Myth

Edited in: Multiple, not infinite. And multiple can be adjusted to reflect MD's population at the time. Perhaps even coded to set its own values in accordance to the number of current active gatherers. And when multiple depleters with no purpose arise, what happens? Say MD gets an influx of people, and several of them decide to take care of everything. Several = different time zones. They each grab a Herbs Basket (since so many are available) and get to work, keeping everything at 0 all the time. The situation is quite possible. What does one do if they want to get herbs but hit this scenario? 1. Wait for resources to reach 1 and quickly run to deplete themselves? Depleters making depleters... 2. Prevent them from getting the tools? Sounds interesting.. would require some planning, the involvement of a few players with a bit of power - move locks, teleports and so on - so that there would be enough time to get all the tools on other players; players they could trust, because it won't help if they can be bought = give them a basket, see how they sell it to a depleter. Sounds like a resource war to me. May have some potential, can be fought on both fronts. However, I wonder how long it'll take for such a group (protective) to form, as well as how long they could keep it up. --- First of all, the number of players with this anti-depletion resolution needs to be high enough to ensure that not even one basket reaches the other faction, since 1 is enough to continue keeping every scene at 0 --- Their time zones need to be diverse for obvious reasons --- Their cooperation and planning need to be flawless (both between different and similar time zones) --- Their schedules need to collide (main reason why their number needs to be high is because this schedule collision rarely happens) --- Rinse and repeat --- Hope that depleters don't get reinforcements How many of those conditions can be simultaneously sustained for a prolonged period of time? Edited in: I suppose I could have high expectations in this regard from a group bent on keeping resources at the optimum performance level, but it's still not a reliable solution, considering how many things need to go right, all of which are susceptible to unexpected interruptions by RL. Also, I'm not the one finding stones depleted, I'm the one hauling them, this week. (ends today) :P And I can sincerely say that, were I on the other side of the barricade, I'd hate myself terribly. :D

Not a smaller cool down. I figured it could store multiple so called perpetrators it would activate for. If it's to use a cool down, then perhaps have separate instances of cool down for each target it stores? Duration doesn't even need to be too long. Folks would just have to learn when to use it, a.k.a. figure the patterns of depleters. :p

Notice that the first option was the very one you proposed. :p It's laid out that way = inability to collect from land, instead of inability to collect from scene because it's thought as a land tool. 1 day from an entire land does kind of sound overpowered. Whatever's overpowered can be reduced. :p So if you scrape off the jail option, what else is overpowered? :p It even gives you a fighting chance: collect and run before you get caught, lol.

It can't just be that the suggestions are overpowered... that's simple to solve, you reduce timers, casts, make it more difficult to obtain... there are many ways to nerf an overpowered ability. But that first suggestions was simply blown out of the water, as if the concept itself wasn't viable. At least, that's what it looked like to me.. As for the second suggestion, it's actually quite similar to what you had in mind (post 2), spiced up with a few details :-/ But how (if) it will be coded depends on feedback regarding the current situation. If it's ok or not. :P EDIT: First 2 paragraphs = a.k.a. if the suggestions have a faulty concept, by all means, discard them; but if they don't, if all they need are adjustments, put them on the table for people to agree or disagree with :p

