A "kingslayer" medal was awarded ?

[Arkken]

It seems to me that it has always been Mur's stance that you can either take it or you can't, and too bad if it's the latter.

[xrieg]

player<>character
character and its role is played by the player, with character strength depending on how dedicated a player is.
I understand that one would like roles with power and authority to be occupied by 'strong characters'
still.... that would make 'testing for breaking points' looking like an effort to find how much does it take for dedicated player to stop caring about the game. it would appear like gmail managers breaking down the site to check how much will users withstand. it would be more reasonable to test ppl for roles to pick the best character for the role - but nowadays the picture is more 'X may be flawed... but still the best in the lot', pretty few very active 'strong chars'.

[Muratus del Mur]

@Yrth
good you cleared that up.


@Sharazhad
i find your reaction most amuzing since you were never targeted by such tests, yet you cry about rights and such. Anyway, your 'human rights' have nothing to do with your character rights...otherwise you might want to sue me for jailing people or turn them into frogs ....

Excuse me for not having a degree in ..anything at all actually, lol. According to that social standard I am a mediocre imbecile you find everywhere. Am i really?
Last time i checked i was not writing any medical prescriptions or giving any psychology advice and such. Do I need a degree for scouting the human mind in my own way for my own wisdom? My actions go no further from the characters you play and that character is as you pointed out a fraction of your true self. The really sad thing is that from all this it is you that have to learn the most, by 'you' i mean those 'tested'. I learned what i learned, but did you? Failing dramatically or experiencing unexpected turn of events in an online game is the perfect sandbox to learn something about yourself ad the people around you. If you prefer to shut yourself down and point the finger at my crazy experiments..i really wondered why and how you survived md so far.

Rights do not protect you from your own mind..sadly enough. You like to generalize and fit all this in the "crazy scientist" making experiments on "humans" category? Sounds so cool, thank you, but if you really want to understand what I said don't lose yourself in preconceptions.

[Sharazhad]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]Ok; so because I have never been "tested" I should not voice an opinion? That's like saying because I have never been raped I should not raise my voice against it. Don't be stupid. Turning people into frogs in game is one thing, but performing tests or sending out people to find some one's mental breaking point is another From my stand point you are trying to trivialise harassment.[/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][quote] Do I need a degree for scouting the human mind in my own way for my own wisdom? [/quote][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]Actually the last time I checked yeah you do. There is a reason why all research proposals go through an ethics committee. [/i][i]The human mind is a complex thing. Without a degree specialising in it, you are actually playing a dangerous game; because according to me, you don't know what you are doing! [/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]What proof do we have that you will not "harm" your subjects? If someone had a nervous breakdown due to your constant harassment, do you take responsibility for that? Are you willing you pay for the therapy? [/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]According to what you are suggesting any one can write up any experiment, perform it on people and say " Im doing this for my own wisdom". Infact according to your reasoning I could walk up to your house set it on fire and say, "I'm just curious what would happen when a house burns down in Romania". [ FYI I AM NOT GOING TO BURN DOWN MUR’S HOUSE , I WAS USING IT AS AN ANALOGY][/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][font=Arial, sans-serif][quote][/font]​ My actions go no further from the characters you play and that character is as you pointed out a fraction of your true self.[font=Arial, sans-serif][/quote][/font][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]A fraction is a part of a whole, anything from 0.1% to 99.9%, you do not know how much of that person's RL character has been poured into the MD character. Do not make assumptions that the fraction portrayed is a small number. Not everyone has the ability to keep the MD persona separate from the RL persona, and it does not make them lesser humans because they cant.[/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][quote]The really sad thing is that from all this it is you that have to learn the most, by 'you' i mean those 'tested'. I learned what i learned, but did you? Failing dramatically or experiencing unexpected turn of events in an online game is the perfect sandbox to learn something about yourself ad the people around you. If you prefer to shut yourself down and point the finger at my crazy experiments..i really wondered why and how you survived md so far[/quote].[/size]

[size=3][i][color=#008000]I am shocked by your attitude. You really think you are better than the rest of us an feel that the rest of us are all in need of some weird Mur education. Obviously you learnt what you learnt because you are the mastermind behind the experiment, but if those being tested didn't know they were being tested, how where they suppose to know they had to learn something?!?! Perhaps if what they learnt wasnt to your liking then they remain stupid and uneducated? [/color][/i][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]I have not shut myself down, infact if I had not said anything about this then you can say I have shut myself down. [/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][quote]Rights do not protect you from your own mind..sadly enough. You like to generalize and fit all this in the "crazy scientist" making experiments on "humans" category? Sounds so cool, thank you, but if you really want to understand what I said don't lose yourself in preconceptions.[/quote][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]Rights do not protect me from my own mind? Validate that statement with scholarly articles and the like. If you cannot, then that is a statement said by someone who would like to lull his test subjects into a false sense of security. [/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]“Lose myself in preconceptions”....lets see.... If I am speaking from an ethical and scientific background then clearly I must be wrong because hey, Mur knows best.[/i][/color][/size]

