I would like to hereby formally charge dst with Excessive Harassment, Stalking, and Slander. When I started almost a year ago, I was relatively unknown, I had stopped playing for a few months. As most of you are well aware, dst has taken it upon herself to constantly accuse me of being someone I am not. She has also taken it upon herself to constantly follow me, to use her abilities to read through private conversations with her Acoustic Remains ability, and then post these logs on the forum.

Yes, the game mechanics allow her to do this. I accept that. But there is a point to which is acceptable, calling up chat logs for events, ceremonies, and speeches, and then there is calling up chat logs at private locations to find dirt on people when there is absolutely no cause for such an action.

Therefore, I would like to charge dst with these accusations, I will submit my proof, and witnesses to the proper authority when asked to. I would also like to request that the Judge to be a Neutral party.

If I am correct, dst got to suggest a punishment for Fenrir in the last trial and I would like to do the same. I would like dst’s Acoustic Remains to be removed, since she does not use it for its intended use, and a jail time of one month for her account due to a very similiar situation that arose between Fenrir Greycloth and dst previously.

I have continuously tried to be reasonable with this woman, but she purposely goes out of her way to harass me for absolutely no real reason.

And what, if I may I ask, is the intended use for acoustic remains?

Pipstickz, please do not play coy. You know full well that she is misusing it.

I will rephrase the question then; What [i]do you think[/i] the intended use for acoustic remains is?

Interesting. I have so many arguments pertaining to both sides though I cant make a comment for either since I choose to be a lawyer and if this goes to court if I say anything it can be used against my argument. That being said I am obligated to say that you should settle this outside of court but since I am not aware of either of the methods used(I'm unsure sigheart if you have done anything at all to settle this and I am unsure of how dst responded as well as murs view of accoustic remains)then I have to remain neutral for the time being.

If both clients could come forward and tell me if they are using me or not. (Since I may be late to respond don't give me any details.) I would like to know as soon as possible as I would like to respond on this topic farther if I am not to be used.

I am aware this is a stupid question, but I am assuming you are Seigheart's user? Your forum profile does not say the player name in MD and I am little confused.

LOL DP yes, I am Seigheart.

And kamisha, I have contacted three times peacefully, and three times I have been answered with insults.

And pip, I believe the acoustic remains to be used as I mentioned.

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/8408-new-ggg/page__pid__72355#entry72355

This topic is for reference that dst is abusing the follow me spell or whatever you call it.

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1290038580' post='72364']
I will rephrase the question then; What [i]do you think[/i] the intended use for acoustic remains is?
[/quote]

Is it used for stalking people? You know stalking people in game and in rl are kinda the same meaning... hehe

Well...

You do realise this sounds very fishy since you made a specific comment in the last log of the new GGG, which Fenrir was known of using?

Assuming you are Fenrir's alt, this will be open alt abuse, and from what I gathered you are not able to say that you didn't invite this behaviour at all either.

If I'm wrong fine, but I'm just stating this as an observer.

Whether I am Fenrir or not is neither here nor there. This isn't about that. It's about her continual harassment of me as a player.

I have done nothing to deserve anything resembling this sort of behaviour from her. If I did, please show me. She has gone past any normal means to single me out, and constant pick apart, and harass me for any little thing. It is pathetic.

Edit: Also, the log that she posted in the The New GGG? topic was called upon by her with her acoustic remains. This conversation happened at the bottom of the Archives, in a VERY seldom travelled room. She purposely followed me, and used her spell to find out what we were saying. It's her own darn fault for find a slight against her name.

Edited November 18, 201015 yr by Vicarious

be prepared to answer what ever you say in MD, its not private, if you are ashamed of saying something. its simple. Dont say it..

or at least dont come on MD when youve been drinking

anyone who can use acoustic remains has deserved the privilage somewhere along the line, i dont see what she is doing wrong. MD's own lil spy, checking out transfers for WP and items, and looking closely at the interaction of players. Good job if you ask me, if you dont do anything wrong/suspicious what have you got to fear?

I agree with both Peace and Shadowseeker when they say about alt abuse. I recently recieved a message from you asking for an avatar, i was going to search and help you find one as i didnt know who you were and let you explain to me what your character was like, when i recieved an answer it seemed a little fishy at the time... im glad i know you are seigheart/fenrir's alt now it Does make me feel differently about "helping" you whether or not you need "help".

i was pretty annoyed actually.

I have no idea what you are actually annoyed with. I never once hid the fact that I am Seig. Intact, i dunno why people didn't know. I posted quite a bit.

I'm not going to comment on the trial request but I will comment on the alt abuse charge that has been leveled against Vicarious/Seigheart/Fenrir.

People like to throw the alt abuse charge around and they seem to think that it is an appropriate way to silence something/someone. When you use that term, bring all your evidence forward (in a separate topic) or get the "f" out. I'm sick and tired of people who decide to censor someone because of their "knowledge" of someone being an alt. There were accusations leveled against Seigheart months ago that no one was willing to bring before the court (or Mur) so obviously there was no proof or at least not enough that they were willing to risk their reputation if they brought up false charges.