Yay for photosynthesis :p

Whoaaa, hold on a bit. This was in no way directed only at you. :P I've seen the hours you're on to deplete, so I pretty much know that you're on it 5-9 hours before regen ticks. This is a generic observation made after I've hauled almost all of the Memory Stones this past week, through the method described above. Were I a Golemian, I could pretty much monopolize the stones. Same with MB and water. Because I have this advantage of being able to get there before (almost) everyone else. (coupled with the advantage of lots of spare time at work) (edited in: this may apply to a few people, but the point remains that the majority will be at a loss) 3 buckets: again, not directed at you. Anyone can own 3 buckets. Just get someone to send them all over to you (generic "you" :P) and you own the place. (again, if time zone) (edited in: however we already agree that time zone is an issue, so I'll stop on that) Shared tools I don't know how to "fix", when it comes to time zones. I guess they sort of have a patch by being returned at different hours according to the day it happens. I'm just trying to think up a patch for resources here. I'm guessing the monopoly issue was addressed by implementing independent tools. Well, it's not exactly working. With Nad being dead, it's visible that water manages to reach higher levels than before. Couple that with days when you're too tired to go for it, and you get a lovely morning for collecting water. :P But other than that, you two own the business. One takes care of it at night, the other in the morning. So, hear me out a bit. Everything has an opposite, right? A counter? Combat was built that way, or at least that was the intention; the land was thought in this manner, if I understood it correctly. (mirrors and stuff) Well, resources don't have this counter. Do what in game, specifically? At this point, depletion can at best be delayed, as was pointed out to me by somebody. Depleters have hauled a lot; they gained power. What am I (generic I) going to do to these players? Let's discuss options here. 1. Ask them nicely and hope for the best. --- works; all's well in the land --- doesn't work; move on to option 2 2. Keep them continuously move locked or locked in chaos (if I could afford it) and eventually get paid back tenfold or perhaps even killed over it? --- Of course I won't be doing that; I value being alive and able to do things; what's gonna protect me from my actions, all because I wanted to gain some stats, or resources for whatever purpose? Surely not protectors, as they're not exactly equipped for the task. Sooo... option 3? 3. Win some quests or donate to gain some coin and buy what I need. --- Well I (again, generic I) need stats. I like grinding stats, but there's nothing to grind unless I wake up at the right time. I can't do that because I live in Australia, I have a schedule, a job, a family to sustain - and the server time's in RO. But I enjoy MD, and would like a chance at it. Ah well... guess I'll try to find another game like this one. (might've went a bit too far with this particular example :P) 4. Make powerful friends and have them take care of my "problem"? --- I guess this could stir some activity, maybe even start a resource war or something. Out of the above, options 1 and 4 could be viable to a larger group of players, but not a majority. Options 2 and 3 are only available to few. Thinking about it a little more, not even my last suggestion would apply to a majority, since depleters could just keep everything at 2/3 and have the rest sit and watch, not collecting out of fear of being "punished". They'd have to ask land leaders for permission to collect below 2/3, and hope these leaders understand their situations and allow them to do so. You said you're fighting against depletion with no purpose. I'm guessing your purpose is fixing the fact that they're not balanced. You've even suggested such tools yourself above, a long time ago. What changed?

This has nothing to do with speed. If you just happen to be in an appropriate timezone, you'll manage to get up and deplete whatever your heart desires, as long as you have the tools to do so, which, if I may add, are plenty; including independent ones. You can be the king of grinders and still be beat to the point by someone who just happens to wake up just when resource regen ticks. I get it. People get strong. If they wish to deplete, they do so. If they're asked nicely, they might stop, but then again, they might not if they don't like you enough. So a counter measure is in order in these conditions, by my reasoning. The point where they become strong enough to deplete the realm in a few moves is the point where it gets unbalanced. "Hey look! 20 water! I'll just use these 3 buckets I have along with my huge stats to collect it all in 3 clicks! I'll do it in the morning, because I wake up exactly when resources just happen to replenish!" That might have taken years of grinding to achieve, but it shouldn't be possible. And if it's allowed to be possible, it NEEDS a counter measure. Bottom line to my "rant" (:p): time zone should NOT be a factor to someone's strength.

I am using them. Sometime I manage to get the bucket and am thrilled when I actually get to use it. Other times it's for naught. It's an attempts against depletion, not for it.

