because you don't want to tell them how to defeat the guards...


Edit: What upset me? Hm... The fact that some people demand respect from me even though I don't really know them... Go figure... ^.^

Edited September 3, 2010 by Ravenstrider

[Tipu]

I once had 16 Adepts then i left MD for 8 months when i came back i saw this

[IMG]http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv291/kvsubash/adepts2.jpg[/IMG]

Problem is
Spolier , Lore root guards, tokens, Weapon sets and MD shop creatures( which they don't have).

Solution
Beating loreroot guards will gain access into LR - that not a spoiler
use blah blah blah creature to defeat LR guards thats a spoiler.

Lore root Guards
The first set guards - an average player can defeat, but the second is way too hard to defeat them. The ritual has been changed there is no weakness in their strength. The old easy way of defeating the LR guards is now no more only brute force can take them down. Only players who have defeated them lately can understand what iam talking about. The Aimed Hit ability for LR archer have changed the Odds.
my request is players should not get personal EXP for Lost battles against LR guards. This will make many player to try and find solution by themselves rather than asking some one.

Weapon sets : the above can solve this problem too.

Tokens and MD shop creatures: I have no solution for this one. well i used to give them false rumors that they have negative side effects

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Tipu' timestamp='1283645625' post='67692']
Solution
Beating loreroot guards will gain access into LR - that not a spoiler
use blah blah blah creature to defeat LR guards thats a spoiler.
[b]This is how it is (or should be), not sure what you're saying.[/b]

Lore root Guards
The first set guards - an average player can defeat, but the second is way too hard to defeat them. The ritual has been changed there is no weakness in their strength. The old easy way of defeating the LR guards is now no more only brute force can take them down. Only players who have defeated them lately can understand what iam talking about. The Aimed Hit ability for LR archer have changed the Odds.
[b]I can't be 100% sure, but I'm 80-90% sure that the old method is still a viable option, if you modify it just a tiny bit.[/b]
my request is players should not get personal EXP for Lost battles against LR guards. This will make many player to try and find solution by themselves rather than asking some one.
[b]This, I agree with, though it would probably be hard for Mur to do.[/b]

Weapon sets : the above can solve this problem too.
[b]Not sure what you're talking about here, explain a bit? But in any case, weapons/armour are not necessary for anything, really, but they do help.[/b]
Tokens and MD shop creatures: I have no solution for this one. well i used to give them false rumors that they have negative side effects
[b]While these things do give quite a bonus, it is quite possible to beat them with normal things, or even to get them without paying (free credits), and even if you don't beat them, it's only a few losses. By the way, it's never really a good idea to spread false rumours.[/b]
[/quote]
Good job for thinking up ideas, in any case.
My edits are in bold.

[dragonrider7]

Hi,
I think its just the mindset and imagination that brings the interest in the game. I always loved fanatsies, magic and more or less the Dragons and more than anything the drawing in the game impressed me alot, and I just played as if I am sucked into the realm and it was just easy. I never had a confusion, but for me also there were so many adepts that joined the game and left, it will take sometime and you should have that level of imagination to like the game.

There were also great friends that helped me a lot like stormrunner, Eden etc


[size="1"][i]
PS: I havent solved any of the puzzles created by players.... I might not even try to solve them unless and until it makes me stuck somewhere. [/i][/size]




-rider

Edited September 5, 2010 by dragonrider7

[No one]

My personal experience ...

When I started the game, more then 2 years ago, there where no dojos there where no LHO but I got through.
At first ... I joined the game, I got through the story then I quit. It was boring. After a while (about 2-3 months) I found it again and I started to play it with another friend. And I'm playing ever since and (I will brag here) I did my fair share of influencing in this game.

[b]The point is [/b]: don't lose hope on noobs. If they are your friends, you can talk to them from time to time and tell them what happen in the mean time. You can tell them about your creatures and what you did with them and many other things. If you are a good story teller ... you will get your adepts back.

Of course, as this is still a game, it takes time and those that choose not to spend their time on this will not play no matter what you tell them.

Just don't discourage them away.

When I answer to questions, I do it with as many questions as I can. And if that person has the [u]courage[/u] to answer me, I am helping him to look for the answers in [b]the limit of my time[/b].

Showing ppl [u]how to find answers[/u] and [u]how to ask questions[/u] is the greatest help you can give to them. Spoilers are easy and few ppl understand them (from the beginning).

---
that is about it for now

[Mori]

Eh well I'm not that upset about these things, but there's a few things I've found annoying.