And just so my point is clear: Is any game character allowed to start proceedings in the court or is it only limited to your first character? By which I mean, are alts also protected by the laws of the game or are we elitist in the game laws, that only first characters are protected?

[size="1"](I won't hijack this thread but if anyone wishes to discuss one noticeable failing with the current alt rules, feel free to contact me or open a thread)[/size]

Laphers, I believe the alt abuse is referring to the fact that Fenrir had almost the exact same case against dst, and it is a possibility that he set up the training grounds deliberately to provoke dst and have the advantage of multiple complaints. Now, I'm not saying that's true, simply a possibility to keep in mind.

As for earlier accusations, they may have been made, but you cannot take someone to court for simply having an alt, so why would you think people would have reason to take Seigheart to court earlier?

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1290056502' post='72399']
As for earlier accusations, they may have been made, but you cannot take someone to court for simply having an alt, so why would you think people would have reason to take Seigheart to court earlier?
[/quote]

The word accusation implies broken game rules/laws. So it follows that if one accuses but does not prosecute they can poison the community against the character. The character has no recourse except to accuse of slander and harassment to clear their own name and restore their place in society. To be accused of alt abuse but not prosecuted means that a(n innocent until proven guilty) character can do nothing except show how s/he has been targeted.

Then why didn't you jump in to help when he was being accused?

OK off topic lets bring this back. The accusation is that seigheart is accusing dst for harassment as well as some other claims. There should be no more on this thread unless DST would like to make a counter claim as part of the same case.

If you choose to file a claim of alt abuse please enter it in a separate thread. If mur chooses to address both or DST plans to take the counter claim in the other thread that's all good and legal.

I'm not taking sides im simply explaining the process.

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1290052965' post='72395']
I have no idea what you are actually annoyed with. I never once hid the fact that I am Seig. Intact, i dunno why people didn't know. I posted quite a bit.
[/quote]

Actually, you have never said you were seig, so i can see why he is annoyed since its has never been mentioned

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1290048347' post='72386']
Whether I am Fenrir or not is neither here nor there. This isn't about that. It's about her continual harassment of me as a player.I have done nothing to deserve anything resembling this sort of behaviour from her. If I did, please show me. She has gone past any normal means to single me out, and constant pick apart, and harass me for any little thing. It is pathetic.Edit: Also, the log that she posted in the The New GGG? topic was called upon by her with her acoustic remains. This conversation happened at the bottom of the Archives, in a VERY seldom travelled room. She purposely followed me, and used her spell to find out what we were saying. It's her own darn fault for find a slight against her name.
[/quote]

Actually it would seem to matter quite a lot, Becuase if you were indeed him (and this is ofc theotical) then you have already had one trial against her, and you got punishment for that because you didnt give enough evidence.

Have you actually seen dst ingame? she goes around breaking up ANY and all training groups, look at the ones she found in the maze, she is continually looking for them, im not entirely surprised she found you since thats a fairly busy route through the archvies since its so much quicker.

Since i know Seigheart = Fenrir i will adress you as i know you

Fenrir this sounds like a payback to me ...quit while you still have time ..if your actions would be in plain sight and NOT hidden and miscievous then you would have nothing to worrie about...she has the right to be in the same place as you ..she do tends to walk a lot in MD ... you can;t blame her for that ..it;s not stalking.

Edited November 18, 201015 yr by Indyra

@Chwett: Braking training groups isn't the issue. The way she talks is, insulting, etc.


Yes, Fenrir had a similar case against dst, but I believe that Seigheart (as a character, even if he is Fenrir's alt) never did anything to provoke this, except receiving some items from Fenrir (if he was an alt, this would be alt abuse, but I clearly remember at least 3-4 cases with much greater item abuse with alts, and I don't think any of them were punished)...


So it comes to this: It's personal (RL personal), which means that it has no place in MD...


I've witnessed more than one occasion of dst insulting Seigheart, ruining his RP, calling him Fenrir without showing proof,etc. I will be willing to testify.



P.S. There is a possibility that Seigheart actually talked to Fenrir and told him that dst is bugging him and thus heard the std name... Or maybe from other people/ on other occasion... This doesn't prove anything.





I'm sick and tired of people harassing new players just because they can... Or because they are delusional. And you wonder why people don't stay in MD?

Also as a sidenote, something I just read up on:

"Any repeat of the same offence by Fenrir or any alt of Fenrir will result in imprisonment of all his accounts."

So if this is Fenrir's alt, this will get messy.

Otherwise, I can't judge the situation well, but from the general way the two of them behave (both Seig and dst), I don't think that Seig didn't invite anything at all. If he truly did not, my bad, but I'm curious if any of the sides have proof regarding this. We haven't seen any yet at least, the only solid proof I saw included Seig using an insulting name for dst.

i thought ther was an unwritten rule or something which states you shouldnt create more forum accounts, and that the forum accounts are not really for alts, only your main character

If this is not the case i shall create an alt to mark all my arguments up, and all arguments against my point of view down (i have only one forum account and im NOT going to do this its just stating a fact)

im sorry for going off topic, and i dont think im slandering im just saying that i dont think its right to have more then one forum account, just for the sake of it.