Attempt no. 2 :D You know how each land has these so called cleansers which help dispose of the unwanted? I'm thinking of an item with a set of rules applied to it. Basically, these items would only work if the rules scripted to them were broken. Example: - location has 15/15 Herbs - land X rules state no collecting after 2/3 has been reached - location gets brought down to 9/15 Herbs by player A - land item stores player A inside some database, basically activating for that player only, as well as for that day only - action is NOT automatic; items is activated, but would need to be used - player B (citizen of land X, guardian, if you wish) hunts down player A - player B finds player A and activates land item - player A suffers from one of the following effects (take your pick): --- inability to collect resource in question from land X for that day (magical effect = some barrier of sorts) --- jailed for 1 day, a few hours... whatever sounds fair (realistic effect = you get caught, you're brought to justice) - day ends = item database clears; player continues to carry out the sentence Have a few of these items for each land and you'd be promoting police work = some activity. :D Examples of general item rules: - items would be given by ruler to appointed citizens; - items would act the same as shared items, to ensure they don't get lost to inactive players; - some minimum loyalty filter would be required; - can only be used within the land they're protecting - not particularly viable, because of chat list lag; I'd make them useable everywhere; even this has its flaws, since rule breakers can hide in locations inaccessible to those protecting their own lands; at the very least, rule breaker would be discouraged to keep at it, since there aren't many of these locations close by, and the trip would involve the risk of getting caught Land rules would need to be set by ruler of the land, and they'd have to be acceptable. And of course, made public. Example: - general rule: no depletion allowed ---- exception: max resource = 1 - general rule: no gathering when below 2/3 of max (if a location has 14 max, 9.32 would act as that threshold; gathering when at 10 wouldn't qualify as rule breaking) - specific rule: players from lands we're at war with aren't allowed to gather - specific rule: player C isn't allowed to gather because [insert reasoning with strong arguments] (reasons subjected to being accepted or denied by some kind of neutral court) Any thoughts? I haven't been able to come up with a name for such an item :P

At about 12:00 today, a 20-30 minute mild rain took place. Quite possibly triggered by system, considering activity. Refills were quite low: - 0/5 became 1/5 - 1/8 became 2/8 - 0/10 became 2/10 - 0/15 became 2/15 - 0/20 became 3/20 - 0?/60 became 8/60

Round 1 has ended! Unfortunately, only 4 out of 6 took place in this round. There 2 null scores. I must make this clear: entirely null scores will not be considered when prizes will be distributed. [hr] Round 2 has begun! As before, Myth will be stationed at Meeting of the Roads. Give him a nudge if he's around but daydreaming. :P If that doesn't work, try Asthir - usually hangs around the Gazebo. Round 2 details are 2 posts up. (last post on the first page) [hr] Round 3 details - Double Twist! Once again, you have 2 options. This time, both come with bonus points! First of all, the following rules apply to this round: - Slider use isn't allowed - for you :P - Mythrandir will be the attacker, and will hit each of you with the ritual listed below (= Alliance status ***hint: affects number of rounds*** becomes irrelevant) - You need to devise and set up a defense to reach the goals listed below Secondly, due to the precise nature of this round, I'm taking the liberty of prolonging it by one week. Everything after round 3 has therefore been moved one week (+1 day, because Tranquility Day) into the future. :P (original dates are in the original post) Now... [log=Details]Location: - Meeting of the Roads, No Man's Land Profile information - will be updated when the round begins: - VE: not important - Attack: 763.50 - Defense: 484.99 - Power: 107.16 - Initiative: 172.59 - Luck: will be set to 0 - Slider used: 2% Changes brought to this section won't significantly alter goals, but they might, so keep an eye out for these updates. (daily stat gain can cause shifts in combat stat distribution) Creature information: - Slot 1: Unholy Priest, ID842038 - Martyr - Dying Targets (enemy) - Slot 2: Dark Archer, ID840124 - Weaken Defense - Dying Targets (enemy) - Slot 3: Water Guardian I, ID841586 - Heal - Weak Targets (friendly) - Slot 4: Aramor Warrior, ID840121 - Damage - Dying Targets (enemy) - Slot 5: Water Being II, ID841585 - Heal - Strong Targets (friendly) Goals: Option 1 - same twist as round 2: 1. Provide Mythrandir with 195 heat 2. Kill EXACTLY 3 (three) creatures in the ritual above (Goal number 2 yields 15 additional points for this round = 5 points added to final score) Option 2 - risky twist: 1. Provide Mythrandir with EXACTLY 420 heat 2. Kill EXACTLY 2 (two) creatures in the ritual above Warning: Option 2 is the definition of precision. No mistakes are tolerated. Either both goals are achieved, or no score is given. This option is awarded with 145 points. (100 max + 45 extra = 15 points added to final score) It is important that you check out stat updates if you're to go for the risky way.[/log] [hr] That being said, you have 1 week to get ready. Round 3 begins on Oct 10th and ends on Oct 25th, 00:00 server time.

