Forgive me for the off-topic post, but I believe Kafuuka means to refer to the Straw Man fallacy.

@ Tipu:

Thank you very much for the support and especially the time invested to help me. But don't worry this was inevitable, it should have happened long ago. And please forgive those people who claim I used this trial to get out of my punishment. I cant even believe how stupid they think I must be. Only a complete fool would do such a thing in public and not in a private email to Mur. And in case people are wondering yes I did send an email to Mur explaining my situation and tried to change the punishment. But guess what I realized in those emails that I completely misunderstood the game from day1 and with that lost my place to live in MD. I made the trial in hopes to regain a sense of what MD is, or better said in hopes to clarify that I did understand it, or at least try to change it back to what I believed it was. I failed and now I understand what I didn't before.

What was written in the drach lair incident announcement took the most important thing for me in MD. And that was a world I could understand and especially by representing a land like Marind Bell believe in. So my only option left was to make this trial about life and death not only to make sure that it will be taken seriously by higher ups, but most of all to get back my believe into what I have been working for the whole time in Marind Bell.

At any rate its over now and my character failed and died (just need to pass on kingship and actually die officially). And the only person to blame for that is myself because I failed to understand one of the most important parts of the game. I still hope that it will lead to a better presented rules and law system because it really hurt when I realized that it took me over 2 years and a crime to understand how stuff really worked in the game.

As much as i am sorry it went this way, i am sorry but i can't allow you to post in this "martyr" stance without replying to you..

[b]What was it that you discovered after two years of md? That there are announced rules that _are_ applied? Or that even ancient players get punished if they behave like careless noobs?[/b]

don't bother to reply, it was rethorical. All I had to say on this matter was said already.
If any of you questions the influence of a rule, please from now on debate it before you break it. I am always open to any constructive criticism, regardless what you may think.

Just because I gotta say it, the rule applied was a rule in a forum post, not in the announcements. (thats what I gathered from all the posts in the other topic about this to begin with.)

The ruling system is not noticed or complete. It is fairly easy for a noob to get banned without knowing he/she even broke a rule. Because the rules are and never were stated clearly in the game. This applies to several "questionable" events that have taken place where several people got punished for something that was "questionable". Now yes this instance is more definative than some of those in the past. What I mean is this is a precise issue not a he said she said political nonsense broken rule.

In the end the only rules that exist are the ones that one person makes up. Please be sure to let the future players know to read the 2000+ announcements and the 60000+ forum posts in order to enjoy a happy lifestyle in the game without cause or concern of possibly breaking a rule.

Oh yeah and btw what is this "under the radar" thing? That would imply that I was going into my cave without letting anybody know after you closed it right? I can assure you alot of people knew that cause I posted in the mood panel things like "chillin in my cave" etc... So I was very public about it... Not hiding it..

Edited December 1, 201015 yr by smartalekrj

@RJ: if you still want to continue this , please allow me to grasp the straw in you eye. Perhaps your vision will be better after.

[quote]the rule applied was a rule in a forum post, not in the announcements[/quote] and [quote]Please be sure to let the future players know to read the 2000+ announcements and the 60000+ forum posts in order to enjoy a happy lifestyle in the game without cause or concern of possibly breaking a rule.[/quote]

are you sure it wasn;t in the 2000 announcements and you just missed it ? or maybe it was in the 6000 forum posts ? Oh look the forum has a search button! sorry. you were ironic and i couldn;t help myself.

Now RJ: both you and Lifeline aren;t new players. End of story. You both know how things work, no excuse here. The forum is part of MD , and very official , you take your own chances for not reading. No young players was punished for not knowing announcement #1876, you were because you were warned about your actions and yet you accepted the risk. You got caught, you got punishment, you do your punishment, end of story.

[quote]The ruling system is not noticed or complete[/quote] no ruling system is definite and complete, it develops along with the society that creates it, and about the noticed part..i;m quite sure you don't know the penalty for LAW nr x from 1934 in your own country, etc but if you get caught for it you still have to pay for it.

[quote]So I was very public about it... [/quote] this ain;t the issue here ...as the punishment was given for a totally different thing.

Edited December 1, 201015 yr by Indyra

I've been reading this thing since the whole stuff started, and honestly, when I first heard that there was a training ground set up in the Drachorn Lair, I was like: WTF? I'm a forum regular and I read new stuff that come up virtually daily, hence I know that the drachorn cave was closed ever since the drachorn lair incident. However, I am under the believe that the forum, while a good place to go for every player, is not a mandatory part of the game - at least not as far as I know.

So, with the repeatedly brought up argument of rule stated in the forum only, as well as the mention on the sheer amount of announcements and forum posts, I tried to emulate the searches my self. Here's the results:

1. Announcements.
Honestly, there's not that many announcements. The number might seem big, but it's not that hard to go through, and you need to as they are official announcements anyways. If someone decides it's not worth it to read them, well it's their own risk. For new players who might not have got enough time to go through all of them, I don't think they're going to get punished severely anyways, and for older players, well they have enough time to read them..
Having said that, I tried searching "drachorn", a topic I feel RJ should have searched through when he came back as it directly concerns him.

