Myth

Same strength cases are difficult to produce, but there are 6 creatures which can be used to test this. Two, by two, by two. These 3 cases were considered, and all 3 acted in the same manner. An anomaly did come into play with Target Weak/Strong. After the CID filter, I assumed an ID filter would go in effect. Mostly it did, but in some cases, not so much. We had a fight where same strength same CID lead to higher ID getting attacked by Target Strong, then another fight (in which another creature type was added, lower strength - rest were same creatures from previous) which lead to lower ID being targeted. That gave me a "random" impression on the 4th filter used for Strong/Weak. Meaning this: "Strong creatures The creature will target the creature with the highest total amount of attack and defence attributes." Isn't true. Reported and proven. It goes for all stats. :p Now, burst my bubble, because the tests were many. :p

WARNING: information in this particular reply is apparently false ('tis what happens when the basis is wrong to begin with) Very well, then. Targeting follows a few simple filters, one of which I find unnecessary. It begins logically: - weak/strong checks creature total strength (as opposed to the description which states that only attack and defense matter) - dying checks creature VE But these checks are bound to fail at some point, specifically when values are equal. When this happens, Target Dying moves on to compare IDs, which is perfectly understandable. Someone needs to get hit, so let's pick the youngest... but then, Target Weak/Strong move to compare CIDs. Why? By my understanding, a CID is a design number. In no way does it represent a creature's strength. A creature is as strong or weak as it's understood, therefor used in a correct or incorrect manner. This filter, in my opinion, needs to be left out. I would go as far as suggesting it replaced with creature level, or number of creature auras, or move on to compare VE.. and so on. But that would complicate matters. Instead, I suggest it be changed to ID, same as Target Dying. You can't go wrong with that, since IDs are unique, so there would be no need for a 3rd filter (4th, if you count the fact that the creature needs to be alive to be targeted). There can even be a logic behind it. RL: younger = stronger; older = weaker. MD undying vampiric style: younger = weaker; older = stronger. Take your pick, come up with more, whatever. :P (Disclaimer - Information above was attained through lots of tests. Thank you, testers! :P)

Round 1 has begun! I will be stationed at Meeting of the Roads, in No Man's Land, as Mythrandir. Make your way there and if I'm around we may begin. (If I'm not idle but don't reply in chat, send me one of those annoyingly loud PMs :P) I'll do my best to be around as much as possible, but if the fight doesn't take place in the alocated time frame mentioned in the first post, your score for Round 1 will be 0. (or less than the lowest score, in case we get to negative values :P) Round 2 details - Twist! You have 2 options, and one of them comes with bonus points! [log=Option 1]No, this isn't the option which grants bonus points. :P Each of you will hit the following ritual: Profile information: - none required Creature information: - Slot 1: Hollow Warrior, ID840628 - Heal - Dying Targets - Slot 2: Hollow Warrior, ID840629 - Heal - Dying Targets And will need to provide the following amounts of heat: - If you are a member of an Alliance: 180 + X - If you are not a member of an Alliance: 600 + X The first value represents how much heat you would provide under basic conditions (no slider) and X represents how much extra heat your stats will provide. Location: - Meeting of the Roads, No Man's Land[/log] [log=Option 1]Using the elimination method, this must be the option which grants bonus points! :D Changes: - Slider use isn't allowed; - Mythrandir will be the attacker, and will hit each of you with the ritual listed below; (= Alliance status ***hint: affects number of rounds*** becomes irrelevant) - You need to devise and set up a defense to reach the goals listed below. Profile information: - none required Creature information: - Slot 1: Unholy Priest, ID842038 - Martyr - Dying Targets - Slot 2: Water Guardian I, ID841586 - Heal - Strong Targets - Slot 3: Water Guardian I, ID841587 - Heal - Strong Targets - Slot 4: Dark Archer, ID840124 - Weaken Defense - Weak Targets - Slot 5: Dark Archer, ID840125 - Weaken Defense - Weak Targets Goals: 1. Provide Mythrandir with 100 heat. 2. Kill ONLY one of his creatures. Killing more or less than one marks this goal as failed. (Goal number 2 yields 9 additional points for this round = 3 points added to final score) Location: - Meeting of the Roads, No Man's Land[/log] That being said, you have 1 week to get ready. Round 2 begins on Oct 3rd and ends on Oct 9th, 00:00 server time.

Based on those numbers (6-12 and 0-6) it would seem that the refill rate is linear, and perhaps based on spell level (or type). Unless the maximum scene values are proportional to the amounts refilled, in which case it goes back to not knowing if the refilling is linear or %. Did you happen to notice the length of the rain which caused that?

It's DOT so I can't look into it at this point, but I'm guessing it's not just display related. The x2 balance factor might be applied twice separately, once for profile heat gain and again for creature heat gain, effectively doubling creature heat gain one time too many. If that's the case, second x2 should disappear :P

One more thing. Were you in balance at the time of the fight? That would cover your other x2 heat gain :p

I ran across this in some tests as well. One in particular stood out, where I had gained 100 heat, 4 out of my 5 creatures survived, and the heat distribution was 13 heat for each of the surviving creatures. Even if distribution was made among all 5 creatures (dead one included), 100 / 5 is in no way 13 :p (or 14, can't remember)

We've done the tests, came up with some conclusions. Examples might be required at some point in the discussion, not sure about it. I just have some nasty beef with the way it's coded :p So is it alright to name the other filters?