Ok... theory: (:p) Person with skill damage: 10 stats at -100 Use CB. Result: 1 stat at -910, 9 stats at -10 = irrelevant, since negative stats are 0 anyway Use suggestion above. Result: 10 stats at +100 - very relevant to person in question :p I fail to see how those 2 results are similar :p

Doesn't CB take (almost) all stats and puts them on a random one = if it were to be used when in skill damage, wouldn't the user have a massive loss in one stat instead of what they had before?

It's possible all 4 lands can be involved, if members of lands with no capitols get distributed so that teams even out numerically. Edit: - player distributions would fall under game master directive - if technical (code) mechanics of TC revolve around a "citizenship" requirement - I have no idea if it works like that or not - this could be replaced by a "temporary land tag" requirement, so as to not have people switch lands

Provided depletion occurred as expected, water levels this morning (following a rain cast of unknown - to me - duration) were: - 0/10 became 6/10 - 0/20 became 6/20 - 0/60 became 12/60 Throwing % idea away. New theory: a threshold of X max water at which regeneration gets doubled. Comes in 3 steps: - 5-9 max water = normal regeneration - 10-[value?] max water = normal regeneration * 2 - [value?]-[value?] max water = normal regeneration * 4 This can't be tested between steps 2 and 3, since there are no in between max water values from 20 to 60. However, tests can be done by completely depleting areas with 5, 8, 10 and 20 water, calling rain, and observing said location. I anticipate regeneration of 3, 3, 6 and 6 for the mentioned values. (might be different for 8; range of normal regeneration could very well be <=5; no idea, not tested) EDIT 1: Raven's Peace was at 10/20 this morning. Was it completely depleted last night? EDIT 2: Marind's Roundabout was at 6/8 this morning. Was it completely depleted last night? EDIT 3: Fountain of Dark Vibrations was at 3/5. I'll assume it was completely depleted.

Only a day and a half remain until Round 1 ends. So far, 2 out of 6 have competed. Still waiting for Nad, Neno, Rophs and Wideberth. I'll be active: - tonight after 20:00 ST; - tomorrow, between 09:30 and 17:00 ST - sporadically; - tomorrow, after 21:00 ST Not competing yields a null score. Negative scores are much more difficult to gain since the system was reworked. If you don't see Myth, Asthir will surely be around. :p

This morning, Fenth Beach and Golem's Mill were both at 0 Water. I think there was only 1 cast of rain through the day.. in any case, Fenth Beach went up to 5, while Golem's Mill went to 12. I don't know how long the rain lasted, but that's giving me a % refill feeling. Edit: though the numbers don't exactly add up... that's a 25% refill for 1 scene, and 20% for another...

When did this get fixed? I'm now seeing correct stats added in combat while under burst effect.