Hi Asterdai,

You are assuming that Seigheart is Fenrir, and has made a new forum account to represent the new game character. If he is, then a rule is broken. However, we don't know that. We haven't seen anything posted on the forum as proof yet. The only thing I have seen that has been alluded to as proof is the rewording of the name "DST" into the insulting name of "STD". But making this transition is hardly something difficult that only a person would ever be able to come up with, or proof that anyone saying this must be that person. I would not consider this proof, it is simply an insult and nothing more.

As I have a knack for law, I find these proceedings interesting and I await to see where this will lead to.

In service,
Esmaralda

This is interesting I have to agree. It seems as though neither player as definitive proof of much. We are missing chat logs and only one witness has stepped forward. Though a witness is worth nothing as any case requires physical evidence to be considered. That shouldn't be hard considering the chat in MD. DST has however unwittingly presented evidence. When she looked back in the chat she found the chat log shown below (I saved it ):

[17/11/10 20:12] Manda:waiting
[17/11/10 20:13] Seigheart:I am as well. *grins*
[17/11/10 20:13] Seigheart:This place is inaccesible by any means.
[17/11/10 20:13] Seigheart:But the GoE
[17/11/10 20:14] Manda:well if someone have the admin key can enter too
[17/11/10 20:14] Seigheart:Ahh, well that is true.
[17/11/10 20:14] Seigheart:So what happened in the Basement?
[17/11/10 20:14] Seigheart:How did dst find us?
[17/11/10 20:14] Seigheart:Someone must have told her.
[17/11/10 20:14] Manda:and see marrind sit in the chair with the empty book
[17/11/10 20:15] Manda:no the Dst have some spells maybe
[17/11/10 20:15] Manda:or someone tell but dont know
[17/11/10 20:15] Seigheart:Well, we shall see if she follows us here.
[17/11/10 20:15] Manda:i like her but dont talk in a long long time
[17/11/10 20:15] Seigheart:I despise her.
[17/11/10 20:16] Manda:maybe we need to logo out for 20 min and wait untill our foot prints vanish
[17/11/10 20:16] Seigheart:Not here.
[17/11/10 20:16] Seigheart:Footprints dont matter here.
[17/11/10 20:16] Manda:in games yes but = DST i want to have one in my home jjeje
[17/11/10 20:17] Manda:mmmm maybe
[17/11/10 20:17] Seigheart:I dunno what you mean, what's a dst?
[17/11/10 20:17] :Manda Pm Muahahha
[17/11/10 20:18] Seigheart:Wow. LOL
[17/11/10 20:18] Seigheart:Call her std. *grins*
[17/11/10 20:20] Manda:mmm std jeje
[17/11/10 20:21] Manda:hit me
[17/11/10 20:21] Seigheart:Im set btw.
[17/11/10 20:35] Seigheart:Message me when more people get here. I'm going to go hunting.
[17/11/10 21:01] Ravenstrider: (Rit set)
[17/11/10 21:24] Princ Rhaegar:it's my first time here actually
[17/11/10 21:24] Princ Rhaegar:setting rit in a sec
[17/11/10 21:24] Princ Rhaegar:and going idle
[17/11/10 21:29] moephus:set
[17/11/10 21:56] Seigheart:Set
[17/11/10 21:56] Seigheart:Moephus, your tree is hurt.
[17/11/10 21:57] Seigheart:Hello everyone.
[17/11/10 21:57] everyone:Hello
[17/11/10 21:58] Seigheart:This is a GGG Training Site, please do not attack without using the proper ggg attacks
[17/11/10 22:03] everyone:Set.
[17/11/10 22:45] :Esmaralda greets everyone
[17/11/10 22:45] Esmaralda:set
[17/11/10 22:45] :Ravenstrider nods.
[17/11/10 23:15] *dst*:chat
[17/11/10 23:15] :[Spell] Vorbeste

Which shows negative comments against dst after her arrival. The use of acoustic remains is hear at least justified by the earlier comments. However Feniar being an alt of Seigheart is not because of the simple point by Esmeralda that if you put two and two together it would take half a mind to make the association.

Unless Seigheart shows some hard evidence of repeated abuse this will not make it to trial. Its good to keep your cards hidden but you have to give a few away in order to make it to the court room.

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1290035550' post='72358']
Therefore, I would like to charge dst with these accusations, I will submit my proof, and witnesses to the proper authority when asked to. I would also like to request that the Judge to be a Neutral party.
[/quote]
Don't ever write something like that. I have no idea why people don't feel like publishing proof when making accusations publicly, but even if there is a valid reason for it, know that nobody will ever believe you have proof when you are this unwilling to post it. A near-acceptable statement would have been 'I have sent my proof to Mur/Chewett.' - I'm including Chewy here because I guess he's more likely to respond soon and he is already responsible for the forum. If he's not able to deal with judging sensitive evidence, he wouldn't be able to run a forum either. - I'm not saying Mur or Chewett is going to like having to deal with it, but if you lied about having proof, we'll have a verdict on that before the topic is two pages long. Which is a ridiculous length for a topic without proof.