Targeting uses filters to determine who hits who. First and most obvious filter is creature strength. Weak hits the weaker, strong hits the stronger. But in case of same strength, other filters are applied to determine who gets hit. Those are the ones I'm referring to. Also, what Sy said. See here: http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/16717-inaccurateoutdated-information-profile-and-skills-principles-weapon-sets/ :p

May I begin a discussion containing a (or a few) suggestion(s) regarding how the targeting system is set to work? This involves naming its filters, so I'm asking just in case it would be considered spoiler material.

Signups have ended! We have 6 participants (Rophs, Aethon, Nadrolski, Wideberth, Neno Veliki and Mirus) which will be competing for the following prizes: 1st place: 1 x Wish point + 5 x Heat Stone + 2 x Gold Coin 2nd place: 1 x Marksmen, 6 tokens + 2 x Gold Coin 3rd place: 2 x Gold Coin Round 1 details As we only have MP5s competing, these announcements will be much shorter. We'll start off with an easy one. :P [log=Details]Each of you will hit the following ritual: Profile information: - none required Creature information: - Slot 1: Hollow Warrior, ID840628 - Heal - Dying Targets - Slot 2: Hollow Warrior, ID840629 - Heal - Dying Targets And will need to provide the following amounts of heat: - If you are a member of an Alliance: 420 + X - If you are not a member of an Alliance: 1150 + X The first value represents how much heat you would provide under basic conditions (no slider) and X represents how much extra heat your stats will provide. Location: - Meeting of the Roads, No Man's Land[/log] That being said, you have 1 week to get ready. Round 1 begins on Sep 26th and ends on Oct 2nd, 00:00 server time.

From what I've noticed, I think 1 water gets refilled for every full 20 or 30 minutes of rain. It's not entirely clear, but it's the impression it gave me. I've also noticed that the length of rain is different, sometimes even between the same type of rain. This might also be just an impression, but if it is the case, then I'd wager this length depends on spell level.

Retested. First post updated with correct clauses and possible fixes.

Name: Asthir Player ID: 249730

Announcement #5 - Stats (last heads-up/series of hints until the first round will be announced) The first round will depend on your stats as they are at that time. For the next two rounds, I will modify your VE prior the attacks which will count in order to level the field. Each of you will get an estimated value of current VE you'll have available for those two rounds. This will be displayed along with the details of each round, at the appropriate times. (mentioned in the first post) Reason: it's a "precision" test. :p Too much VE will defeat the purpose of what I have in store for the following 2 rounds. For this purpose, you'll need to have one of the following creatures on you: - Heretic Archer I (MB, level 1 archer) - Elemental I (MB/LR, level 2 elemental) I'll use a single target life stealer to adjust your VE as needed. All you'll have to do is set up a defense with one of the above creatures on Weaken Defense, with the slider value I mention to each of you. [hr] 6 days left to sign up!

They fully regenerate because you have enough regen stat, but that's not the case for players with lower stats. :p In any case, I just re-read the token description, and the effect is only active during the fight, so what I said above no longer applies, since I was talking about the creature page which doesn't belong to the fight.

Which doesn't really happen, considering the fact that if that creature doesn't regenerate and you have to manually heal it, the maximum value displayed is still the original value - unless I'm thinking about a different token. (edit: looks like both tokens affecting max VE work this way) Never mind, it happens just as it's described :p

Ok... time to test 299 XD edit: or not :p got what you meant now

Still, why min. 301 and not 300, if that also yields stats? :p

Debunked. 300 VE damage: 301 VE damage: There was no stat gain in any of the fights. Now call me crazy, but those numbers don't make sense to me. Sy gets more VPs for dealing 300 damage than she got for dealing 301 damage. Granted, the difference in dealt damage is 115 VE in the first fight, and 51 in the second. Is there a random VP gain value attributed to very low damage values?

That's what I remember as well :p Thing is, I can't remember if those cases reach that point through in combat healing, slider VE or end of combat regeneration.

Asthir activated on the wrong side of the ceiling, so is now rolling out of the deep like a wrecking ball. :p * Now, Ary's partly correct, the purpose of that number eludes me, and I've never actually tested if the stat gains for 300 VE damage are actually 0, and that 1 point is the edge. But this just made my to do list. (getting a target to 300 total VE is gonna be fun :p) There are no in game announcements which mention this value, when it was set, or why. There are several forum posts where players mention the rule is there, but again, not why. Try checking the code for "Mur notes" :p * As for when it applies, it does indeed apply before the slider. It might even apply before token bonuses, but I'm not sure about that as I've not looked into it. :p

What if it gets max VE doubled?

Yup. The value represents how much % it gets back

Announcement #4 - Creatures As stated before, all considered creatures will be ones available at MP3, only some of which having predictable targeting abilities. Below is a list of the creatures I may or may not use. The fights I rigged only consider the creatures in that list, but you can use whatever you wish if you feel like it will serve the purpose of this tournament. [log='List']Aramor Warrior (Aramor, level 2) Hollow Warrior (Barren Soul, level 2) Heretic Archer II (Heretic Archer I, level 2) Dark Archer (Heretic Archer I, level 3) Air Scout (Egg [bird], level 3) Remains [regular], level 1 --- added Animated Tree I (Remains [regular], level 2) Water Being II (Water Being I, level 2) Water Guardian I (Water Being I, level 3) Unholy Priest (level 1; next level is also obtainable, but takes a very long time to get to)[/log] [hr] Sign-ups end 9 days from now! 7 participants so far; 6 more and a GG Drachorn is added to the prize pool! [hr] EDIT: added a creature to the list