Well that's rather unfortunate.. looks like I no longer have the actual log. Only notes on it. Here they are: Battle 1 *creatures arranged in ascending ID order Attacker - Asthazar Slot 1 - Barren Soul - ID 842635 Slot 2 - Barren Soul - ID 842636 Slot 3 - Barren Soul - ID 842637 Slot 4 - Water Being I - ID 842638 Slot 5 - Water Being I - ID 842639 Slot 6 - Water Being I - ID 842640 Defender - Sy Slot 1 - Barren Soul - ID 842629 Slot 2 - Barren Soul - ID 842630 Slot 3 - Barren Soul - ID 842631 Slot 4 - Water Being I - ID 842632 Slot 5 - Water Being I - ID 842633 Slot 6 - Water Being I - ID 842634 Action order by Attacker/Defender Slot (AS 1-6 / DS 1-6) AS1 - AS5 - AS4 - AS3 - AS2 - AS6 - DS1 - DS6 - DS5 - DS4 - DS2 - DS3 Action order by ID 842635 - 842639 - 842638 - 842637 - 842636 - 842640 - 842629 - 842634 - 842633 - 842632 - 842630 - 842631 Action order by ID order (1-12) 7 - 11 - 10 - 9 - 8 - 12 - 1 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 2 - 3 Action order by ID order (1-6) for each player 1 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 6 - 1 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 2 - 3 Battle 2 *same creatures *defender creatures rearranged in descending ID order Same result. Battle 3 *same creatures *attacker switched with defender *attacker creatures remained in descending ID order *defender creatures rearranged in an order I can't find a word for right now (1-3-5-2-4-6) Attacker - Sy Slot 1 - Water Being I - ID 842634 Slot 2 - Water Being I - ID 842633 Slot 3 - Water Being I - ID 842632 Slot 4 - Barren Soul - ID 842631 Slot 5 - Barren Soul - ID 842630 Slot 6 - Barren Soul - ID 842629 Defender - Asthazar Slot 1 - Barren Soul - ID 842635 Slot 4 - Water Being I - ID 842638 Slot 2 - Barren Soul - ID 842636 Slot 5 - Water Being I - ID 842639 Slot 3 - Barren Soul - ID 842637 Slot 6 - Water Being I - ID 842640 Action order by Attacker/Defender Slot (AS 1-6 / DS 1-6) AS6 - AS2 - AS3 - AS4 - AS5 - AS1 - DS1 - DS6 - DS4 - DS2 - DS3 - DS5 Action order by ID 842629 - 842633 - 842632 - 842631 - 842630 - 842634 - 842635 - 842640 - 842639 - 842638 - 842636 - 842637 Action order by ID order (1-12) 1 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 6 - 7 - 12 - 11 - 10 - 8 - 9 Action order by ID order (1-6) for each player 1 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 6 - 1 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 2 - 3 Yay! A match! But wait... Battle 4 *different players *different creatures *initiative changed to 12 creatures x 3 *creatures arranged in ascending order (semi for defender) Attacker - Mythrandir Slot 1 - Unholy Priest II - ID 836171 Slot 2 - Unholy Priest II - ID 836172 Slot 3 - Unholy Priest II - ID 836173 Slot 4 - Dark Archer - ID 840124 Slot 5 - Dark Archer - ID 840125 Slot 6 - Heretic Archer II - ID 842036 Defender - Sy Slot 1 - Dark Archer - ID 842290 Slot 2 - Dark Archer - ID 842462 Slot 3 - Dark Archer - ID 842463 Slot 4 - Unholy Priest - ID 823608 Slot 5 - Unholy Priest - ID 823636 Slot 6 - Unholy Priest - ID 823637 Action order by Attacker/Defender Slot (AS 1-6 / DS 1-6) AS1 - AS5 - AS4 - AS3 - AS2 - AS6 - DS4 - DS3 - DS2 - DS1 - DS5 - DS6 Action order by ID 836171 - 840125 - 840124 - 836173 - 836172 - 842036 - 823608 - 842463 - 842462 - 842290 - 823636 - 823637 Action order by ID order (1-12) 4 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - 9 - 1 - 12 - 11 - 10 - 2 - 3 Action order by ID order (1-6) for each player 1 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 6 - 1 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 2 - 3 Yay! Another match! [hr] However! That match changes when you distort the number of same initiative cases. For example: 9 x 2 init + 3 x 1 (or 0, can't remember) init. Attacker - (can't remember) Slot 1 - [something=2init] - ID 836171 Slot 2 - [something=2init] - ID 836172 Slot 3 - [something=2init] - ID 836173 Slot 4 - [something=0/1init] - ID 840124 Slot 5 - [something=0/1init] - ID 840125 Slot 6 - [something=0/1init] - ID 842036 Defender - (some alt, can't remember) Slot 1 - [something=2init] - ID 842290 Slot 2 - [something=2init] - ID 842462 Slot 3 - [something=2init] - ID 842463 Slot 4 - [something=2init] - ID 823608 Slot 5 - [something=2init] - ID 823636 Slot 6 - [something=2init] - ID 823637 Action order by Attacker/Defender Slot (AS 1-6 / DS 1-6) AS3 - DS1 - AS1 - AS2 - DS2 - DS3 - DS6 - DS5 - DS4 - AS6 - AS4 - AS5 Action order by ID 841667 - 840222 - 841127 - 841666 - 840221 - 840441 - 840608 - 840607 - 840443 - 842486 - 841317 - 82485 Action order by ID order (1-12) 9 - 1 - 7 - 8 - 2 - 3 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 12 - 10 - 11 Action order by ID order (1-6) for each player 3 - 1 - 2 - 6 - 2 - 3 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 6 - 4 - 5 - basically the slot order above, since they were arranged in ascending ID order - no match with the above 12 x 0 or 12 x 3 init [hr] There isn't much I can determine from these battles. They seem random, although clearly they're not. The ordering mechanism is still a mystery to me.