[size=3][color=#008000][i]Like I said previously you are gifted with programming skills amongst others, but it doesnt make you better than the rest of us. I respect you as the game creator, but rewarding people for harassment and bullying, playing mind games, na-uh that has taken it too far.[/i][/color][/size]

[color=#696969][i]edited for typos[/i][/color]

Edited January 20, 2012 by Sharazhad

[Liberty4life]

O.o ouu cmon murs experiments were inside of game before game was even playable, its game's core foundation, from very first story line, through roles till dna test thingy, that what is talked in here about kings... thats just specially selected tests, while on larger scale everyone of you is being tested from day 1, and i dont see whats issue here every should be aware of this by now, i got aware of it during mine first week of playin, maybe mur should re-say it somewhere in TOS or someplace where ppl would notice it... but then again...

lol@degree part

@kyphis: no i dont mean jester, i meant on external enemy to land, somethin which suprasingly never happened in md on real scale

oh and just to mention, all your super-market cards irl, facebook profiles, and other crap, all of them are doing tests on you and they never said it, super market cards give ya right to discount, but their real use is to see what each customer is buying and therafore see what to offer to which one, what else he could be interested in, thats way more depper character mapping and it extends to your full self, practically its legal spying you never agreed to, but since ya took card it counts as if you did even if ya arent aware of it, and facebook for example has stuff that can see what ya like and what not, and according to that it does its best to pop up adds with things that ya like, and where exactly user agreed on all that stuff or was even told of it?

so stop the bullshit every other thing you do you are being personality tested/mapped, but in case of super market they make money out of that while mur doesnt

[Sharazhad]

[color=#008000][i]You're missing the point Lib. [/i][/color]
[color=#008000][i]1) It is not right to send someone to "test someone's breaking point" and then award them when they succeed. It encourages bullying and harassment.[/i][/color]
[color=#008000][i]2) It is not right to perform "tests" on someone without their permission. [/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]which leads me to point 3:[/i][/color]
[color=#008000][i]3) If everyone else is doing something wrong, it doesn't automatically make it right. FYI Companies give you the option to check a box to decide whether they can send your information to be part of a marketing scheme.Facebook tells you that when you use whichever Application the information will be used. Its part of the terms and conditions. If you dont like the T's & C's you dont join. Simple.[/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]If Mur designed MD because he was a philosophical student studying behavioural patterns in a controlled environment, that would be a different story; . But that is not the case, this is for his own benefits. And you can be assured that if any other game creator was behaving in the same way my reaction would be just the same. I play games to relax, not to be a pawn in somebody else's game. [/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]Lol who is to say that Mur hasnt designed this as my own test? or your own test? This [...] is bizzare. I am done here.[/i][/color]

Edited January 20, 2012 by dst
Removed swear words

[Liberty4life]

no no no i know very well what i said about companies and facebook, aplications and those marketing schemes (polls), facebook for example connects adds to what you pressed like button for example, companies use cards and thats how they connect each buyer with what he bought, those things not really in TOC

[quote][color=#008000][i]If everyone else is doing something wrong, it doesn't automatically make it right[/i][/color][/quote]

oke thats true


[quote][color=#008000][i]1) It is not right to send someone to "test someone's breaking point" and then award them when they succeed. It encourages bullying and harassment.[/i][/color][/quote]

mur didnt send specific ppl to test it, those ppl did it on their own initiative

[Jubaris]

I agree that certain moral standards should be applied, like you say Sharazhad, but there are few "variables"...

Mur is doing it for his personal benefit? What kind of benefit? Cognition? Isn't it the same benefit as the student that researches human behavior you mentioned?

Bottom line is, this is Mur's game, and he made it clear on various occasions and on the very site that this is an unconventional "game". He is not making the game to make YOU relaxed, and wherever you go, you will be someone's "pawn" in one way or another. When clicking a youtube video, you are someone's "pawn" in achieving higher views number, for example... It's a relative subject.

The problem is when you damage people in a way, then you need to explore the whole situation. Ok, you list psychological experience issues in MD - what, this game has potential to make conflicts between people?! That is what every community has in itself.

This is a game that is supposed to bring experience to people (and experience of those people to the game, meaning Mur). Conflicts are IMPORTANT part of experience.
If Mur encouraged certain conflict-making, then it is his decision to do so - it is your decision to accept it or not, to conclude is this the last line that couldn't be crossed or not quite yet?

There is a certain inconvenience when you take Mur's decision to high standard and get offended when he thinks differently than you. He is not perfect nor best of us all, and this was supposed to be a community of intellectual independent people, that know how to avoid identity "mass-production" that is so frequent in reality, yet there are many people here, experienced too, that take Mur's words for granted and use it as some kind of axiom, and eventually get shocked that one of those is contradicting to their own logic - then mental chaos emerges! x)

[Seigheart]

Okay, if Mur told Eon, dst, and Granos to go harasss someone until they have a nervous breakdown, then we have a problem. But from what I see is he saw them put a strain on those in MD.

