The Free Knowledge Movement

[Ravenstrider]

Since we all know knowledge of the realm obtained in one way or the other is generally jealously kept, I suggest a weekly discussion event on various topics, where those who have researched can share their conclusions and discuss various mysteries of the realm.

The reward for this would be expanding the boundaries of ourselves and learning more, because even the ignorant can teach you something from time to time.

I was thinking that this event should have 5 different locations depending on the topic discussed, to add to the feel of it.

Your opinions and suggestions, please.

I was thinking that it would be good if the logs of these conversations could be made public on the forums.


For those too lazy to read the whole thing, a clarification:

Uh, the topic title is misleading... I'm rubbish at naming things. This was mainly what I had in mind... Discussions about ideas and personal viewpoints on things... Maybe Free Thought Movement would be more appropriate as a name...

Not giving knowledge as in: "Here, this is what I know", but more: Here is my viewpoint on this, here is an idea about a direction concerning that, etc. Something that would maybe cause people to step back and reexamine their own personal research... One man can only do so much without someone to discuss things with...


And yes, I know this would be very hard to maintain, and organize... This is why I opened the topic, to see how people would react to it and would they be willing to participate...

And once again, I wasn't thinking about talking about sensitive information like land weapons... But something like: Why don't some people need food to survive in MD and why do some do? (I'm quite tired atm, so I can't think of anything better) And no, the discussions wouldn't be limited to MD, they could go in various directions...

Edited November 20, 2010 by Ravenstrider

[Malaikat Maut]

[quote name='Ravenstrider' timestamp='1290185127' post='72581']
I was thinking that it would be good if the logs of these conversations could be made public on the forums.
[/quote]
So that the lazy or perhaps less interested among us may benefit from the work of others?

By my understanding, the point has always been to reward the few who will peel back the layers of this fantastic and mysterious world while still providing enjoyment for those among us who wish merely to marvel at the unique and ingenious battle system.

Those who currently find interest in research and discovery need no scheduled events or static locations from which to share their findings, and those with limited or no interest are frankly undeserving of the wonders of said discoveries. Myself included for the time being.

In short, I think this is a bad idea, and one that stands in opposition to several game/world conventions, no spoilers being chief among them. Really though it just promotes laziness in some while providing no further motivation for those who are already doing the research.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Malaikat Maut' timestamp='1290186532' post='72583']
So that the lazy or perhaps less interested among us may benefit from the work of others? By my understanding, the point has always been to reward the few who will peel back the layers of this fantastic and mysterious world while still providing enjoyment for those among us who wish merely to marvel at the unique and ingenious battle system. Those who currently find interest in research and discovery need no scheduled events or static locations from which to share their findings, and those with limited or no interest are frankly undeserving of the wonders of said discoveries. Myself included for the time being. In short, I think this is a bad idea, and one that stands in opposition to several game/world conventions, no spoilers being chief among them. Really though it just promotes laziness in some while providing no further motivation for those who are already doing the research.
[/quote]

I agree fully with Malaikat, MD is not a place where all the secrets should be listed, mur has many times said that everyone will discover things for themselves, but that it is not what is found, but the discoveries made on the road to what you are looking for.

[Ravenstrider]

One of the reasons I proposed this is the lack of basic knowledge on some things people seem to suffer from. I was thinking that it could be limited to general things and people who are willing discussing them.

Principles, general nature of the lands and the direction they should develop, maybe some parts of the AL... Something that would help spread the thirst for knowledge more than give it away freely...

Do you think this is too much of a spoiler as well? Maybe have a discussion on The Light Principle for one of these sessions...


Another reason is my eagerness to see how other people see some of the things in the realm I've thought about and built a somewhat blurry and intuitive image of.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Ravenstrider

[Ivorak]

It all comes down to spoilers. If spoilers could be avoided, I would be in favor.

For example, I think it would be helpful as a newcomer to know about the constant day. There are many small, but important, details about these lands that I forget from time to time.

Now, the above example would only help those who showed up unless, of course, logs were taken or summaries written.

Also, why limit it to those topics that are specifically MD? I think it is possible to avoid anachronisms and out of character chatter if we discuss such fields as philosophy, mathematics, etc. In some cases, these discussions could be tied to MD with a little planning.

As for a location, I would suggest the Underway Cavern. Long ago, this location was proposed for the Phrontistery ("A Thinking Place") as it is almost central in MD but removed from the noise and bustle of the other central scenes.

[Malaikat Maut]

I see value in players fostering or incenting a thirst for knowledge in other individual, and Peace and I had regularly made that a focus in our roleplays together when I was more active in game. If the goal of your movement is to excite people about the mysteries within the world of MagicDuel then I would certainly agree with it. I just don't believe that holding public research sessions or discussions on matters that are secret (and therefore valuable to some) is the way to go about it.

To me it has to be something more intimate...it simply comes down to good RP. I'd add to Ivorak's statements that I feel it has to do with players (mostly veterans) maintaining the proper setting for their "characters". Now I know that not everyone roleplays in the absolute sense of the word, but we are all here in the same game world, in the same setting so to speak. It's important to keep that frame of reference as you interact with others around you, particularly new players. Put yourself in your character's shoes. This land is strange, and it's curious how we all got here in the first place...

Just discussing some of these things with a new player may pique their interest and raise the awareness that things here are not what they seem.