Tests already done. That doesn't happen. The ID order is sporadic at best... I think I have a test log at home with 12 x 0 init creatures. Will check and post it as soon as I can

Currently, creatures act in order of initiative. If initiative is the same, PHP decides who goes first. Is this second step alright, or should it be changed to something which can be determined, such as slot number, to name one example?

Aaah... sorry, missed the "could". But yes, it needs to be sorted out simply because it's a game system, and it makes no sense to have PHPs internal scripting mechanisms determine how a game system works. Moreover, this system was at some point meant to be understood, and this becomes impossible when the parameters are no longer a part of the game, but the program it was built in instead. (unless you have knowledge of how that program works, of course) I like the idea referring to multiple such filters. It makes sense that lower VE would imply lower strength. Slots can also contribute to this, if combat is thought to happen as shown: 3 creatures in front, 3 at the back, making the 3 at the back more protected = stronger, in order of slot number perhaps. (4, 5 then 6, followed by 1, 2 and then 3) And yes, slot number is indeed unique and can act as a final filter. (off topic: and yes, this logic does extend to creature action sorting, so then a new topic it is; because the order simply can't be determined in same initiative situations, turning it into a luck based game; aura order CAN be determined, but based on a factor which can't be acquired easily by the other team: "hey, may I know your creature's [insert factor] so I know what to hit you with and win?" :p) P.S.: Random factors already exist: there's random damage, target random, target multiple, some aura effects... don't think we need more randomness around those :p

I'm still confused as to how that sorting actually happens. Two battles with the following ritual: Attacker: 2 Water Guardian I + 2 Dark Archer vs. Defender: 1 Water Guardian I + 3 Dark Archer In Target Strong (damage, so as to not alter strength), WGs from both sides get hit. Now I get it, they're stronger. But, highest ID is picked on the attacker's team. Target Weak, which went after the DAs, in the fight above, hit the lowest ID on the attacker's side and the highest on the defender's side. So why did the happen? After removing a creature type (the WG) from the battle, both Target Weak went for high IDs. After adding a creature a creature type for the attacker's side (2 Hollow Warriors), Target Strong went for the lower ID from attacker, and the highest from defender... I don't see anything deterministic about this >_< You say it's based on the first sorting, then creature Id. Are you referring to CID here, or the creature's actual ID? If it's the latter I can't find a logic behind it. It feels as if it depends on how many types of creatures are present on a team, and that makes no sense to me.

Then might I suggest a second filter, to make it possible to determine by players, and not PHP's mood?

On which part in particular? I'm quite sure the 1st filters for weak/strong are inaccurate compared to their in-game descriptions. So, the CID/ID part?