1. The mechanical sphere quest. Pretty much for a beginner this will be the first puzzle they find. All the hints people seem to give are about solving the puzzle, (use a pen and paper and the number 6) but the problem I had was that I couldn't activate the sphere to start with. You know how you have to find the "clue" to access the puzzle...? That's actually the harder thing to figure out in my opinion, the actual sphere was easy... consider for the begineer, who hasn't explored probably much there's a whole world to search for potential clues. And then the person goes to explore, perhaps out of out interest in exploring (as was the case for me) or maybe because they really want to find the clue.
So then they search all of Marind Bell, Lands of the East, MDA and still find nothing... I thought "do I have to go back and explore all these places again? or is there something else first like figuring out the Gazebo of Equilibrium..."

The only hint I needed was that the clue was a scroll... which someone told me, eventually (THANKYOU!)

2. CHAT COMMANDS, DEAR GOD CHAT COMMANDS. How do you emote? After looking through the help archives, submitting a live help request, asking in the beginner's cottage, and in Wind's Sanctuary, I still haven't been told or found out any information. I've tried all the obvious commands like /me /emote : and even typing my own name e.g. Mori jumps... just appears as Mori: Mori jumps. Yes please leave a message if you know. I still don't. EDIT: Huzzah! Someone helped me! I know now.
If your a noob how to emote is by *text* with the askerisks!

3. RPing... it's hard to "start a conversation", say in Marble Dale park there's lots of people talking or nobody is active. On the other hand the one time I've had a good opportunity, in the Lands of the East bar/coffee shop/whatsit with an ideal number of 4-5 people (the situation was one of them was telling about how she arrived in MD), I waited for her to finish but -since I didn't know how to emote- there was no way to indicate I'm activate without interupting mid-story. Then when the story was finished, the teller logged out (which is fair enough since presumably the player had stayed up late to tell the story) but the other people immediately left also...

4. Orientation. It's really easy to waste action points if you don't know which arrows face which way (sometimes the hottip telling which way the arrow goes doesnt appear).
An even worse example: I carried a torch into Golemius to explore and got rid of the torch once inside. While im exploring Golemius I click into the maze. Now I'd already gone into MDA lands and read the sign about the maze on the way so I know I -really really really dont want to get lost- but guess what, there's three possible options to click from the first (accidental step) inside the maze... and you have no way of knowing which way you are "facing". So yes, I did misclick given I had a 2/3 chance to do so, and almost got lost IN THE MAZE! Luckily I found my way back after another 2-3 moves by figuring out which way the pictures were oriented...


That said I'm having fun with MD and props to Mur and all the other people who've contributed.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Mori

[Muratus del Mur]

i suggest to do an experiment, one or more vets should take a random noob (that actually talks or asks something first) and spoil everything for him, like for idiots, tell him everything he needs to know, step by step, where to go what to do , how and what to click to solve puzzles, everything he asks and when he is not asking let him know you can help him if he cant do it himself. lets see how this will influence his behaviour.

unfortunatly its a marketing problem, ...now days "game" defines something disconnecting, relaxing, like looney toons. What i wanted here was an adventure, not as a game, but at all levels, mostly regarding human interaction. basically its not a game, and most expect a game. makes people lose patience fast. either we should change the way its presented, invitation only or such, or make it more game like by adding the classical skills branches and shit, to make people see they gather skill points or so...idk..i dont feel creative when it comes to change md into somehting more commercial sry.


very useful topic anyway, might be needed to make it permanent and advertise it better to the noobs. or even make it periodic, like starting it over with a number, so that noobs wont get scared to read a 100 posts topic, or not to let them influenced by previous ideas.

[Mavac]

My learning curve is flat....

Started out ok. Finish up in the hut, head out get som monsters, kill some monsters, start storyline and the "24 hour breaks"(I assume thats smart) but on the other hand doing that kinda cripple the experience. But whatever, thats my choice.

So the first quest i find. "The sphere". Obv cant figure it out at first. Some dude tell me to go to a place with lots of paper. I ask him "The library"? Obv wrong and I think he say no. Anyways I figure out the location since I have not been at to many places at this point.

I find the "clue". Did it make sense? Not at all. I even used pen and paper... Anyways after alot of failing and trying I guess I figured out the system and opened it(not because of the clue ). The problem here was that if you screw up the first time the numbers are just random... Is that with intention? So I had to close the sphere window and open it again for a "reset"? Hope im not spoiling anything..

Next quest. Player made i think. Fyrd something and his words. Got as far as actually finding his quests(wasnt to hard). Next part tho I dont get. Found the location for one but thats not really helpfull at all. Guess I need to hunt him down or something like that.

Btw: What are the benefits for becoming an adept?