[Kafuuka]

There's the archives, the MD university, the MD newspaper... everything that was discussed there is freely available and thus sets a precedent for spoilers and research. They're also inactive long enough to declare them legally dead by now, which shows how difficult it is to maintain this kind of projects. I'd like it if someone revived one or made a new one either way, but I do think the past is a stern warning concerning feasability.

I also personally highly doubt it is possible to spoil everything there is in MD or that spoilers about the inner workings about principles are even going to be understood by people to lazy to research them themselves. I don't believe you can explain advanced things without your pupil first understanding the absolute basics. This is pure conjecture on my part, but seems plausible to me.

[Yrthilian]

Well i like the idea of sharing but to be honest that is more difficult than you would believe
this type of project is very difficult to maintain. It has been tried many times and so far no
real success.

I would more like to see discussion of topic rather then a knowledge share.
Talks on what people see things as this is more of a chat to discuse posiableaties of something
kind of like a think tank type of thing with the general groups.

This sort of thing i think would more get people into the idea of research and doing it as a group

[Ravenstrider]

@yrth: Uh, the topic title is misleading... I'm rubbish at naming things. This was mainly what I had in mind... Discussions about ideas and personal viewpoints on things... Maybe Free Thought Movement would be more appropriate as a name...

Not giving knowledge as in: "Here, this is what I know", but more: Here is my viewpoint on this, here is an idea about a direction concerning that, etc. Something that would maybe cause people to step back and reexamine their own personal research... One man can only do so much without someone to discuss things with...


And yes, I know this would be very hard to maintain, and organize... This is why I opened the topic, to see how people would react to it and would they be willing to participate...

And once again, I wasn't thinking about talking about sensitive information like land weapons... But something like: Why don't some people need food to survive in MD and why do some do? (I'm quite tired atm, so I can't think of anything better) And no, the discussions wouldn't be limited to MD, they could go in various directions...

[Novato]

I don't like your ideia in general, but I agree that the limit between spoiler or a Tip is very vague.

There are mp5 that don't know about the free credits, I saw it. If the mp3 and mp4 are learnning stages, you can ask what they teach. I think that this details should be more discussed.

[Pipstickz]

While I am of the opinion that it would be good for [b]some[/b] information to come to light, those who have it will most likely not be willing to share. That's just how it is, I s'pose.

[Shadowseeker]

Not to sound arrogant, but in terms of information some kind of things are better off not to be told...even if told, sometimes they don't understand, and if told, you may also lead them in a cfertain direction.

Each person's mindset when approaching an answer is differently, especially with this kind of stuff. If you spoonfeed answers, you also destroy the own choice that person would have done. If that person does not accept it, almost no harm done, but it can still influence.

It's like people come up with several ways to make the same thing happen, but because you told them one way, YOUR way, most will stop searching, and the other methods get lost.

[Peace]

Just my two cents here.

What if this could be something like the lectures the MD University did when I started playing, around October '08?

You could have people who are old enough in MD that know what can be considered a spoiler and what not. As for topics? Well, this doesn't hae to be entirely on deep mechanics such as Inner Magic, Shades, Angiens (though you can use what is already known to us from what is already there and provide the newcomers an insight of what lies in the surface and then let them do the rest by their own.) You could teach about basic fighting methods, lore, and whatever else is there that all us needed to know on the beginning of our journeys here.

Learning should be a priviledge to all mind power levels. And I personally started learning after a few people pointed out the right way to me.

[Jubaris]

thumbs up for what Peace said.

people, it's like you would also ban all religions just cause some people might believe in something that might not be true

in Ancient Greeks you had philosophy schools, each having it's special mindset, here people could hear our Raven's mindset, somewhere else let's say Shadowseeker's mindset and such, and believe what they want to believe in, or take into consideration.

[Laphers]

I'm a big believer in sharing knowledge in RL but in the case of the game, and this suggestion, I think it will make the game less entertaining. However, I do think that there can be use in sharing questions. People can come together and share things that they have observed. (Has anyone noticed that there is something different in the Park after solving the Berzerker's Way Puzzle?) By phrasing your question correctly you can not give a spoiler but can encourage people to investigate the question. If people wish to share ideas, they can discuss theories (preferably off the beaten track and/or ensuring that spoilers are removed). If spoilers must be included in the discussion, it can be taken to pm.

[Zelath]

I think its a good idea. As a newbie im trying to get into the game, and find ways to seek more knowledge and insights. But at times its annoyingly hard. I mean i spent time reading archives, following chats and exploring lands and gameplay. Still not sure what questions to ask, and how to seek deeper about the theories i got.
Some lecture or hearing how elder players reason i think would clear the air a lot for me, and set me with questions and a way to move on with them. And get me more into the mindset to gain more from experiencing the game.
It feels a bit sad as well that the entries both in the archives and adventure log seems to end att same time.. What happned then? Perheps the Legend Spekers should become the Legend Seekers?

[awiiya]

Your arguments are fair, but I have a quibble. I don't think that veterans who have spent years learning and exploring should share their knowledge freely. For one, newbies would misinterpret it without the proper background, and for another it would be devalued. That which is given is forgotten, while that which is built lasts forever.

The solution to the problem of hopeless groping might rest more in an ingame location which people can come and speak about anything and everything, under the watchful eyes of those of us who have spent far too much time sitting around thinking up theories.

I don't wish to name a specific location, because I think that organically one will be chosen without effort, but I do welcome any people to stop by me and talk. If I'm around, I will respond.

In short: rather than a lecture, there should be an eternal conversation.

Awi

Edited November 21, 2010 by awiiya