For all I know, I could have been one tested. See dst vs Seigheart crap. Does that mean Mur told dst to do it? No. He didn't. That's just dst. Eon was just being Eon. And Granos was just being Granos. Mur was rewarding them for being themselves and actively shaking things up. And to be honest, because I adapted, and survived, I was made into a better person. Yeah, I had to learn to deal with an unseen opponent in an online game. I deal with people in RL in a very confrontational way. Without MD, it would have taken me longer(if at all) to learn how to indirectly assault someone.


A saying comes to mind for this "If you can't handle the heat, get out of the Oven."

Or my favourite saying, Nut up, or Shut up.

[Sharazhad]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1327067730' post='101359']
Okay, if Mur told Eon, dst, and Granos to go harasss someone until they have a nervous breakdown, then we have a problem.
[/quote]

[color=#008000][i]I'll just paste the annoucement:[/i][/color]
[color=#CCCCCC][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Ann. 2172 - [2012-01-17 14:27:12 - Stage 11][/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]A "kingslayer" medal was awarded retroactively to the following players[u] for classified missions of obvious nature [/u][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]. These include [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]actions[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]recent but also ancient events where [u]pressure was put on certain leading characters to test their strength or find their breaking point[/u]:[/font][/color][b] *dst*, Granos, Eon [/b]

[color=#008000][i]Enough said.[/i][/color]

[Seigheart]

That says absolutely nothing but the fact that they happened.

Doesn't say who, or how the mission was performed, just that it was. For all you know, it could have been Firs sending the orders to have Lifeline quit.

[Muratus del Mur]

MagicDuel, the game, [b]started as a forum[/b] with MY mind games. ..a FORUM..

I could take you apart bit by bit and nullify each of your arguments but the thing is..why? You made up your mind and i have no intention to fight you in any way, i am just sad of this unexpected reaction. Even if you don't see it so, i value you as a player, you and all that passed a certain point in my mad invisible mind labyrinth.


Your "rights" allow you to close the window and quit....how could an uneducated punk like me, without a diploma, possibly deny your precious rights. Anyway, if you want to stay and amaze yourself of my suspicious and evil experiments, remember i am not the type to hold grudges against anyone for speaking up their mind...i am just tired to fight your particular type of mentality.

That was offending, in case i was to subtle.

Blame it on the drinks i had today. OMG you realise that your fragile mind is probed by someone that drinks? its like performing brain surgery on someone after having some late saturday night fun..oomg, i am such a monster, please excuse me.or not.

[Maebius]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1327105090' post='101530']
Even if you don't see it so, i value you as a player,
[/quote]

Yay, Mur loves us all, see? He is like God.
.....I'm a-feared now.
I learned a new forum sig line though, here, which was nice.

(I see your point, Sharazhad, but can't personally agree with it. .. It's like Eon, like it or leave it. Thank you mur for your clarification)

[Mya Celestia]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]How the announcement was worded may be what is causing the issue. [/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]While I was a bit annoyed with the announcement in the beginning, I took a step back and looked at what it actually said. The three involved each have their own ability to test people's strength/breaking point in a certain way. We all have our own ways of testing people both in and out of games. We don't always tell people when they're being tested either. Rewards and punishments generally go with the completion of the tests. It's whether we turn the tests into stepping stones or stumbling blocks that are the real results.[/font][/color]

[Krioni]

I wanted to go ahead and toss my own opinion on the matter and in the "testing" in general debate. Even if no one cares ^^

I agree a lot with Mya, I was upset at first at the content of the announcement, but I reasoned and told myself that medals on their own shouldn't be seen as a reward, but as a sign to what type of person is wearing the medal, as well as what they have done. Seeing it that way, I was much less upset, because I could see the kingslayer for what it was. This person, through some action or mission, participated in testing, breaking, or "slaying" a king, though we may not know the details. Same goes for other medals. I see a Boss Head Competition medal and I know this person fights a lot, or has spent enough time studying the combat system to truly understand it and win in fierce competition. This can apply to any medal. That conclusion made me far less upset about the matter.

Secondly, on testing. Honestly, whenever I am in any situation where I feel tested, or in a trying situation for myself, I try and see two things. One, if I react in some way I did not predict, I would try and learn more about myself through the situation. Why did I react that way? Do I think it right or wrong? Can I improve? Second, if I realize I am being tested, I like to try and use the situation to learn about the tester. As Socrates would say, if an action, being tested, is being performed upon me in a certain way, then there is someone who is acting and performing that testing upon me in that certain way. I like to find what that "way" is, and see if it tells me something about the tester as a person.

My opinions ^^

[DarkRaptor]

I'm quite suprised with the amount of people who somehow seem "affected" by this medals/announcement content... come on MD it's a game!
.. can you imagine.. maybe the medals attribution was a reaction test by itself!