Anyways, im hanging in there for now. No pain, no gain.

And why not have /me for emote command. Its *whatever* btw

And how do I heal monsters without using thoose newbie things? And can I heal dead creatures without thoose newbie things?

And all this whining isnt really helpfull.

Tips: Want to make a newbie experience better? Well, how about some "doable" quests at the start? At least 1 or 2 which are kinda hard to solve but made a way that makes em easy to solve. That way you get to know what is required to solve the quests.

And I thought I was good at problem solving :/

Edited September 22, 2010 by Mavac

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Mavac' timestamp='1285131418' post='68841']
Btw: What are the benefits for becoming an adept?
[b]Well, there is no technical or system benefit for BEING an adept like there is for HAVING an adept, but if you pick the right person, they could easily help you out with stuff, or teach you, or whatever. Then again, lots of people do that anyways >>[/b]

And why not have /me for emote command. Its *whatever* btw
[b]Just our style, I guess. Why be like everybody else? [/b]

And how do I heal monsters without using thoose newbie things? And can I heal dead creatures without thoose newbie things?
[b]If your creatures are below max VE, then there should be a yellow button beneath them that gets more faded as the creature gets closer to max VE. Clicking the button gives your creatures a certain percent of your VE, depending on how many adepts you have; I believe with no adepts it's 8%[/b]

Tips: Want to make a newbie experience better? Well, how about some "doable" quests at the start? At least 1 or 2 which are kinda hard to solve but made a way that makes em easy to solve. That way you get to know what is required to solve the quests.
[b]It would be neat to see a new puzzle of some sort, but remember that most of the quests in this game are made by the players. Occasionally there will be a challenge that Mur gives to people, but those are rare.[/b]
[/quote]
My edits are in bold.

[Mavac]

On emotes:

Your style? maybe... Newbie friendly? No

Notice the guy a few posts up who still dont know how to use emotes?

And now I finally know how to heal my damn creatures

[Pipstickz]

Everybody figures it out eventually, and it's not the hugest deal for the first while anyways.

[Udgard]

/me is not exactly newbie friendly as well. Not everyone knows that.. I know I wouldn't understand /me at all..
On the contrary, the *s has been used a lot by the RPers (oh, *s are not for emotes, technically, they are for RPing an action) and is much more intuitive than /me

[Mavac]

/me is universal, and It wouldnt hurt to add it into the mix if possible.

And its not the biggest problem, but people still have to go ooc if they want to explain it.

[Udgard]

Well, that's what I meant. /me might be 'universal' on some places, but maybe not as universal as you think. I know it's not common knowledge here at my place. And also, is /me an emote, or an action? It is common to use * to denote action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*#Games),as is its intention in MD, hence why the roleplayers here is accustomed to it - they've been using the *s before the feature to turn it to blue texts even existed.

I'd agree that it wouldn't [i]hurt[/i] to add it to the mix, though..

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Mavac' timestamp='1285131418' post='68841']
Next quest. Player made i think. Fyrd something and his words. Got as far as actually finding his quests(wasnt to hard). Next part tho I dont get. Found the location for one but thats not really helpfull at all. Guess I need to hunt him down or something like that.
[/quote]
The 'problem' with player made quests is that currently they are all Wish Point quests. A WP is the largest reward a quest can offer (imo) and therefore those quests are usually designed to be very tough. The quickest remedy I can think of is adding a 'difficulty rating' tag to the quest list. That would not result in easier quests, but at least you'd be warned.

[Curiose]

My two cents:

For being an Adept, I would recommend that you find someone who you trust, but isn't a newbie their self. Perhaps a veteren Mp5, or an Mp6. The person whom I am adept to is Pamplemousse, and I couldn't be happier. But that does not limit you to receiving help from others at all.

Currently on quests, Burns has created a Newbie quest.
I haven't done it yet because it deals with Willow's Guards... I already defeated them once, so I find it a bit redundant to do it again, but, I will find myself giving it a try.

If you at least -Try- quests, you can make friends, and acquaintences, and get yourself out there. The more you participate, the more you have fun. There aren't just quests though either that give wishpoints or other prizes.

Ailith is known for giving various gifts for the things she does. On her festival of Fun [Which actually was fun, and quite challenging if I say so myself, but was varied in different things], she rewarded people for their hard work. I applaud her for being able to do that, and for also making such a diverse festival.

There are a lot of things that are in MD that aren't just brain work. Legend Seekers and Seal of Six recently had a Story Night, for all those creative people. The results aren't in yet, but still, I believe that MD has the ability to accomodate all learning types, and interests.