Here's the results :
[quote]Wind Dragon is now available in Wish shop. It unlocks after 6 spent wishpoints and requires 600 active days and a level 1 Golemus Drachorn.[/quote]
[quote]
Last minute update Players with over 100 active days and more than 1drachorn will lose from now one 1 active day for each fight against a ritual with at least one aramor. Beware, you could get negative active days this way and that would mean your account will get unregistered and you will have to start allover again.

(April fools!!!! , you realy believed it? cmon!)[/quote]
[quote]
Drachorn Cave closed for undefined time. It might get opend later or integrated somehow with a quest but for now it stays closed. (@Smartalekrj, drachs were supposed to be used as rewards for smart quests , not for who pays more.)[/quote]
Others results either happens after (because) of this whole issue, or are much older. Turns out that newest announcement on the cave is due to the previous drach convo, and I figured RJ would know about this one since his name was in there after all.. However, none of the decision from the Manda issue is there.

2. Forum
Now, the last Manda case is here, as well as the announcement that the cave is closed. I tried searching "drachorn" and came up with 97 results (shown as topics). Manda's issue was titled "I Am Banned!". To be fair, that's not a very interesting title. Some people might read it (like I did), but I'm not personally gonna expect someone who was browsing for stuff about drachorn to be overly interested on that topic. After all, someone got banned, what does it have to do with me? Some part of me argued that since it came up in the search for 'drachorn', if RJ had seen it he should've read it.. but honestly, there's lots of way a drach could appear inside that topic, it could've been a trade fraud with a drach, for example. I'm not 100% sure if I would've read it if I were in RJ's shoes.
Of course, it is [b]EASY[/b] to find the topic/post if he had known about it (e.g, search: topics by Manda). But the whole argument is he didn't know it in the first place.

Now since I already went this far, I also went through the trouble of rereading the Manda topic. Now it appears that at the time, the majority , were actually of the opinion that entering the cave itself was not a crime. Only when Mur finally posted near the end that the cave was closed regardless of access did the issue was clear.
[spoiler][quote name='Curiose']
Alrighty, I've been wondering about this, myself.

There are areas forbidden to normal players who are not admins? And if so, how come?[/quote]
[quote name='dst']
There are no forbidden places for normal players. There are just places that not everyone can access them. It's not like you can go in a place but you're not allowed to. You either have access or not.

Manda picked something somewhere (lately strange things happened in MD - remember the screwed battles?) that allowed him to enter drachorn's layer. Besides, he was not punished for GOING in there. He was punished for NOT reporting the fact he had access KNOWING that place can't be entered by anyone and for abusing the bug again without reporting it.

Ignorance is not bliss in this game. Same is stupidity. You pay for both! [/quote]

[quote name='pipstickz']Manda was punished for taking draches and giving them away, not going into the areas themselves. [/quote][/spoiler]

Now I am not really fond of the fact that the drachorn cave is used as a training ground, but I do not find RJ's arguments baseless either.

am i the only one careful about wording? all punishments i gave were for announced matters, not even for the forum extra clarifications. Of course the side punishments were given for unannounced matters because i don't plan to announce each warning and individual situation on the public announcements. Manda knew very well what his situation is, smart knew it very well too since its about his former role, and lifeline could use such excuse but his punishment was based on the announced part. .. not to mention that a two years old player that happens to be a king has basically no excuse for not caring about what is going on. It is not about not knowing, it is about refusing to care because it favored them not to care, big big difference.

Really now, who said I dont care? Obviously i cared about something in the realm enough to want to help do something about it. Not sit and watch how events will play out like you do... If anything this "event" shows that I do care. Hardly a point worth missing. There is no "refusing" or "favoring" about it.

@Indrya: The punishment given was completely based off the fact that I had access to my cave. There is no other point to it. If I didn't have access to my cave, then this wouldn't be an issue.

Edited December 1, 201015 yr by smartalekrj

[quote name='smartalekrj' timestamp='1291209794' post='73967']
Really now, who said I dont care? Obviously i cared about something in the realm enough to want to help do something about it. Not sit and watch how events will play out like you do... If anything this "event" shows that I do care. Hardly a point worth missing. There is no "refusing" or "favoring" about it.

@Indrya: The punishment given was completely based off the fact that I had access to [b]my[/b] cave. There is no other point to it. If I didn't have access to [b]my[/b] cave, then this wouldn't be an issue.
[/quote]

Sorry to point this out for you.

The cave is not yours. It belongs to Golemus. You just happened due to your quest to enter it, 'mastered' it of sorts, thus you became the Drachorn Master. But still, that does not say the cave belongs to [b]you[/b].

Being attached to certain locations of MD is acceptable, as long as it fits into a reasonable story. Claiming locations by our own, is not. Alche's Statue was actually Alche's Statue. Plains of Liberty were called after Liberty and so on. If the cave was yours, it would be called RJ's Drachorn Lair.

At least, this is how I see it.

Now... something happened that was against the rules, people were exposed and punished about it. I still wonder why this bickering keeps going on. Move on you guys. Learn to win but learn to lose too.

shouldn't this topic be closed. Punishments have been given by the council. Thats our version of the supreme court. Decision is final and can not be re-appealed.

Gotta figure, plus nobody new has posted in a couple days

~closed~